Penzance relief trains 1980s

[Colin1501]

I've recently come across a photo, taken at Stapleton Road, Bristol in August 1981, of what is reported to be a Penzance to Paddington service. The consist is a pair of Class 50s hauling eleven Mark 1 coaches - there is no catering vehicle. I was under the impression that all Plymouth/Penzance trains were formed of air-conditioned Mark 2s by this time, or even HSTs. Then I got to thinking, could this have been a relief train (it was a Sunday)?

So my question is, were there still relief trains between London and Penzance in the early 1980s, and if so, would they have been formed of Mark 1 stock, and not provided any catering?

Grateful for any thoughts.

 

[Cricketer8for9]

I certainly travelled on one in 1984, getting off at Bodmin Parkway. I think Class 50, and I’m fairly sure it was not air-conditioned stock. I think we (a school group) had reserved the whole coach. Back was via a change at Exeter, a Peak hauled, presumably northern England headed train from Bodmin and then, on a separate train, up the Bank to Exeter Central and on to Waterloo.

 

[Gloster]

Recollection from the period, when I was a signalman in Devon, is that Mark 1 sets still appeared mainly at weekends. Some would work the one or two Friday Down extras, there would be plenty on the Summer Saturday trains, and then a few on Sunday Up extras. (‘Extras’ means the all-year-round timetabled additional ones for the weekenders.) To what extent they ran through from/to Penzance rather than Paignton or Plymouth, particularly without a buffet, I can’t remember. If it was at Stapleton Road, could it have been a Sunday? Sunday trains did sometimes wander well off the direct route, particularly in the winter half of the timetable, due to engineering works on the more direct ones.

A simple answer to your second paragraph is: yes, there were, either as a normal part of the timetable or by extending Plymouth-Paddington reliefs back to start at Penzance. And Mark 1 (or sometimes early Mark II) sets without buffets was normal. There might have been a trolley or BSO(T).

 

[Ashley Hill]

At that time there may still have been seasonal catering stewards with trolleys on those trains. Stephen Cornish gives an account of this work in his book 'Return To 1969'.

 

[hexagon789]

I've recently come across a photo, taken at Stapleton Road, Bristol in August 1981, of what is reported to be a Penzance to Paddington service. The consist is a pair of Class 50s hauling eleven Mark 1 coaches - there is no catering vehicle. I was under the impression that all Plymouth/Penzance trains were formed of air-conditioned Mark 2s by this time, or even HSTs. Then I got to thinking, could this have been a relief train (it was a Sunday)?

So my question is, were there still relief trains between London and Penzance in the early 1980s, and if so, would they have been formed of Mark 1 stock, and not provided any catering?

Grateful for any thoughts.

Don't have access to a 1981 WR PTM, but a quick look at the 1980 WR PTM threw up the 1855 summer Sundays only Penzance-Paddington - booked 8 dual heat Mk1s plus a Mk2 BFK in the middle; no catering.

 

[The exile]

If it was at Stapleton Road, could it have been a Sunday? Sunday trains did sometimes wander well off the direct route, particularly in the winter half of the timetable, due to engineering works on the more direct ones.

And if trains were "wandering well off the direct route", they may well not have been able to stick to diagram, requiring the odd extra set of odd stock (hence the Mk Is)

 

[Gloster]

And if trains were "wandering well off the direct route", they may well not have been able to stick to diagram, requiring the odd extra set of odd stock (hence the Mk Is)

Although the trains were well off the direct route via the Berks & Hants, it would have been a timetabled diversion, i.e. actually in the Mandatory timetable book. There wouldn’t need to be any extra sets as, at least as far as the West of England was concerned, the Mark 1 ones only made a single journey in a day except on Saturday, when many made London-Devon/Cornwall and back (or v.v.). (On a weekday many made a morning trip into Paddington and an evening one out, together with ECS workings to and from Old Oak Common.)

 

[MichaelAMW]

The MKI sets that were used for commuter services to Twyford, Newbury, Didcot and Oxford were routinely pressed into service for the West Country during summer weekends, so you might say that the notion that "all Plymouth/Penzance trains were formed of air-conditioned Mark 2s by this time" wasn't strictly true. Weekdays and winter, essentially yes, but not summer Saturdays.

 

[Beebman]

I remember spotting at Reading one summer Saturday in the late 80s when I saw a 47-hauled rake of mainly NSE-liveried Mk1 SKs heading for the South West. I can't remember how far it was going but it looked crowded and rather uncomfortable.

 

[Sultan1056]

I've recently come across a photo, taken at Stapleton Road, Bristol in August 1981, of what is reported to be a Penzance to Paddington service. The consist is a pair of Class 50s hauling eleven Mark 1 coaches - there is no catering vehicle. I was under the impression that all Plymouth/Penzance trains were formed of air-conditioned Mark 2s by this time, or even HSTs. Then I got to thinking, could this have been a relief train (it was a Sunday)?

So my question is, were there still relief trains between London and Penzance in the early 1980s, and if so, would they have been formed of Mark 1 stock, and not provided any catering?

Grateful for any thoughts.

I travelled on a couple of relief trains in the early 80’s which were mark 1 stock and IIRC there were no catering vehicles. A quick check of my records and I note the following:
SAT 30/10/82 50002 1448 PEN-PAD
WED 28/12/83 50026 1347 PAD-PEN

 

[55002]

As an aside Exeter St David’s on a summer Saturday in the mid 80s was a tremendous place

 

[Cowley]

As an aside Exeter St David’s on a summer Saturday in the mid 80s was a tremendous place

I’ll say!

 

[Taunton]

I only recall the 1970s rather than 1980s, but it was common on August Friday nights for the overnights from Paddington to the West, which I occasionally had to meet family from at Taunton, to be run in two portions, about 10 minutes apart. What I can't remember is which way round they were, main train compared to relief. The latter I understood were commonly formed of Paddington to Oxford commuter sets, worked back ecs on Friday mid-evening to Paddington to run overnight to the West and then form Saturday morning extras back to Paddington. It was not unusual when the first train was doing platform duties for the second to become visible up the line, slowly approaching the outer home signal.

Overnight reliefs in only a slightly different form were an undocumented part of the major Norton Fitzwarren accident in 1941. Instead of waiting for the newspaper train to overtake, and then following it out on the Down Main, which was normal, it was wanted to get the first section out of the platform, where it had stood overtime, in order to bring the second section in, which was standing behind at signals. This is what was unusually behind sending the first section out on the Down Relief.

 

[randyrippley]

Mid 1980's Sunday afternoon, engineering work on Bristol Birmingham
An advertised relief turned up - 31444 with the 3-coach mk1 "secret resource". We sprinted non-stop to Didcot, then through Oxford. The 31 was probably running as fast as it ever did, but the HST 90 minutes behind went direct and got to New St ahead of us. Fun ride though - over the years I had several behind 31444 and it always seemed a bit quicker than its brethren

 

[Gloster]

A look at the 1973-1974 WTT suggests that the only overnight rxtra was the 23.35 Paddington-Penzance, which was 03.45-03.48 at Taunton. The regular 23.45 Paddington was 04.08-04.16 and the 00.55 Paddington was 03.15-03.19; the 01.10 Kensington-St Austell Motorail was 03.39-03.41. There was also extras on Fridays to get stock to the west: 16.53 Paddington-Penzance and 18.27 Paddington-Truro; the latter then ECS to Laira.