Has Covid changed your political allegience?

[John Luxton]

Tt removing the Tories from power is the prime imperative over all other considerations.

Very strange attitude to take given that Labour is more pro lockdown / restrictions than the Tories. Do you really want UK to become the same as NZ just to get the Tories out.

Reform might not be quite everyone's cup of tea on other fronts which I have no problems accepting but let us please deal with the most pressing issue most of us have faced and let us get back to normality first. Then we can go back to traditional "Tom and Jerry" politics.

 

[Horizon22]

To answer the question, no my allegiance hasn't changed. Many of my suspicions regarding what the parties would do in response to Covid came true, so I am happy with my choice.

 

[yorkie]

I've said this before for other reasons (about Brexit) and I'll say it again here, be careful who you vote for especially when it comes to single issue reasonings. ..

Sorry but Covid restrictions have made me so angry that if any election was held any time soon I would be prepared to vote for a party purely based on that single issue, in order to send a clear message to the other parties. I don't really care at this point if that's the right thing to do or not; a powerful message needs to be sent.

Feel free to provide any number of reasons why you think that's a bad idea but that is what I would do right now regardless of however many reasons not to do that anyone can provide.

And if the parties that might otherwise have my support don't want people like me to do that, then they need to review their policies pretty damn quick.

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Very strange attitude to take given that Labour is more pro lockdown / restrictions than the Tories. Do you really want UK to become the same as NZ just to get the Tories out.

I think you misunderstood @quantinghome 's views; they have very different views to you and I on lockdowns.

Many Labour supporters are unhappy that the Tories didn't / won't go far enough on restrictions; remember Labour are the party for people who want us to have never stricter restrictions and lockdowns, which would have been even more devastating and further delay the onset of endemic equilibrium.

 

[nw1]

Sorry but Covid restrictions have made me so angry that if any election was held any time soon I would be prepared to vote for a party purely based on that single issue, in order to send a clear message to the other parties. I don't really care at this point if that's the right thing to do or not; a powerful message needs to be sent.

Feel free to provide any number of reasons why you think that's a bad idea but that is what I would do right now regardless of however many reasons not to do that anyone can provide.

And if the parties that might otherwise have my support don't want people like me to do that, then they need to review their policies pretty damn quick.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Dec 2021 ==


I think you misunderstood @quantinghome 's views; they have very different views to you and I on lockdowns.

Many Labour supporters are unhappy that the Tories didn't / won't go far enough on restrictions; remember Labour are the party for people who want us to have never stricter restrictions and lockdowns, which would have been even more devastating and further delay the onset of endemic equilibrium.

And why are Labour like that? That's the puzzle. Perhaps an inability to accept that lockdown might have side effects.

As I've said multiple times, the libertarian left are politically homeless right now. Given that, AFAIK, all of tomorrow's rebels appear to be Tories, there is not a single MP taking a libertarian-left stance right now.

 

[zero]

No, covid has not changed my political allegiance. I'm not happy with how the Tories have managed the pandemic, and I'm not happy with how Labour would probably have managed it, but this is not a major consideration for me. I appreciate that many posters here have been badly affected by restrictions but they have only been a minor annoyance for me, so they won't influence my future votes.

I would never have voted for Labour before the pandemic, and other events have meant that it would be difficult for me to ever vote for the Tories again, though I did vote for them before 2019.

For the 2019 election I moved to a new constituency where the main contenders were Tory and Lib Dem. Although I wanted the Tories to win overall, I despised my Tory candidate and liked my Lib Dem candidate, who won. Since we don't get a say in anything but our local MP (and I doubt there will be any more referendums soon), I would be glad to vote for my Lib Dem MP again.

 

[Scotrail314209]

My allegiance in Scotland has completely changed. I used to be extremely pro-SNP back when Scotland was doing a good job at handling COVID, but now my allegiance has shifted over to Lib Dems.

I'm sick of Miss Sturgeon popping up on my tv every so often to ramble about COVID and how we are all so sick of it bla de bla.

 

[MikeWM]

As I've said multiple times, the libertarian left are politically homeless right now. Given that, AFAIK, all of tomorrow's rebels appear to be Tories, there is not a single MP taking a libertarian-left stance right now.

Corbyn and his remaining followers (probably 20 or so?) will vote against vaccine passports.

Unfortunately he has been poor in his approach to the rest of restrictions, but at least he sees the clear danger of 'passports'.

I do find myself idly wondering how Tony Benn would have responded if he were still alive. I'm sure he'd be opposed to 'passports' too, but he may also have put forward a rather better approach to how to cope with Covid than his 'heirs' have done. Or maybe he would have disappointed me too, so perhaps better not to know.

 

[Scotrail12]

I was only 18 at the 2019 election so I didn't have any long term political leanings but I doubt I'd have voted The Brexit Party then whereas it's current iteration Reform UK is currently my choice so I'd say it has changed who I support.

It's even changed my opinion of those in the political media, I'd have been shocked to have ever agreed with people like Julia Hartley-Brewer & Dan Wootton but they've both been very outspoken against restrictions so it definitely has changed my opinion of some and maybe converted me to their way of thinking a bit more.

 

[35B]

But quite often parties use an issue of the day in campaigns.

What I see about their policies basically low tax, small state, removal of nanny statism, and no more C19 restrictions tick all the boxes for me. They would do even if if C19 was not an issue.

As for the Health Service the NHS has along with the even worse Social Care system become a sacred cow that has long needed to see the vet if not the taxidermist.

I don't see it as an asset worth protecting in its current form just to save it, when saving it ruins our lives and the economy.

Whatever its future is needs to be open to debate - I think a bigger mix of private and state with some upfront charges as per the Irish model is what is required.

But lets not worry about the NHS policy of Reform now lets just get through this C19 mess, get back to normal and then see what Reform have to say policy wise. If you don't like what their policy towards the NHS is you can always vote for someone else.

Lets deal with the most pressing issue first.

I've no idea how I'll vote at the next GE, but I spoiled my ballot at the last council election.

However, I am certain that I would never vote for Reform. It represents a type of populist, lowest common denominator, politics that I regard as profoundly dangerous. It is about demagoguery unattached to any ability to deliver, and I am absolutely certain that they should never be allowed near any kind of political power. The structure of the party with two con artist spivs as the owners, and the scams they have pulled to get would be candidates to pay signing up fees to even be considered, should be enough to deter any sensible person from touching them with the proverbial bargepole.

 

[43066]

I've been a lifelong Tory, and whilst I was not wanting Brexit, I stuck with them after that.

But now I will never vote for them again. Labour are worse. Lib Dems were always my backup vote, but their stance on this has mostly been the very opposite of liberal.

If there was an election tomorrow I would probably go for Reform.

Yep that’s pretty much my position, albeit I was pro Brexit (I’m sure we all fondly remember the innocent time two years ago when that’s all we had to argue about )!

Johnson is an absolute joke and the Tories are in a shocking state (albeit kudos to the backbenchers who are rebelling this week). Labour are worse of course, if Corbyn had won in 2019 I suspect we would have spent much of the last two years in lockdown. Reform are looking tempting. I’m actually surprised they haven’t made more of an attempt to capitalise on the authoritarian Covid restrictions which have alienated so many of us from the traditional political establishment.

 

[island]

I've voted Conservative as long as I've lived in this country, but have moved away given the utter dysfunctional mismanagement of the COVID situation, amongst other things.

I put Monster Raving Loony Party in the poll (and voted Count Binface in the mayor election) but any party who would permanently do away with masks and ban businesses from requiring them would be a shoo-in.

 

[Welly]

I'd rather have a proper raving loony in charge than that clown!

 

[Scotrail314209]

I'd rather have a proper raving loony in charge than that clown!

Actually, let's just elect Count Binface.

He'll get us out of this!

 

[brad465]

I accept this isn't always possible (given different party allegiances), but has anyone actually written to their MP if they're pro restriction demanding they vote against them or else they won't get your vote? If for example Labour MPs got enough letters voicing concerns about their stance, maybe they'll change their ways, and/or evaluate the situation better. One man demanding Starmer get out of his pub isn't going to cut it.

 

[John Luxton]

I accept this isn't always possible (given different party allegiances), but has anyone actually written to their MP if they're pro restriction demanding they vote against them or else they won't get your vote? If for example Labour MPs got enough letters voicing concerns about their stance, maybe they'll change their ways, and/or evaluate the situation better. One man demanding Starmer get out of his pub isn't going to cut it.

I have written to my constituency MP Liverpool Riverside (Labour) and she is of the opinion vaccine passports are divisive and will not support them but she appears to be in favour of other measures when i extracted a comment from her last year. The comment on vaccine passports was a week or so ago.

 

[HST43257]

I’m not sure how anyone can support anything other than the Monster Raving (all too relevant with No.10 business at the moment) Loony Party!

 

[NorthOxonian]

I accept this isn't always possible (given different party allegiances), but has anyone actually written to their MP if they're pro restriction demanding they vote against them or else they won't get your vote? If for example Labour MPs got enough letters voicing concerns about their stance, maybe they'll change their ways, and/or evaluate the situation better. One man demanding Starmer get out of his pub isn't going to cut it.

I have two MPs (one at home and one at uni), and both have vocally opposed vaccine passports. They're from the Corbyn wing of Labour and the Lib Dems respectively, and both of those groups have confirmed they'll be voting against.

Both tend to be in favour of more restrictions (my uni MP in particular was a vocal advocate of "zero Covid"), but I'm glad they're standing up against this.

 

[quantinghome]

I think you misunderstood @quantinghome 's views; they have very different views to you and I on lockdowns.

Well, I believe lockdowns are a draconian restriction which were a necessary evil prior to mass vaccination. I don't believe they are now justified. They would only become justified if we were to see a large increase in fatalities of the same order we saw in March 2020 or January 2021. Is that really much different to your view?

 

[LOL The Irony]

I would have to vote for the Reform Party as they're opposed to all restrictions and are pro freedom. Worrying amount of people saying they'll vote labour, who would have us under even stricter restrictions.

 

[bengley]

I have always voted Labour. I will never vote tory and this whole farce and all the clear corruption has only reinforced that.

I will no longer consider Labour worthy of my vote. To be honest I feel politically homeless and will probably not vote, much like I didn't at the locals in May

 

[quantinghome]

So you believe that removing the Tories is more important than loosing your liberties?

There's a lot more to our liberties than temporary restrictions in a pandemic. The Tories' other policies have removed more liberties from me and others in this country than any government in my lifetime, are planning more, and unlike covid restrictions they are designed to be permanent.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Dec 2021 ==

I would have to vote for the Reform Party as they're opposed to all restrictions and are pro freedom. Worrying amount of people saying they'll vote labour, who would have us under even stricter restrictions.

Labour's message is: Boosters, boosters and more boosters. Yes, vote with Plan B, but mostly: boosters. Labour is not advocating for 'even stricter restrictions'.

 

[py_megapixel]

It scares me that people are genuinely considering voting for Reform, whose website is full of nothing more than vague visionary ramblings and policy statements from cloud-cuckoo land. I guess it just goes to show how crap the current leadership is.

Apparently other parties focus too much on "woke nonsense". I might write to them and tell them I think they focus too much on right-wing populist nonsense.

 

[John Luxton]

I have always voted Labour. I will never vote tory and this whole farce and all the clear corruption has only reinforced that.

I will no longer consider Labour worthy of my vote. To be honest I feel politically homeless and will probably not vote, much like I didn't at the locals in May

Everyone should vote. Too many people fought over the years for the right to vote.

I am not a great fan of compulsion but I do think it should be compulsory to either attend a polling station or cast a postal vote.

For those who find it difficult to make a decision and option of "vote withheld" could be made. It would be interesting to even count these numbers to see if there is any pattern to withheld votes around the country. Some areas more than others perhaps?

The alternative to voting would a £100 voting declination fee - please note NOT a fine as that would also be in an option for those who do not want to make a "vote withheld" mark.

If applied for BEFORE the election the fee would be reduced to £25.00 - All fees after admin costs being donated to a national charity - no profit in it for the Government!

 

[Peterthegreat]

Everyone should vote. Too many people fought over the years for the right to vote.

I am not a great fan of compulsion but I do think it should be compulsory to either attend a polling station or cast a postal vote.

For those who find it difficult to make a decision and option of "vote withheld" could be made. It would be interesting to even count these numbers to see if there is any pattern to withheld votes around the country. Some areas more than others perhaps?

The alternative to voting would a £100 voting declination fee - please note NOT a fine as that would also be in an option for those who do not want to make a "vote withheld" mark.

If applied for BEFORE the election the fee would be reduced to £25.00 - All fees after admin costs being donated to a national charity - no profit in it for the Government!

So you don't like restrictions - freedom of choice
but you want to make voting compulsory - no freedom of choice

 

[43066]

It scares me that people are genuinely considering voting for Reform, whose website is full of nothing more than vague visionary ramblings and policy statements from cloud-cuckoo land. I guess it just goes to show how crap the current leadership is.

Apparently other parties focus too much on "woke nonsense". I might write to them and tell them I think they focus too much on right-wing populist nonsense.

As a left winger I’m sure you are scared by reform and the fact their appeal seems to be increasing rapidly. I know quite a few people who are considering voting for them or have already done so in their Brexit Party guise. They are a new party and have come a long way I’m a short time. Richard Tice speaks a lot of sense and most of what’s written on their website also appeals to me. I haven’t seen anything “from cloud cuckoo land” - by contrast that’s where the Tories and Labour appear to be living in supporting ever stricter restrictions.

 

[John Luxton]

It scares me that people are genuinely considering voting for Reform, whose website is full of nothing more than vague visionary ramblings and policy statements from cloud-cuckoo land. I guess it just goes to show how crap the current leadership is.

Apparently other parties focus too much on "woke nonsense". I might write to them and tell them I think they focus too much on right-wing populist nonsense.

Many parties started off with vague promises in their early days no doubt. The important thing is to break the mould of British Politics. (Wasn't that the SDP slogan?) Why the negativity towards populism? As from its very description is that not what the people want? Or do you think people should be told what to do by their betters - i.e. the established politicians and system.

Surely we want change and at the moment any change from the status quo would be welcome.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Dec 2021 ==

So you don't like restrictions - freedom of choice
but you want to make voting compulsory - no freedom of choice

I am suggesting freedom of choice a £25.00 per year option to opt out of all political elections. Call it a facilitation fee. I was very careful not to use the word fine as I would not want to see people fined as such for not voting.

 

[Peterthegreat]

Many parties started off with vague promises in their early days no doubt. The important thing is to break the mould of British Politics. (Wasn't that the SDP slogan?) Why the negativity towards populism? As from its very description is that not what the people want? Or do you think people should be told what to do by their betters - i.e. the established politicians and system.

Surely we want change and at the moment any change from the status quo would be welcome.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Dec 2021 ==


I am suggesting freedom of choice a £25.00 per year option to opt out of all political elections. Call it a facilitation fee. I was very careful not to use the word fine as I would not want to see people fined as such for not voting.

Ok then a £100 "facilitation" fee to opt out of vaccinations.

 

[py_megapixel]

Why the negativity towards populism? As from its very description is that not what the people want?

The fundamental problems with populism, in my opinion, are twofold. First, it treats everyone as if they have an equally well-informed opinion on everything - which they don't - and so the opinions of the actual experts are devalued and decisions are liable to be made without properly taking things into account. Secondly, it is a great way for a government to become excessively focused on short-term measures - "crowd pleasers" if you will - to win the next election, rather than doing what is best long term.

An example is rail electrification. A populist view is to cancel it because the average member of the public won't see an immediate improvement to their personal quality of life by spending money on that, because the vast majority of the public are quite poorly informed on how the railway network functions. A pragmatic view is to educate people better on why it does, ultimately, benefit people indirectly, to a greater extent than (for example) a small tax cut would.

We're seeing this now, with Reform's view on HS2. They are echoing the general public sentiment that it only benefits a few big rich cities and everyone else will be worse off for it, when that is not even remotely the case, as has been explained ad-nauseum on these forums for a long time now.

 

[43066]

The fundamental problems with populism, in my opinion, are twofold. First, it treats everyone as if they have an equally well-informed opinion on everything - which they don't - and so the opinions of the actual experts are devalued and decisions are liable to be made without properly taking things into account. Secondly, it is a great way for a government to become excessively focused on short-term measures - "crowd pleasers" if you will - to win the next election, rather than doing what is best long term.

But a lot of “experts” are also driven by politics - SAGE being a perfect example.

I’m afraid part of living in a democracy is accepting that people will vote for things for (what you consider to be) stupid reasons. The patronising and sneering idea that the population should bow and scrape to so called “experts” is exactly what drove Brexit, Trump etc.

 

[Merseysider]

Hell would freeze over before I ever voted Tory.

But Labour appear completely spineless at the moment and would probably have us in a worse place for restrictions given the chance.

Could never vote LibDem as their broken promise is part of the reason I owe the government £36k in university fees, which they’ll probably not fully recuperate, but it’s the principle.

So Green it is.