Omicron variant and the measures implemented in response to it

[3rd rail land]

This is the sort of rabbit-holing that I alluded to earlier. So, essentially, you will do what is legally required of you, but as long as it remains voluntary, you will not be getting any (more) vaccinations. Where do you think that logic leads you?

Well I complied and got double vaccinated and there were more restrictions. If I do the absolute minimum the law requires of me the worst that can happen is more restrictions are imposed. Either way the outcome is more restrictions. At this point nobody can convince me that getting a booster jab will result in the return of normal pre 2020 life.

 

[MikeWM]

Well this is a good start to Plan B life:

Of course this happened a month or two back as well, and stranded people at airports for a while.

A society where you require to show permission to do normal things is totally rubbish for everyone, whether they qualify for the 'permission' or not.

 

[joncombe]

Is there to be a parliament vote on these latest batch of ridiculous uncalled for restrictions? It will UNFORTUNATELY probably win by a landslide yet again. Problem is with the last vote, only 25 MP's voted against it! What happened to the 70 odd strong CRG group with that vote?

I really can not believe what is happening to this country with these blasted restrictions starting to come back all over again. We do not deserve this. Get us back to normal for crying out loud!

My own MP claimed to be a member of the Covid Recovery Group when I have contacted him about Covid restrictions previously. I was annoyed to see he didn't bother to vote at all on the last round of Covid restrictions (return of red-list quarantine and return of the mask mandate).

 

[yorkie]

Well I complied and got double vaccinated and there were more restrictions. If I do the absolute minimum the law requires of me the worst that can happen is more restrictions are imposed. Either way the outcome is more restrictions. At this point nobody can convince me that getting a booster jab will result in the return of normal pre 2020 life.

I know it is difficult to get motivated to get a booster, knowing the Government wants us to do it. In a way I would like to refuse to get boosted on that basis. But who benefits from that? And would it really achieve anything?

Far better to get the booster but not comply with any of the nonsense.

 

[AlterEgo]

Well I complied and got double vaccinated and there were more restrictions. If I do the absolute minimum the law requires of me the worst that can happen is more restrictions are imposed. Either way the outcome is more restrictions. At this point nobody can convince me that getting a booster jab will result in the return of normal pre 2020 life.

So the logic here is that the booster jab brings literally zero benefit whatsoever, which would be wrong. It brings at least a marginal benefit to everyone who has it.

Pre-2020 life will not return in any way you or I will really accept as being "really it" because of the very deep cultural and structural impact of the virus on societies, so wishing for a simple reversion isn't going to happen. Better to be the grass, rooted but bending in the hurricane than a proud oak which falls in a gale.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Dec 2021 ==

I know it is difficult to get motivated to get a booster, knowing the Government wants us to do it. In a way I would like to refuse to get boosted on that basis. But who benefits from that? And would it really achieve anything?

Far better to get the booster but not comply with any of the nonsense.

This is at least logical and follows to a conclusion!

 

[yorkie]

Of course this happened a month or two back as well, and stranded people at airports for a while.

While the issues are not acceptable, you can avoid being stranded by downloading the PDF plenty of time in advance. The PDF is valid for a month.

I plan not to use it for domestic purposes and I would like to boycott any domestic venue that requires to see it. International travel is different and I can see how a country wants to check you are less likely to be a burden on the healthcare system before being granted entry.

 

[Berliner]

For domestic purposes, I have no plans to wear a flimsy mask, no plans to show a vaccine passport/certificate, and I will make plans to visit pubs more often.

I also deem it to be compulsory for anyone I meet in a pub to not be wearing a mask, and I expect to see no such masks, as a show of respect for others, especially those with hearing impairments etc.

This announcement has no effect on me, other than making me more determined to resist and encouraging me to do the opposite of what the Government wants me to do.

I hope many people and organisations resist.

But they are coming, yes? And before Christmas.

 

[3rd rail land]

For domestic purposes, I have no plans to wear a flimsy mask, no plans to show a vaccine passport/certificate, and I will make plans to visit pubs more often.

I also deem it to be compulsory for anyone I meet in a pub to not be wearing a mask, and I expect to see no such masks, as a show of respect for others, especially those with hearing impairments etc.

This announcement has no effect on me, other than making me more determined to resist and encouraging me to do the opposite of what the Government wants me to do.

I hope many people and organisations resist.

I know it is difficult to get motivated to get a booster, knowing the Government wants us to do it. In a way I would like to refuse to get boosted on that basis. But who benefits from that? And would it really achieve anything?

Far better to get the booster but not comply with any of the nonsense.

So you say you are 'more determined to resist and encouraging me to do the opposite of what the Government wants me to do', which includes getting a booster jab yet you also say 'Far better to get the booster but not comply with any of the nonsense.'
Which is it? These are two conflicting viewpoints.

 

[bramling]

So you say you are 'more determined to resist and encouraging me to do the opposite of what the Government wants me to do', which includes getting a booster jab yet you also say 'Far better to get the booster but not comply with any of the nonsense.'
Which is it? These are two conflicting viewpoints.

I suppose the difference is that the booster probably has some value, whereas the rest of the measures introduced are chocolate teapot territory.

However taking a vaccine is a personal choice, and if someone had already decided that for whatever reason they don’t want it, but were thinking of having it simply because the government wanted them to, then it’s quite rational to now decide to decline it. One does need to weigh up the personal risks though.

 

[yorkie]

So you say you are 'more determined to resist and encouraging me to do the opposite of what the Government wants me to do', which includes getting a booster jab yet you also say 'Far better to get the booster but not comply with any of the nonsense.'
Which is it? These are two conflicting viewpoints.

Have you read my posts on the subject?
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...l-and-deployment.211585/page-121#post-5402506
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ariant-of-concern.225357/page-20#post-5436646

Boosters are not nonsense. Restrictions are.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Dec 2021 ==

I suppose the difference is that the booster probably has some value, whereas the rest of the measures introduced are chocolate teapot territory.

However taking a vaccine is a personal choice, and if someone had already decided that for whatever reason they don’t want it, but were thinking of having it simply because the government wanted them to, then it’s quite rational to now decide to decline it. One does need to weigh up the personal risks though.

Agreed.

 

[Watershed]

Is there to be a parliament vote on these latest batch of ridiculous uncalled for restrictions? Problem is with the last vote, only 25 MP's voted against it! What happened to the 70 odd strong CRG group with that vote?

There will be. But it will be retrospective, and with the ludicrous way that Covid regulations (and made-affirmative regulations more generally) work, it's a Hobson's choice of approving it as-is or throwing it out entirely.

Lots of "research" groups have popped up over the last couple of years, but at the end of the day they are little more than organised lobby groups. Their numbers are too small - and their self-preservation interest too great - for them to truly go through with their rhetoric.

So you say you are 'more determined to resist and encouraging me to do the opposite of what the Government wants me to do', which includes getting a booster jab yet you also say 'Far better to get the booster but not comply with any of the nonsense.'
Which is it? These are two conflicting viewpoints.

Refusing a booster because it's what the government wants is tantamount to cutting off your nose to spite your face. Not everything the government wants is bad.

EU vaccine passports also (will?) only have validity for 9 months from the last vaccination, so if you want to avoid onerous travel restrictions when going to other European countries, you are left with little choice.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Refusing a booster because it's what the government wants is tantamount to cutting off your nose to spite your face. Not everything the government wants is bad.

That’s news to me, I don’t want boosters for the fact that it clearly stated that it was 2 jabs to freedom, boosters weren’t part of that package.

 

[MikeWM]

While the issues are not acceptable, you can avoid being stranded by downloading the PDF plenty of time in advance. The PDF is valid for a month.

Yes, for now.

If we progress further down the 'social credit' route, which as probably everyone knows I've believed to be the plan for some time, then that won't be the case forever - the frequency of government giving you permission to do stuff, or not, is going to be more like daily.

Though at that point I expect the international travel bit would be decoupled from the domestic version anyway.

I plan not to use it for domestic purposes and I would like to boycott any domestic venue that requires to see it.

Good If everyone did the same this would be over before Christmas.

 

[initiation]

Anyone who is against restrictions and/or vaccine passports please use the next day or two to get in touch with your MP and let then know your thoughts before the measures are voted on. It was a close run thing in a vote in Wales so efforts are not pointless.

Big Brother Watch have some handy stuff to assist:

Emergency Coronavirus Powers — Big Brother Watch

A wave of emergency powers in response to the coronavirus pandemic have brought about the greatest loss of liberty in our country's history.

bigbrotherwatch.org.uk

 

[Watershed]

That’s news to me, I don’t want boosters for the fact that it clearly stated that it was 2 jabs to freedom, boosters weren’t part of that package.

Unfortunately anyone who got their vaccinations on that basis was completely misled. The warning signs were there from Israel pretty early, I'm afraid to say.

As vaccination is, in many ways, the risk factor over which you have the greatest control - it seems "unwise" to make your choice based on what the government does or doesn't want, or did or didn't promise. You should make the choice based on what feels right for you, and nothing else.

 

[Cdd89]

I would be astonished if foreign countries do not begin to require boosters for travel. This is such a foregone conclusion that I will be getting boosted for this reason alone. The other thing that informed my view was seeing that it increased protection beyond that at the second dose; my jabs were only 4 weeks apart so I can definitely see the rationale in my case.

 

[yorkie]

That’s news to me, I don’t want boosters for the fact that it clearly stated that it was 2 jabs to freedom, boosters weren’t part of that package.

Experts I have listened to suggest that 2 jabs are sufficient, but you should space them further apart (say 6 months; no-one knows the true optimum figure yet as insufficient research has been carried out and it is difficult to measure, not to mention time wasn't really on our side!); also for increased efficacy it would be better for one of them to be an mRNA vaccine and the other to be a viral vector vaccine. You will no doubt get a natural exposure at some point which can act as a booster. You won't need a booster vaccine, but it may harm your prospects of going to certain countries if you don't

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Dec 2021 ==

I would be astonished if foreign countries do not begin to require boosters for travel. This is such a foregone conclusion that I will be getting boosted for this reason alone. The other thing that informed my view was seeing that it increased protection beyond that at the second dose; my jabs were only 4 weeks apart so I can definitely see the rationale in my case.

Indeed. And the Government don't like us going abroad, which gives us a good reason to do exactly that

 

[dave87016]

At yesterdays conference I believe someone from the media or public questioned the vaccine rollout’s success and Whitty snapped back with a defensive answer and it made me think

well sir with all due respect I disagree , in my opinion the rollout has been a failure , how can the goverment say that “we have a world beating vaccine rollout “ when the vast majority have been vaccinated , a fair portion of those got vaccinated because we were promised it was the way forward to have no restrictions on our freedoms and to help us live with covid albeit cautious and irreversible without that promise a lot wouldn’t have bothered with it

Yet here we are back with restrictions imposed upon us, yes it helps give us protection and helps keep our loved ones safe but the roll out hasn’t done what they promised it would do which would be the way forward to as normal a life as possible and irreversible in order for it to be deemed successful it has to achieve what it was promised for ( to carry us forward without further restrictions on our freedoms and live our lives as close to normal as it was pre covid )

the minority who haven’t /won’t have the vaccines for whatever reason we have to respect their choice and vice versa but the goverment should not do this at the expense of the majority who have had it having restrictions imposed on us , making us suffer both mentally and financially and jeopardising jobs businesses and livelihoods

I get the feeling that boris has stopped short of further draconian restrictions to try and calm the waters that surround his cabinets christmas party fiasco and that the next step will be further restrictions before Xmas or after the new year and then we are back at square one

whatever happened to we have to learn to accept and live with covid ? As I said before whenever people go abroad from here on in there will always be the element of danger that new variants will appear so what then ? Do they unnecessarily impose restrictions on our freedoms ? again jeopardise jobs businesses and livelihoods while they try to learn about each and every new variant that appears ?

 

[Furryanimal]

So now , not only can I not take my mask off at the Severn Tunnel, but i will need my vaccine passport -sorry-Covid Pass-at events across the border too!
The results of Wales three week review are due to be drip fed to the media today ahead of tomorrows official announcement and I fear that the use of Covid Passes will be extended here.
And like others here it concerns me that vaccination was sold as the way back to normality....and that hasn’t happened.

 

[Horizon22]

That’s news to me, I don’t want boosters for the fact that it clearly stated that it was 2 jabs to freedom, boosters weren’t part of that package.

I think its evident that the Government really didn't know what they were talking about in this (and many other) regards and just said what people wanted to hear with regards to all this "freedom" talk. Reality was anything but that. It will likely become something like the annual flu jab, although I sincerely hope that we don't go into a wild panic every time a new Greek letter rears its head.

 

[Towers]

I think its evident that the Government really didn't know what they were talking about in this (and many other) regards and just said what people wanted to hear with regards to all this "freedom" talk. Reality was anything but that. It will likely become something like the annual flu jab, although I sincerely hope that we don't go into a wild panic every time a new Greek letter rears its head.

Agreed, an annual jab is something that I think most folk would have no issue with, I certainly wouldn't. My concern at the current time is that we're a very long way off of that, with one jab having turned into two, three, in some cases four, all in a very short space of time and seemingly with no clear end point in sight. We know that the variants will keep coming, and as you say we simply cannot adopt a policy of the response being "panic, more jabs!!" every time.

 

[21C101]

So you say you are 'more determined to resist and encouraging me to do the opposite of what the Government wants me to do', which includes getting a booster jab yet you also say 'Far better to get the booster but not comply with any of the nonsense.'
Which is it? These are two conflicting viewpoints.

The reason most people here have decent pay, free rail travel and a pension is because people joined together in a union and withdrew co-operation. This at times had unpleasant consequences but was extraordinarily effective.

Look at people like me now refusing to get a booster in protest at these restrictions as strike action against the government. A sudden drop in booster takeup would send a very effective message.

 

[Silver Cobra]

Yesterday’s news, while unsurprising, was extremely disappointing. It makes me glad that I have an exemption lanyard now so the extended mask mandate doesn’t directly affect me (unless we get to a point where the government feel that exemptions need to be revoked and it become a situation of ‘wear a mask or don’t leave your home, period’). However, several news sources made comment of the ‘experts’ behind the scenes murmuring the possible need for a Plan C or even Plan D, so this very likely won’t be the only tightening for restrictions. I expect us to return to some form of lockdown by the start of the new year, whether furlough is there or not.

A ‘lovely’ gift to the nation for Christmas from BoJo and co...

 

[Bantamzen]

Refusing a booster because it's what the government wants is tantamount to cutting off your nose to spite your face. Not everything the government wants is bad.

Is it? I for example have had the two AZ jabs, and subsequently had covid. So my immune system is now very well aware of the virus, and all of it's RNA. All having a jab will achieve will be to trigger some antibody production that would likely occur anyway if I caught the virus again. So I fail to see why deciding not to go for a booster is what you say.

Quite frankly all countries scrambling to get 3rd, and even 4th jabs out should be ashamed of themselves because they are making it harder for countries like South Africa to get even 1st jabs in. You remember SA, the country where the latest scariant was first detected? Also remember, our government has instructed GPs to once again limit access to some services like regular health checks for over 75s if they need to use resources for jabs. Over 75s? Weren't they the people we were trying to protect in the first place?

Crazy, just crazy.

EU vaccine passports also (will?) only have validity for 9 months from the last vaccination, so if you want to avoid onerous travel restrictions when going to other European countries, you are left with little choice.

That was their proposal, whether or not they can actually bring it in is yet to be seen. If some member states struggle to keep up there could quickly be a backlash.

I would be astonished if foreign countries do not begin to require boosters for travel. This is such a foregone conclusion that I will be getting boosted for this reason alone. The other thing that informed my view was seeing that it increased protection beyond that at the second dose; my jabs were only 4 weeks apart so I can definitely see the rationale in my case.

Sadly I fear you are right, other countries are also in full panic mode so a 3rd and maybe 4th jab could become mandatory. However in the scramble for forever boosters, it is yet unclear just how effective any of this will be. Boosters will trigger antibody production, but it can be as short as a few weeks before antibody production scales back considerably, as we cannot produce all of them all of the time. So the benefits of boosters could be somewhat limited, however for most people with healthy immune systems the memory B & memory T cells will be lurking waiting for any sign of the virus to return.

That being said there are some benefits to regular boosters to some. Both Pfizer & Moderna quietly put the prices up by a third in the summer, so the shareholders will be enjoying the very best champagne at future meetings....

 

[dave87016]

Another question I have that intrigues me is , is this new variant the actual thing that could overwhelm and put pressure onto the NHS ? Or is the fact there is a NHS staff shortage that means they will struggle to cope with hospitalisations and the goverment haven’t really done anything of note to prevent that infact quite the contrary they have treated NHS staff like they have the public appallingly from the moment Covid came about the NHS staff have been amazing , true heroes the thing that makes me proud to be part of the UK they were working flat out all hours , risking their lives including the possibility they could have caught covid themselves and infected their loved ones ,

 

[DustyBin]

So now , not only can I not take my mask off at the Severn Tunnel, but i will need my vaccine passport -sorry-Covid Pass-at events across the border too!
The results of Wales three week review are due to be drip fed to the media today ahead of tomorrows official announcement and I fear that the use of Covid Passes will be extended here.
And like others here it concerns me that vaccination was sold as the way back to normality....and that hasn’t happened.

I think they should just call it a “compliance pass” and be done with it, seeing as it clearly has nothing to do with public health.

That being said there are some benefits to regular boosters to some. Both Pfizer & Moderna quietly put the prices up by a third in the summer, so the shareholders will be enjoying the very best champagne at future meetings....

You mean Pfizer and Moderna are making a few quid out of all this? Surely not!

 

[AlterEgo]

The reason most people here have decent pay, free rail travel and a pension is because people joined together in a union and withdrew co-operation. This at times had unpleasant consequences but was extraordinarily effective.

Look at people like me now refusing to get a booster in protest at these restrictions as strike action against the government. A sudden drop in booster takeup would send a very effective message.

That’s not going on strike. Mass denial of booster take up will kill some people. It might not be you, but it will be someone.

 

[Pete_uk]

Dr Zubaida Haque from SAGE says these restrictions don't go far enough. Quelle Surprise.

 

[Eyersey468]

Dr Zubaida Haque from SAGE says these restrictions don't go far enough. Quelle Surprise.

Why doesn't that surprise me?

 

[quantinghome]

The reason most people here have decent pay, free rail travel and a pension is because people joined together in a union and withdrew co-operation. This at times had unpleasant consequences but was extraordinarily effective.

Look at people like me now refusing to get a booster in protest at these restrictions as strike action against the government. A sudden drop in booster takeup would send a very effective message.

Refusing to get a booster sends no message to anyone. The vast majority of people are getting boosters and will dismiss any anti-vax protest as an eccentricity (if they are being polite). If anything, it would likely harden public opinion against vaccine refusers and make vaccine passports more likely.

It's a completely different situation to a rail strike where virtually all staff are in a union which can agree and enforce strike action, where crossing a picket line is an absolute no-no and where strike action has an immediate impact on the employer's bottom line.