Travel Incident report at deansgate station

[ManeManchester]

I was travelling from Preston to Deansgate in Manchester.

I haven't been using the trains for a while since Covid and so when I was booking my ticket on the trainline app I didn't realise it had the 26-30 railway card option ticked. My railway card expired 5 months ago and I never renewed it because I hardly use the train.

Anyway I got off at the station and was stopped by the guard who asked to see my railway card. After I explained the situation and showed them my railway card they insisted on making a travel incident report. For clarification I paid £4.40 for the ticket when I should've paid £7.50. I asked if I could just pay a new ticket there and then but to no avail.

They've told me that Northern railway would get in touch by mail soon and I could get prosecuted. I've never experienced anything like this and I'm kind of in a panic. I am in the process of renewing my visa and I don't want this to jeopardise anything.

I'm just really scared to be taken to court over £3. Does anyone know how these things usually play out?

 

[mikeg]

Usually if it's northern they're quite open to settling out if court, especially for more minor transgressions such as this. You need to wait for the letter, but when it arrives reply with an apology, a reassurance you will always check the validity of your tickets in future. You also need to offer to pay their costs and the full cost of the fare due. Leave any calculation up to them . Northern have also been known to offer out of court settlements off their own back, sometimes mockingly referred to as 'penalty fakes' due to the way in which they imitate an official penalty fare(which would have had to have been given there and then).

 

[ManeManchester]

Thank you for your reply. I've been reading around on this website (this is my first visit) and I'm wondering whether they might choose to prosecute straight away, before giving me the option to pay a settlement?

Or would that be unlikely given that it was a genuine mistake and I did purchase a ticket, just at the wrong price?

 

[glasgowniteowl]

If the rail card was out of date by 5 months and they look up your trainline history will they find out about any other tickets purchased with that railcard?

 

[ManeManchester]

Yes, the ticket I purchased in the morning (to go from deansgate to preston) and potentially 2 other tickets. My tickets were checked, but this was the first time someone spotted the railcard and thats when I noticed the option for the 26-30 railcard was still ticked on my trainline app.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Here’s the advice I normally give to people who come here seeking advice on letter they’ve received about a ticketing irregularity.

You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company would be well within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be a few hundred pounds plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a draft of your reply on here and we will be happy to prof read it.

 

[ManeManchester]

Thank you for all your replies. I will wait until I receive the letter and go from there. Fingers crossed I can settle it out of court.

 

[js1000]

Thank you for your reply. I've been reading around on this website (this is my first visit) and I'm wondering whether they might choose to prosecute straight away, before giving me the option to pay a settlement?

Or would that be unlikely given that it was a genuine mistake and I did purchase a ticket, just at the wrong price?

They won't prosecute if this is the first time you've travelled without a valid railcard. Courts are generally a last resort despite their falsely threatening letters about prosecution. They will offer some form of out of court settlement.

 

[Haywain]

They won't prosecute if this is the first time you've travelled without a valid railcard. Courts are generally a last resort despite their falsely threatening letters about prosecution. They will offer some form of out of court settlement.

I don't think you can reasonably say that the threat of court proceedings is false. Whilst they clearly settle in most cases we see here, that is because people respond whereas those who do not will find their cases going to court.

 

[WesternLancer]

I was travelling from Preston to Deansgate in Manchester.

I haven't been using the trains for a while since Covid and so when I was booking my ticket on the trainline app I didn't realise it had the 26-30 railway card option ticked. My railway card expired 5 months ago and I never renewed it because I hardly use the train.

Anyway I got off at the station and was stopped by the guard who asked to see my railway card. After I explained the situation and showed them my railway card they insisted on making a travel incident report. For clarification I paid £4.40 for the ticket when I should've paid £7.50. I asked if I could just pay a new ticket there and then but to no avail.

They've told me that Northern railway would get in touch by mail soon and I could get prosecuted. I've never experienced anything like this and I'm kind of in a panic. I am in the process of renewing my visa and I don't want this to jeopardise anything.

I'm just really scared to be taken to court over £3. Does anyone know how these things usually play out?

I assume you gave correct address for the letter to be sent to you that will reach you OK? Obv if you do not get the letter and respond it can escalate to court as they will think you are ignoring it so important that you watch out for it in the post.

Also You should renew your Railcard ASAP as it shows you have taken action in response to this and shown that it was genuine mistake. I would do this now even if you may not need to use the train again for some time - as it helps support the narrative that you need to tell them in your written reply that this was a mistake, and that you have learned from it and moreover taken steps to make sure it does not happen again.

Good luck and head back here when you need more advice on when you draft your reply if you want any feedback for example.

 

[ManeManchester]

Thank you WesternLancer. I renewed my railcard before I left the station that day as I was so shaken up. I hope they will take this into consideration. And I did give my correct details (address/name) and they confirmed using my ID card.

Will do that once I hear from them.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you WesternLancer. I renewed my railcard before I left the station that day as I was so shaken up. I hope they will take this into consideration. And I did give my correct details (address/name) and they confirmed using my ID card.

Will do that once I hear from them.

Good stuff - so Railcard renewal worth a mention when you reply to them. You just have to wait for the letter now I think, then head back here if you need more help.

 

[js1000]

I don't think you can reasonably say that the threat of court proceedings is false. Whilst they clearly settle in most cases we see here, that is because people respond whereas those who do not will find their cases going to court.

I would have thought it is pretty obvious that is what I expressly meant in this context of what the OP's circumstances (i.e. if you respond they'll offer an out of court settlement). If you don't and offer no explanation then it will end up in court.

 

[ManeManchester]

Hello everyone,

I've received a letter for Northern Trains regarding an expired railway card which mean't I paid a cheaper fare than I was supposed to. I have drafted my response, which I aim to send by email. Would be very helpful if someone could have look at it to let me know if it is OK to send? I've also attached the letter.




To whom this may concern,

Thank you for your letter on 07 December 2021 and for giving me the opportunity to respond.

On 30th November 2021, I travelled from Preston to Manchester. When purchasing my ticket, I did not realise that the 26-30 railway card option was ticked and therefore I ended up paying a cheaper fare (£4.40 instead of £6.70). I was stopped at Deansgate station and asked to show my railcard, which was expired.

I understand this is a breach of your railway regulations and against the law. I fully apologise for failing to pay the appropriate fare for the journey and I am keen to settle this out of court. Please allow me to pay the full price of the ticket and any administrative expenses and penalties that my mistake has caused Northern trains.

To ensure this does not happen again in the future, I made sure to renew my railcard before leaving the station on the 30th November 2021. Please see attached a copy of my railcard.

Thank you and I look forward to hearing back.

Kind regards,

 

[Snow1964]

Think the did not realise railcard being ticked might get you in a muddle, because it also reads as though you had a 26-30 railcard but did not realise it had expired.

Think you need to reword it as inadvertently bought a ticket with my railcard, not realising that my railcard had recently expired.

(If it expired ages ago, then probably best not to say recently expired)

 

[Titfield]

Being pernickety but I would delete the "your" in "your railway regulations" because it somehow seems to imply you dont accept them.

 

[ManeManchester]

Thank you, I will make the changes and send off. Hoping they opt for out of court settlement.

 

[ManeManchester]

Hello - just wanted to update. I received a fixed penalty plus the price of a ticket for a total amount of £103. I've paid this off now and happy to put this behind me.

Thank you very much for the support and advice.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello - just wanted to update. I received a fixed penalty plus the price of a ticket for a total amount of £103. I've paid this off now and happy to put this behind me.

Thank you very much for the support and advice.

Thanks for update - in the scale of payments requested I think this could have been worse. Hope you feel reasonably ok with it. Seasons Greetings!

 

[drenge23]

Hi there, just a quick Q, did you send by email or by letter? I've just sent mine off by email and just a bit worried as to whether they will clock that they have recieved a response

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Hi there, just a quick Q, did you send by email or by letter? I've just sent mine off by email and just a bit worried as to whether they will clock that they have recieved a response

If you’re concerned that they might not understand the email to be a response., send a copy by post as well, explaining that it’s a copy of the email. I think that should cover all options.

 

[island]

Hi there, just a quick Q, did you send by email or by letter? I've just sent mine off by email and just a bit worried as to whether they will clock that they have recieved a response

If you have an issue of your own, please use your own thread.

 

[Haywain]

If you have an issue of your own, please use your own thread.

@drenge23 did start their own thread, here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/ive-been-silly.225766/