Crossrail - Construction updates and progress towards opening (now expected 24 May 2022)

[JonathanH]

Can be general public, I was one of the testers for the Edinburgh Tram before it opened - the main aim was to try different crowd control methods for Murrayfield

Yes, at some point. Doesn't mean it is general public at this stage. I don't think anything has been publicised about seeking volunteers yet.

 

[itfcfan]

Has anyone seen information about planned service patterns once the final phase of the opening is complete? i.e. Something more detailed than 24tph in the core during the peak, 12tph running west of Paddington, 12tph to Abbey Wood and 16tph east of Liverpool street (including the 4 terminators)?

This London Reconnections article from 2018 went into some depth on the expected service pattern west of Paddington:

Crossrail: Timetable for Success? - London Reconnections

The leading source for independent news and analysis about transport in London and beyond. Award-winning coverage of transport infrastructure and politics alongside stories about the history of the Capital's transport networks.

www.londonreconnections.com

With services terminating at Heathrow, Maidenhead and Reading and the existing services stopping at different intermediate stations depending on the final destination, this part of the line has a more complex timetable than east of Liverpool street (all stops either to Gidea Park or Shenfield) and Abbey Wood (all stops on all services).

The 2018 article suggested stations such as West Ealing and Hanwell would receive a significant uplift in services calling. Given I believe 12tph west of Paddington is still the plan, my assumption is this service pattern is likely to remain the plan. But if anyone knows otherwise I'd be interested to hear about it!

 

[ijmad]

From March next year it will be 12tph from Paddington to Abbey Wood, no connectivity at the Eastern/Western ends.

From September I think the idea is to run the existing TfL rail timetable but extend GWML services to Abbey Wood and GEML services to Paddington as interleaved but separate services.

Then the full timetable in March 23.

 

[JonathanH]

From September I think the idea is to run the existing TfL rail timetable but extend GWML services to Abbey Wood and GEML services to Paddington as interleaved but separate services.

The question would then be whether some Abbey Wood services continue to terminate at Paddington (Westbourne Park) since TfL Rail only run 6tph West of Paddington off-peak and 8tph peak. Indeed, the path for 8tph off-peak is blocked by GWR's Didcot Patkway service

 

[matt_world2004]

Yes, at some point. Doesn't mean it is general public at this stage. I don't think anything has been publicised about seeking volunteers yet.

They have been advertising for volunteers on the tfl intranet for months , youn sign up for a mailing list iirc.

Also I believe they will contact specific disability charities to get some of their members to be a part of a trial.(To test train evacuation of a wheelchair user for example).

 

[PlentyofOrange]

Can be general public, I was one of the testers for the Edinburgh Tram before it opened - the main aim was to try different crowd control methods for Murrayfield

The volunteers are internal to TfL only, advert went up within the last 4 weeks with a substantial amount internally, having already volunteered for the exercises.

 

[Mollman]

The volunteers are internal to TfL only, advert went up within the last 4 weeks with a substantial amount internally, having already volunteered for the exercises.

Thanks for the clarification

 

[ijmad]

I know all the volunteers are professionals, but you can't help but think a few phone videos might sneak out regardless.

 

[Dstock7080]

They have been advertising for volunteers on the tfl intranet for months , youn sign up for a mailing list iirc.

Also I believe they will contact specific disability charities to get some of their members to be a part of a trial.(To test train evacuation of a wheelchair user for example).

Staff email received today saying that:

Our programme has changed slightly but we are still holding all six of our Volunteer Exercises on Saturdays or Sundays in early 2022. We have to do some extra work at Christmas first to make sure our trains and tunnels are totally safe for large volumes of people as the safety of our volunteers is and always will be paramount. Also our next software update is happening over Christmas, which we need to see demonstrated and assured before we bring you in to volunteer!

 

[kevin_roche]

Staff email received today saying that:

Our programme has changed slightly but we are still holding all six of our Volunteer Exercises on Saturdays or Sundays in early 2022. We have to do some extra work at Christmas first to make sure our trains and tunnels are totally safe for large volumes of people as the safety of our volunteers is and always will be paramount. Also our next software update is happening over Christmas, which we need to see demonstrated and assured before we bring you in to volunteer!

It makes perfect sense that they do those tests once the updates to the Ventilation System have been completed.

It was reported as planned in the Elizabeth Line Readiness Committee Report.

5.1 We have received provisional endorsement of the Joint Trial Operations Plan
(JTOP) at the Interim Technical Assurance Panel (ITAP). This follows the
decision to approach TO in two phases. This phased approach will enable final
testing and software adjustments to the Tunnel Ventilation System (TVS)before
Christmas, providing time for the subsequent assurance approvals to be in place.

5.2 A ‘gate’ has been scheduled for December 2021 to provide the conditional Go/No
Go for Phase 2 subject to the successful completion of the TVS works. Once
approved, this will allow us to carry out planned volunteer evacuation exercises in
January 2022 including the emergency services.

 

[Horizon22]

Has anyone seen information about planned service patterns once the final phase of the opening is complete? i.e. Something more detailed than 24tph in the core during the peak, 12tph running west of Paddington, 12tph to Abbey Wood and 16tph east of Liverpool street (including the 4 terminators)?

This London Reconnections article from 2018 went into some depth on the expected service pattern west of Paddington:

Crossrail: Timetable for Success? - London Reconnections

The leading source for independent news and analysis about transport in London and beyond. Award-winning coverage of transport infrastructure and politics alongside stories about the history of the Capital's transport networks.

www.londonreconnections.com

With services terminating at Heathrow, Maidenhead and Reading and the existing services stopping at different intermediate stations depending on the final destination, this part of the line has a more complex timetable than east of Liverpool street (all stops either to Gidea Park or Shenfield) and Abbey Wood (all stops on all services).

The 2018 article suggested stations such as West Ealing and Hanwell would receive a significant uplift in services calling. Given I believe 12tph west of Paddington is still the plan, my assumption is this service pattern is likely to remain the plan. But if anyone knows otherwise I'd be interested to hear about it!

The whole thing needs a timetable rewrite to my knowledge which is why I think it will integrate with a May or December timetable change.

As others have said with the GWR Paddington - Didcot train running they can't path (or it will be very tight) to path them all (and requires a timetable rewrite as mentioned), and GWR are keen to hold onto these 2tph on the relief lines; they've previously been offered by MTR to take all the paths and just run a Didcot-Reading shuttle but its been declined.

I will be interested to see whether Hayes bay still sees 2tph as that isn't in many initial diagrams. Would be a bit of a waste of the capacity. The above one states:
4tph to T5 (currently 0tph before 2000)
2tph to T4 (currently 2tph but terminate T2/3 due to Covid)
2tph to Maidenhead (currently 0tph but peak extras)
2tph to Reading (currently 2tph)
2tph GWR Didcot (currently 1tph due to Covid, returning to 2tph in December)

This is of course a 2018 document and is almost ancient now!

 

[ijmad]

As others have said with the GWR Paddington - Didcot train running they can't path them all, and GWR are keen to hold onto these 2tph on the relief lines; they've previously been offered by MTR to take all the paths and just run a Didcot-Reading shuttle but its been declined. I will be interested to see whether Hayes bay still sees 2tph as that isn't in many initial diagrams.

Thought those had turned in to the Heathrow T5 terminators

 

[Horizon22]

Thought those had turned in to the Heathrow T5 terminators

Possibly they have, might be useful spare capacity in the event of late running then for Hayes bay.

 

[hwl]

Thought those had turned in to the Heathrow T5 terminators

No that was the West Drayton terminators

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Nov 2021 ==

The whole thing needs a timetable rewrite to my knowledge which is why I think it will integrate with a May or December timetable change.

As others have said with the GWR Paddington - Didcot train running they can't path (or it will be very tight) to path them all (and requires a timetable rewrite as mentioned), and GWR are keen to hold onto these 2tph on the relief lines; they've previously been offered by MTR to take all the paths and just run a Didcot-Reading shuttle but its been declined.

Do GWR still have the stock to run these given how thinly the 387s are spread given thge 80x cracks) or are these the extra services that MTR will run from December to/from Reading? (and MTR running a Didcot shuttle)

 

[kevin_roche]

I read somewhere that following the September start of trains running through the core they would temporarily be running at less than full service in the core in order to make it possible without a corresponding change on the GWML and GEML.

Page 54/55 of Agenda and Papers for the Elizabeth line readiness Committee July 2021

Replacement of Stage 4 with Stage 5b
5.1 The revised proposal for the introduction of Elizabeth line services will principally
see the replacement of Stage 4 with Stage 5b; the paper on Part 2 of the agenda
contains more detail. The introduction of Stage 5b will connect the central section
of Crossrail to the eastern and western branches simultaneously, to allow
Elizabeth line trains to operate from Reading and Heathrow in the west to Abbey
Wood and from Paddington to Shenfield in the east. This has been developed
around two principal requirements:
(a) provision of a level of service reduced from that which would apply in the
full (Stage 5c) timetable but sufficient to avoid inconsistent train loading or
sub surface platform crowding; and

(b) operation of a timetable based around the present pattern of service from
Reading, Heathrow and Shenfield enabling services to operate, without
substantial change, either into the London termini (Stages 4a and 5a+) or
through the Crossrail tunnel (Stage 5b).

 

[Acton1991]

The whole thing needs a timetable rewrite to my knowledge which is why I think it will integrate with a May or December timetable change.

As others have said with the GWR Paddington - Didcot train running they can't path (or it will be very tight) to path them all (and requires a timetable rewrite as mentioned), and GWR are keen to hold onto these 2tph on the relief lines; they've previously been offered by MTR to take all the paths and just run a Didcot-Reading shuttle but its been declined.

I will be interested to see whether Hayes bay still sees 2tph as that isn't in many initial diagrams. Would be a bit of a waste of the capacity. The above one states:
4tph to T5 (currently 0tph before 2000)
2tph to T4 (currently 2tph but terminate T2/3 due to Covid)
2tph to Maidenhead (currently 0tph but peak extras)
2tph to Reading (currently 2tph)
2tph GWR Didcot (currently 1tph due to Covid, returning to 2tph in December)

This is of course a 2018 document and is almost ancient now!

Can't see the need for GWR to run Didcot shuttles from Paddington - surely the western side of Crossrail should be handed to TfL to enable it to provide a level of service to all stations akin to the east, instead of cobbling together a mix of all-stations and skip-stops.

Passengers who want to travel all-stations to Didcot can surely change at Reading.

 

[matt_world2004]

There was never any plan for Hayes terminators in the original service. The current Hayes terminators will be extended to terminal 4 when full service resumes.

The bay platform at Hayes allows the service to continue running in the event of engineering works on the Heathrow branch or disruption preventing the branch being accessible.

 

[Horizon22]

Can't see the need for GWR to run Didcot shuttles from Paddington - surely the western side of Crossrail should be handed to TfL to enable it to provide a level of service to all stations akin to the east, instead of cobbling together a mix of all-stations and skip-stops.

Passengers who want to travel all-stations to Didcot can surely change at Reading.

Yes that may well be true, but again GWR are not keen on this (nor are their passengers it seems who often elect to take a 387 over a 345!). This will be a contractual thing to be resolved - maybe an action of GBR if it's in a suitable state by then. I imagine that once it runs past Paddington the convenience of this may well outweigh their comfort.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Nov 2021 ==

There was never any plan for Hayes terminators in the original service. The current Hayes terminators will be extended to terminal 4 when full service resumes.

The bay platform at Hayes allows the service to continue running in the event of engineering works on the Heathrow branch or disruption preventing the branch being accessible.

Sensible - the more I think about it it does add good engineering / disruption contingency.

 

[reddragon]

Yes that may well be true, but again GWR are not keen on this (nor are their passengers it seems who often elect to take a 387 over a 345!). This will be a contractual thing to be resolved - maybe an action of GBR if it's in a suitable state by then. I imagine that once it runs past Paddington the convenience of this may well outweigh their comfort.

Too right! You can get on a wonderful class 387 and enjoy a trip to London & in between. The class 345s are not really suited to 1 hour from Reading and switching to the fasts is rarely worth it, despite the locals sitting up to 15 mins at Reading.

 

[Pshambro]

Can't see the need for GWR to run Didcot shuttles from Paddington - surely the western side of Crossrail should be handed to TfL to enable it to provide a level of service to all stations akin to the east, instead of cobbling together a mix of all-stations and skip-stops.

Passengers who want to travel all-stations to Didcot can surely change at Reading.

From Twyford and Maidenhead towards Paddington the GWR services stop much less frequently than the TFL services and of course GWR will run a train that is more than 10 minutes late whereas TFL will cancel even when running only 2 TPH, so I hope TFL don’t get all paths on the reliefs

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Nov 2021 ==

The whole thing needs a timetable rewrite to my knowledge which is why I think it will integrate with a May or December timetable change.

As others have said with the GWR Paddington - Didcot train running they can't path (or it will be very tight) to path them all (and requires a timetable rewrite as mentioned), and GWR are keen to hold onto these 2tph on the relief lines; they've previously been offered by MTR to take all the paths and just run a Didcot-Reading shuttle but its been declined.

I will be interested to see whether Hayes bay still sees 2tph as that isn't in many initial diagrams. Would be a bit of a waste of the capacity. The above one states:
4tph to T5 (currently 0tph before 2000)
2tph to T4 (currently 2tph but terminate T2/3 due to Covid)
2tph to Maidenhead (currently 0tph but peak extras)
2tph to Reading (currently 2tph)
2tph GWR Didcot (currently 1tph due to Covid, returning to 2tph in December)

This is of course a 2018 document and is almost ancient now!

Seeing this service pattern makes me realise why Twyford is now in Southall situation with (after the TT change) services roughly 7 and 23 mins apart. Presumably the other 2TPH that start at Maidenhead fill these gaps so it’s only an issue at Twyford ?

 

[ijmad]

Depending on the situation with covid next year and whether London workers return to their offices or not, I wonder if there will even be a case for 24tph in the near future. Given TfL's coffers a the moment, might we see a lesser service that would only be ramped up when demand requires it?

Thameslink has never reached 24tph after all, I know there are pre-pandemic reasons for that, but it seems like any push to get to that level has been entirely muted by the pandemic. I bet the timetable will probably hover around 16-20tph for quite some time to come.

 

[hwl]

Depending on the situation with covid next year and whether London workers return to their offices or not, I wonder if there will even be a case for 24tph in the near future. Given TfL's coffers a the moment, might we see a lesser service that would only be ramped up when demand requires it?

Thameslink has never reached 24tph after all, I know there are pre-pandemic reasons for that, but it seems like any push to get to that level has been entirely muted by the pandemic. I bet the timetable will probably hover around 16-20tph for quite some time to come.

TfL have the trains and the staff.
A decent frequency on the branches and minimising crowding issues may be needed to help drive incremental usage.

Canary Wharf and the GEML branch (not much uplift) will be busy which doesn't leave much opportunity for reductions.

 

[Non Multi]

Depending on the situation with covid next year and whether London workers return to their offices or not, I wonder if there will even be a case for 24tph in the near future. Given TfL's coffers a the moment, might we see a lesser service that would only be ramped up when demand requires it?

Thameslink has never reached 24tph after all, I know there are pre-pandemic reasons for that, but it seems like any push to get to that level has been entirely muted by the pandemic. I bet the timetable will probably hover around 16-20tph for quite some time to come.

Also requires the so far rather flaky tech becoming ultra-ultra-dependable for peak 24tph.

 

[coppercapped]

Can't see the need for GWR to run Didcot shuttles from Paddington - surely the western side of Crossrail should be handed to TfL to enable it to provide a level of service to all stations akin to the east, instead of cobbling together a mix of all-stations and skip-stops.

Passengers who want to travel all-stations to Didcot can surely change at Reading.

This topic has been done to death in various forums and discussion groups since it was first announced that Crossrail was being extended to Reading.

The two sides of London have different markets. Shenfield is about 19 miles from Liverpool Street (a bit further than Slough is from Paddington) and Reading is 36 miles from Paddington - nearly twice as far. As a result the eastern side is more of a 'metro' operation and the western side from, arguably, Langley westwards is much more outer suburban with identifiably separate towns. In view of the longer journey length a more appropriate type of train is not a bad idea.

Also there is considerable traffic on the full Thames Valley axis through Reading - the sum of the flows between Slough, Maidenhead and Twyford and, for example, the technology centres around Didcot and Culham and in the reverse direction are significant. One only has to look at the number of people who do not get out of the train when it stops at Reading.

By forcing a change at Reading the journey times for all these people will be increased by up to 30 minutes off peak if the pattterns do not match. Any Radley to Maidenhead passenger will now have to change twice...

An operating constraint is that by reversing a westerly shuttle at Reading another platform will be occupied for 10 minutes or so twice an hour. Such a shuttle cannot share a platform with the Crossrail trains as they fully occupy a platform twice an hour for their layover. In view of all the other calls on line and platform capacity - reversing Cross-Country trains, freight trains, trains coming off the North Downs line getting to the maintenance depot and so on and so forth, blocking a platform for longer than necessary does not seem to be a good idea.

The world does not, and cannot, revolve around Crossrail.

 

[SynthD]

Depending on the situation with covid next year and whether London workers return to their offices or not, I wonder if there will even be a case for 24tph in the near future. Given TfL's coffers a the moment, might we see a lesser service that would only be ramped up when demand requires it?

Thameslink has never reached 24tph after all, I know there are pre-pandemic reasons for that, but it seems like any push to get to that level has been entirely muted by the pandemic. I bet the timetable will probably hover around 16-20tph for quite some time to come.

As the trains are bought and the staff are trained, not a whole lot would be saved by avoiding 24tph. It may be preferable to hit or to avoid 24tph for some minor reason, like nearby tube platforms become overcrowded or cleared.

 

[greyman42]

So when will you be able to travel from Farringdon to Canary Wharf?

 

[4-SUB 4732]

So when will you be able to travel from Farringdon to Canary Wharf?

Thats April isn’t it?

 

[fat_boy_pete]

Thats April isn’t it?

According to the latest update, the 'next two or three months' before they open. Confirms they are aiming for early March.

 

[mr_jrt]

This topic has been done to death in various forums and discussion groups since it was first announced that Crossrail was being extended to Reading.

The two sides of London have different markets. Shenfield is about 19 miles from Liverpool Street (a bit further than Slough is from Paddington) and Reading is 36 miles from Paddington - nearly twice as far. As a result the eastern side is more of a 'metro' operation and the western side from, arguably, Langley westwards is much more outer suburban with identifiably separate towns. In view of the longer journey length a more appropriate type of train is not a bad idea.

Also there is considerable traffic on the full Thames Valley axis through Reading - the sum of the flows between Slough, Maidenhead and Twyford and, for example, the technology centres around Didcot and Culham and in the reverse direction are significant. One only has to look at the number of people who do not get out of the train when it stops at Reading.

By forcing a change at Reading the journey times for all these people will be increased by up to 30 minutes off peak if the pattterns do not match. Any Radley to Maidenhead passenger will now have to change twice...

An operating constraint is that by reversing a westerly shuttle at Reading another platform will be occupied for 10 minutes or so twice an hour. Such a shuttle cannot share a platform with the Crossrail trains as they fully occupy a platform twice an hour for their layover. In view of all the other calls on line and platform capacity - reversing Cross-Country trains, freight trains, trains coming off the North Downs line getting to the maintenance depot and so on and so forth, blocking a platform for longer than necessary does not seem to be a good idea.

The world does not, and cannot, revolve around Crossrail.

Wasn't there an eventual aspiration for EWR to eventually extend from Oxford to terminate at Reading which would have all the problems you list? Maybe they'll run EWR out of Paddington

 

[coppercapped]

Wasn't there an eventual aspiration for EWR to eventually extend from Oxford to terminate at Reading which would have all the problems you list? Maybe they'll run EWR out of Paddington

Now there's an idea...

...but why stop there? With some skullduggery at Stratford EWR could run through the Crossrail tunnels at Paddington at turn off towards Cambridge.

An Outer Circle! What's not to like?

(PS - I don't think there was ever an 'aspiration' on the part of EWR to run through to Reading - more the result of a feverish imagination of a poster here or elsewhere or even, heaven forbid, a politician trying to look relevant).