Covid restrictions causing record levels of self harming

[Ianigsy]

My cousin’s stepson will be one of the deaths due to alcohol abuse - in his mid-forties and having suffered for most of his adult life with mental health issues and alcoholism, he’d settled down in recent years and was working as a market trader until one day there was no market. In that situation it becomes very easy to sit at home all day with a bottle of vodka.

 

[Cdd89]

I don’t know how extreme lockdown advocates — who effectively chose to “divert the trolley” toward these outcomes, while claiming there was nobody down this side of the track — can live with themselves. Even if they did save more lives than they cost, deaths caused by action should be valued higher.

Furthermore, while some restrictions (like closing theatres, nightclubs, bars, restaurants, and restricting large gatherings) undoubtedly saved more lives than they cost, others pursued in the ideology of a “proper lockdown” almost certainly cost more lives than they saved.

Criminalising leaving the front door, international travel restrictions, attempting to put limits on exercise, and closing outdoor venues are among the unforgivable ones; as well as all restrictions where they continued for longer than the immediate period of healthcare overwhelm.

Even something seemingly innocuous like cloth face coverings may cost more lives than they saved, as they have a relatively small effect on viral spread, but deprive someone on the edge of an empathetic smile, increase social isolation, scare people off public transport and onto riskier modes, remind people of a depressing pandemic, make commutes or workplaces slightly less pleasant, make those unable to comply feel like pariahs, etc.

 

[Drogba11CFC]

I don’t know how extreme lockdown advocates — who effectively chose to “divert the trolley” toward these outcomes, while claiming there was nobody down this side of the track — can live with themselves. Even if they did save more lives than they cost, deaths caused by action should be valued higher.

Furthermore, while some restrictions (like closing theatres, nightclubs, bars, restaurants, and restricting large gatherings) undoubtedly saved more lives than they cost, others pursued in the ideology of a “proper lockdown” almost certainly cost more lives than they saved.

Criminalising leaving the front door, international travel restrictions, attempting to put limits on exercise, and closing outdoor venues are among the unforgivable ones; as well as all restrictions where they continued for longer than the immediate period of healthcare overwhelm.

Even something seemingly innocuous like cloth face coverings may cost more lives than they saved, as they have a relatively small effect on viral spread, but deprive someone on the edge of an empathetic smile, increase social isolation, scare people off public transport and onto riskier modes, remind people of a depressing pandemic, make commutes or workplaces slightly less pleasant, make those unable to comply feel like pariahs, etc.

I want every single one of them, including the likes of Colin Lockdown and zerocovidzoe on twitter, serving whole life tariffs by the end of next year.

 

[yorkie]

Anyone who tries to question the scale of the problem by asking for data is clearly not interested in listening to people who have relevant experience.

I've seen first hand how badly some young people have been affected by restrictions; I therefore do not need to look at statistics. I have no time for people who try to deny the obvious or who feel the need to look at data before they will accept the clear and obvious harms lockdowns have caused. I've also spoken directly with counsellors who say the mental health situation is now worse than it has ever been.

The negative effects of lockdowns and restrictions such as the punitive "bubble" system are, in some cases, with us for the long term, though many people are working very hard to try to minimise the effects, but the threat of further restrictions does not help at all. Some people have suffered more than others and I think some yeargroups have suffered more than others.

I want every single one of them, including the likes of Colin Lockdown and zerocovidzoe on twitter, serving whole life tariffs by the end of next year.

I've not heard of the former, but the latter appears to be a satirical account, designed to take the mickey out of the hysterical people who demanded more and more restrictions.

It's hard to tell because the likes of Ding, Pagel, Greenhalgh and their ilk are so utterly bonkers and so far removed from the views of ordinary people, it can be difficult to distinguish their real opinions from satirical versions of them.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I still don't know how I kept my sanity together. First lockdown, fine, I waited it out thanks to TS, FM20 and Promods. Then finally, freedom. Three steam tours and I could watch Winchester City again.

And then SAGE barged in again. Lockdown 2, and I'm told that I'm at high risk of redundancy due to changing circumstances (my job was office-based). November passes, and finally we're free again. And then SAGE barge in again. Christmas comes and goes with Colin Lockdown (who should be in prison) pushing for permanent lockdowns. I start going on long walks and losing weight. Finally there's a way out, but then Jenny Jones demands that what little civil liberties I have left be trampled into the dirt, thankfully getting nowhere. Fortunately my mental health holds, and I finally get back to work, and go to Scotland on holiday trying to ignore the looming redundancy. Even more fortunately, I manage to evade it by getting another job, and it looks like I got out the other side.

And now those little Hitlers at SAGE have barged in once more...

For much of the Pandemic I have had to work harder than usual with cleaning on top of normal work. So i perhaps saw it as a different kind of ordeal to seclusion.

Indeed, we unlocked earlier than our neighbours, and seem to be doing generally better. I feel that pattern would extend to earlier in the year too.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Dec 2021 ==

Who would have thought that all those predictions of "if we have restrictions for too long we'll get a big exit wave" from back in the early days of March 2020 would turn out to be true.

You know I am really having trouble distinguishing between 2020 and 2021 !. All I remember is the Pandemic causing gradual tightening of restrictions through Autumn 2020. First it was only 6 days allowed for Christmas then reduced to only 1. We cancelled our Christmas plans early on as it looked unlikely and I posted the presents in October 2020 to avoid the rush !.

Read what I wrote - I do not deny cause and effect, or seriousness. I have seen the data on educational outcomes at the school I’m a governor at; I know the impact on my children and their peers. I question the relative proportions, and the conclusions that follow.

You strongly criticise government policy on Covid for the lack of evidence of effect proportionate to the costs, yet here you argue that there cannot and should not be any other consideration than the mental health issues reported. They are two sides of the same coin.

I think we do need to know the actual numbers. We also do not know how many more deaths there would have been with no lockdown at all (assumed to be many).

I don’t know how extreme lockdown advocates — who effectively chose to “divert the trolley” toward these outcomes, while claiming there was nobody down this side of the track — can live with themselves. Even if they did save more lives than they cost, deaths caused by action should be valued higher.

Furthermore, while some restrictions (like closing theatres, nightclubs, bars, restaurants, and restricting large gatherings) undoubtedly saved more lives than they cost, others pursued in the ideology of a “proper lockdown” almost certainly cost more lives than they saved.

Criminalising leaving the front door, international travel restrictions, attempting to put limits on exercise, and closing outdoor venues are among the unforgivable ones; as well as all restrictions where they continued for longer than the immediate period of healthcare overwhelm.

Even something seemingly innocuous like cloth face coverings may cost more lives than they saved, as they have a relatively small effect on viral spread, but deprive someone on the edge of an empathetic smile, increase social isolation, scare people off public transport and onto riskier modes, remind people of a depressing pandemic, make commutes or workplaces slightly less pleasant, make those unable to comply feel like pariahs, etc.

Outdoor venues should have been a risk worth taking.

As for masks. I saw them as a cheap and easy way of reducing other restrictions. Better to engage with someone badly (no face) than to sit at home alone. I do not see enough wearing of masks so I fear it means this winter will be another lockdown.

Overall - Let us not forget though that the real culprit is.... Covid-19. Granted how we have coped with it will cause debate for decades. Also how some were hypocritical will, I hope, come back to haunt them. I can accept mistakes were being made BUT when people are expected to make sacrifices and those telling us to make these sacrifices then do not make the same sacrifices I get very cynical.

 

[yorkie]

As for masks. I saw them as a cheap and easy way of reducing other restrictions.

Can you please discuss this in another thread, where I will debunk your claims comprehensively.

Better to engage with someone badly (no face) than to sit at home alone. I do not see enough wearing of masks so I fear it means this winter will be another lockdown.

Absolutely false statement, but one for another thread, not this one!

Overall - Let us not forget though that the real culprit is.... Covid-19....

I will resist any attempts to deflect attention from those who called for punitive measures which have been to the detriment of young people. Those who called for them can be forgiven providing they apologise for them but we must accept that wrong decisions were made before we can move on.

 

[Yew]

Overall - Let us not forget though that the real culprit is.... Covid-19. Granted how we have coped with it will cause debate for decades. Also how some were hypocritical will, I hope, come back to haunt them. I can accept mistakes were being made BUT when people are expected to make sacrifices and those telling us to make these sacrifices then do not make the same sacrifices I get very cynical.

I disagree, the fault lies with those who have called for the departure from conventional epidemiological thinking, without a scrap of real world evidence their restrictions work, no cost benefit analysis, and no exit plan.

 

[Eyersey468]

I disagree, the fault lies with those who have called for the departure from conventional epidemiological thinking, without a scrap of real world evidence their restrictions work, no cost benefit analysis, and no exit plan.

I agree 100%

 

[adc82140]

I want every single one of them, including the likes of Colin Lockdown and zerocovidzoe on twitter, serving whole life tariffs by the end of next year.

The Colin Lockdown account has been taken down, so I call spoof on that one too.

 

[brad465]

There does seem to be a complete lack of empathy among many who demand more restrictions, with regards to not understanding the challenges different people experience as a result of restrictions. The ones who annoy me by far the most are the ones who claim things like "cancer isn't contagious", or dismiss mental health by saying things that's not as bad as dying from covid. First of all, there are other causes of death that are contagious, like flu and pneumonia. Second, I would regard depression and other mental health problems as technically being contagious in some ways, as it can easily be caused by the sight of others with depression and/or certain people's actions upon those who then get depression.

Meanwhile anyone who claims mental health conditions like self harm and/or depression are trivial or not as bad as something like covid obviously have never experienced anything like depression and/or self harm, and claiming illnesses like cancer are not contagious is an insult to anyone who has experienced it, as to do so effectively trivialises the illness.

 

[Drogba11CFC]

Point this out and you get accused of not caring, "not seeing the bigger picture" and other bollocks.

 

[brad465]

Point this out and you get accused of not caring, "not seeing the bigger picture" and other bollocks.

Which is of course ironic as they are usually the ones who are not seeing the bigger picture.

 

[Eyersey468]

Point this out and you get accused of not caring, "not seeing the bigger picture" and other bollocks.

Which is of course ironic as they are usually the ones who are not seeing the bigger picture.

Completely agree

 

[Bikeman78]

Not just self harm. Arthur Labinjo-Hughes sprang to mind when I saw this thread. Had he been going to school, the evil people wouldn't have got away with it. How many other children were locked in with abusive people for weeks on end?

 

[Bayum]

This was happening long before COVID. CAMHS have had funding issues year after year due to lack of support and input from government. COVID has worsened mental health but government have consistently made the problem worse for many years up to this point.

 

[yorkie]

Covid restrictions have massively worsened the mental health crisis. The scale of the problem is far bigger than pre-Covid.

Those who called for and implemented punitive restrictions on young people (which were never for their benefit) need to apologise and admit they were wrong.

 

[Bayum]

Covid restrictions have massively worsened the mental health crisis. The scale of the problem is far bigger than pre-Covid.

Those who called for and implemented punitive restrictions on young people (which were never for their benefit) need to apologise and admit they were wrong.

But if funding had been in place prior to this, we'd be able to help support the number of people that are now in dire straits with their mental health.

 

[bramling]

But if funding had been in place prior to this, we'd be able to help support the number of people that are now in dire straits with their mental health.

Would you say it’s okay for someone to be raped, so long as there’s funding to support them afterwards?

 

[Eyersey468]

But if funding had been in place prior to this, we'd be able to help support the number of people that are now in dire straits with their mental health.

That is a fair point, the government should have realised the toll restrictions would have on people's mental state and been more careful with messaging.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Dec 2021 ==

Would you say it’s okay for someone to be raped, so long as there’s funding to support them afterwards?

I agree with you as well, it is not OK for someone to be raped. As I said above I think if the government and media had been more careful with messaging the situation re peoples mental health may not have been quite so bad. We were telling children they will kill their granny if they hug them and then there was the appalling look then in the eyes adverts. Whoever sanctioned those should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[bramling]

That is a fair point, the government should have realised the toll restrictions would have on people's mental state and been more careful with messaging.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Dec 2021 ==


I agree with you as well, it is not OK for someone to be raped. As I said above I think if the government and media had been more careful with messaging the situation re peoples mental health may not have been quite so bad. We were telling children they will kill their granny if they hug them and then there was the appalling look then in the eyes adverts. Whoever sanctioned those should be ashamed of themselves.

Absolutely. There’s little (*) evidence of any thought having been given to the effects on people at all, and that is disgusting.

Indeed, to make matters worse they’ve been busy playing politics at times, not least with London. As I’ve said before I have no time for Khan, but the government should rise above playing cheap politics.

* I say little, simply because Whitty has mentioned it a couple of times, but only very much in passing.

 

[yorkie]

But if funding had been in place prior to this, we'd be able to help support the number of people that are now in dire straits with their mental health.

Where do you get all these counsellors from? Who trains them? Who pays for it (presumably the suggestion is we just invent money leading to hyperinflation)?

During the lockdowns, people who were in a position to help young people in poor mental health were often not able to see anyone to seek help; people were actively denied help.

The bubble system caused huge problems; entire year groups were denied all fun activities at school for a whole year. Students were denied the opportunity to easily make friends at their new schools. Students were denied the ability to make or maintain any friendships with anyone not in their bubble.

Every student, including those who had no mental health concerns at all, has been affected in some way. Some much more than others. You can't simply undo this by printing a load of money to pay for counselling.

The restrictions were wrong. I can forgive people for closing the schools initially (even though that was wrong) due to the unknown factor but keeping them closed so long was wrong. Closing them in 2021 was wrong. The bubble system and bans on extra-curricular clubs and other restrictions was wrong. The damage caused cannot simply be waved away by inventing money and creating more debt.

Yes the system should be better funded but the problems should not have been allowed to become so acute in the first place and those who called for, supported and implemented such restrictions need to stop making excuses, stop deflecting from the real issues, and admit they were wrong. I would have a lot of respect for someone who admits they were wrong and learns from it.

 

[adc82140]

But if funding had been in place prior to this, we'd be able to help support the number of people that are now in dire straits with their mental health.

There is bucket loads of funding for cancer services, but that didn't stop them halting vital treatments, diagnostics, and support.

The husband of a friend of mine died of cancer in 2020. The MacMillan nurses refused to come out to him, citing Covid. So his wife and 5 year old had to nurse him in his final days on their own.

 

[Bayum]

Would you say it’s okay for someone to be raped, so long as there’s funding to support them afterwards?

Completely and utterly irrelevant; no comparison. If there weren’t enough services to support those that had been raped, even though groups have been clamouring for this for years, then there’d be an outpouring of support and rightly so. It’s just a shame the same hasn’t been offered for children’s mental health services.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Dec 2021 ==

There is bucket loads of funding for cancer services, but that didn't stop them halting vital treatments, diagnostics, and support.

The husband of a friend of mine died of cancer in 2020. The MacMillan nurses refused to come out to him, citing Covid. So his wife and 5 year old had to nurse him in his final days on their own.

Because the funding for the NHS in general was so crap. If we had a number of nurses, doctors and other equipment, it would have lightened the loss considerably and allowed for some of these services to continue running. Cancer treatment is slightly different due to the side effect of treatment being a poorly functioning immune system; that’s why some treatments didn’t go ahead.

 

[adc82140]

Cancer treatment is slightly different due to the side effect of treatment being a poorly functioning immune system; that’s why some treatments didn’t go ahead.

So what happened, therefore, was that a treatment that might put them at risk of a premature end if they caught Covid was stopped, so that their cancer, which would certainly shorten their life could run riot.

 

[Bayum]

Where do you get all these counsellors from? Who trains them? Who pays for it (presumably the suggestion is we just invent money leading to hyperinflation)?

Every student, including those who had no mental health concerns at all, has been affected in some way. Some much more than others. You can't simply undo this by printing a load of money to pay for counselling.

So on the one hand, you’re complaining that there isn’t enough support for these children but on the other you’re vociferously suggesting that we get by on the lack of funding that was in place for years prior to COVID? You’re in education - you know exactly what dire straits CAMHS are in.
If there was appropriate funding in place then yes. Schemes could have brought in trained counsellors for young people. There could have been more paediatric mental health nurses and psychiatrists. We manage to find other sectors well, yet we can’t support the mental health of our youngest and most volunerable? Waiting lists of 18 months + prior to COVID. Absolutely unacceptable.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Dec 2021 ==

So what happened, therefore, was that a treatment that might put them at risk of a premature end if they caught Covid was stopped, so that their cancer, which would certainly shorten their life could run riot.

Pretty much, unfortunately.

 

[yorkie]

So on the one hand, you’re complaining that there isn’t enough support for these children but on the other you’re vociferously suggesting that we get by on the lack of funding that was in place for years prior to COVID? You’re in education - you know exactly what dire straits CAMHS are in.
If there was appropriate funding in place then yes. Schemes could have brought in trained counsellors for young people. There could have been more paediatric mental health nurses and psychiatrists. We manage to find other sectors well, yet we can’t support the mental health of our youngest and most volunerable? Waiting lists of 18 months + prior to COVID. Absolutely unacceptable.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Dec 2021 ==


Pretty much, unfortunately.

I'm not saying that, but I am saying the scale of the issues we are seeing how are absolutely huge, like nothing seen before. The story here is about the harms created by lockdowns and other restrictions.

It is you who is trying to deflect and detract from the fact that Covid restrictions have caused massive pain and suffering and huge harms to the quality of life for many young people.

The idea that we can now just print even more money and magic up loads of additional staff to make the problems caused by lockdowns & other restrictions simply go away is absolutely absurd.

As I said, yes these services should be properly funded but the lesson here is that we should not impose restrictions that creates such an unprecedented crisis ever again.

 

[Huntergreed]

As someone who's mental health has been quite severely affected by the pandemic, I am quite upset that there are a number of users on here who are either willing to dismiss the idea that restrictions have caused what I view as a mental health epidemic or are putting down serious mental health problems such as depression and anxiety as 'trivial', 'unimportant' or 'less severe than covid'.

The main difficulty for me has been the uncertainty combined with the inevitability of the few enjoyable things in life getting ripped away from me again at short notice for a reason I completely disagree with just to appease a population who has been terrified into compliance and consistently scare mongered by a disgracefully alarmist media.

At the beginning of this year, I felt somewhat hopeful. I felt that the vaccines were the way out of this, and that life would be back to normal by summer, with legal restrictions a chapter we could firmly put in our past. Now, I feel as if I have wasted my time getting the vaccines (yes I know they were effective, but I feel lied to), I feel as if lockdown is indeed on the cards once again (I've heard a few people saying that, after Christmas, they fully expect a return to a business closure and/or stay at home order).

I feel quite comfortable posting this on here as I think it's important for people to realise the impact these restrictions have. Towards the end of the summer/into autumn, I developed a moderate form of depression, which I partly put down to Scotland's insistence on maintaining nonsensical restrictions for the sake of political merit. Admittedly, before Omicron, I was improving, but this has absolutely reversed that. The main thing I get really worried and anxious about is that I really can't see a way out of this. If the vaccines weren't good enough, then what will be?

The answer can't be more vaccine doses, because if the vaccine alone isn't enough to prevent restrictions, the only alternative I see is a permanent societal shift to a state of medical hysteria where the government will write into law every small precaution we must take 'just in case' one death occurs. I would argue that we have experienced a gross misbalance of the prioritisation between quality of life and quantity of life over the past two years, and I feel more concerned than ever before now that the 'light at the end of the tunnel' has proven to be a red herring.

 

[NorthKent1989]

As someone who's mental health has been quite severely affected by the pandemic, I am quite upset that there are a number of users on here who are either willing to dismiss the idea that restrictions have caused what I view as a mental health epidemic or are putting down serious mental health problems such as depression and anxiety as 'trivial', 'unimportant' or 'less severe than covid'.

The main difficulty for me has been the uncertainty combined with the inevitability of the few enjoyable things in life getting ripped away from me again at short notice for a reason I completely disagree with just to appease a population who has been terrified into compliance and consistently scare mongered by a disgracefully alarmist media.

At the beginning of this year, I felt somewhat hopeful. I felt that the vaccines were the way out of this, and that life would be back to normal by summer, with legal restrictions a chapter we could firmly put in our past. Now, I feel as if I have wasted my time getting the vaccines (yes I know they were effective, but I feel lied to), I feel as if lockdown is indeed on the cards once again (I've heard a few people saying that, after Christmas, they fully expect a return to a business closure and/or stay at home order).

I feel quite comfortable posting this on here as I think it's important for people to realise the impact these restrictions have. Towards the end of the summer/into autumn, I developed a moderate form of depression, which I partly put down to Scotland's insistence on maintaining nonsensical restrictions for the sake of political merit. Admittedly, before Omicron, I was improving, but this has absolutely reversed that. The main thing I get really worried and anxious about is that I really can't see a way out of this. If the vaccines weren't good enough, then what will be?

The answer can't be more vaccine doses, because if the vaccine alone isn't enough to prevent restrictions, the only alternative I see is a permanent societal shift to a state of medical hysteria where the government will write into law every small precaution we must take 'just in case' one death occurs. I would argue that we have experienced a gross misbalance of the prioritisation between quality of life and quantity of life over the past two years, and I feel more concerned than ever before now that the 'light at the end of the tunnel' has proven to be a red herring.

I completely understand where you’re coming from, in the years before Covid, from around 2016/17 the conversation regarding de-stigmatising mental health issues was finally being spoken about, and since Covid we’ve seen a massive step back in regards to mental health, and I too am also disappointed in many on this forum who completely disregard mental health issues, it’s like only Covid matter, they can’t let anyone die of Covid but people who commit suicide in lockdown should get a grip is the attitude I get from most people, it’s very sad

 

[bramling]

Completely and utterly irrelevant; no comparison. If there weren’t enough services to support those that had been raped, even though groups have been clamouring for this for years, then there’d be an outpouring of support and rightly so. It’s just a shame the same hasn’t been offered for children’s mental health services.

I don't see it as irrelevant. Restrictions are imposing a severe burden on people, the result of which is the potential for mental health problems.

If you're going to do that, you need to have a damn good justification for doing it in the first place.

It isn't good enough just to, in effect, say "let's throw some money at it, which will make it all okay".

 

[Bayum]

I'm not saying that, but I am saying the scale of the issues we are seeing how are absolutely huge, like nothing seen before. The story here is about the harms created by lockdowns and other restrictions.

It is you who is trying to deflect and detract from the fact that Covid restrictions have caused massive pain and suffering and huge harms to the quality of life for many young people.

The idea that we can now just print even more money and magic up loads of additional staff to make the problems caused by lockdowns & other restrictions simply go away is absolutely absurd.

As I said, yes these services should be properly funded but the lesson here is that we should not impose restrictions that creates such an unprecedented crisis ever again.

Well, don’t blame COVID and lockdowns then when it’s clearly a multi-faceted issue.