Orion high speed logistics letting the train take the strain.

[Paula hewson]

It’s common knowledge in the haulage industry that there is an imbalance with far more going up to Scotland than coming down. So with all the limitations that a train has vs a truck, I imagine this will not be easy for them to overcome.

When I worked in haulage 25 yrs ago, empty running and getting back loads was a killer. Here we are and nowt has changed! And it will never will

 

[172007]

I'm not sure that is a live image to be honest!

Won't be live that said, no one is going to photoshop headlights on to a map to show trunk routes. So it may prove to be a good point made by Grumpy.

 

[92002]

I understand that the ORION Royal Mail service is operating today?

Running from Crewe to Shieldmuir on the late night. Then to Willesden via Warrington around 0300 and back to Crewe tomorrow.

 

[Starmill]

Running from Crewe to Shieldmuir on the late night. Then to Willesden via Warrington around 0300 and back to Crewe tomorrow.

Excellent stuff thanks

 

[92002]

Excellent stuff thanks

Hasn't left Warrington mail terminal yet. Due off at 2350.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Nov 2021 ==

Hasn't left Warrington mail terminal yet. Due off at 2350.

Now heading South. Left Shieldmuir 47L.passed Lockerbie 38L.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Nov 2021 ==

Hasn't left Warrington mail terminal yet. Due off at 2350.

Now heading South. Left Shieldmuir 47L.passed Lockerbie 38L.

Hasn't left Warrington mail terminal yet. Due off at 2350.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Nov 2021 ==


Now heading South. Left Shieldmuir 47L.passed Lockerbie 38L.

Now made Warrington. Has picked up time and left there on time.

 

[markymark2000]

Is the Orion Royal Mail service just replacing the normal royal Mail 325 train?

 

[Starmill]

Is the Orion Royal Mail service just replacing the normal royal Mail 325 train?

Isn't it in addition to Royal Mail's separate DB Cargo UK services?

 

[matacaster]

There is a decided imbalance with Scotland services. Rather than trying to get a backload from scotland all the way down to London, why not instead call in at a distribution centre in northern England and take a load to London from there- Or does that mean wrong number of empty containers in wrong place?

 

[Starmill]

There is a decided imbalance with Scotland services. Rather than trying to get a backload from scotland all the way down to London, why not instead call in at a distribution centre in northern England and take a load to London from there- Or does that mean wrong number of empty containers in wrong place?

As I understand it Royal Mail still use their terminal at Warrington as well as Shieldmuir and Willesden? Is that stop for mail or just drivers?

 

[172007]

This service, is it new business or, effectively, the usual extra Christmas build up work that has been done for years. Unless the usual extra mail services by Orian are ran inaddition to those it's a little smoke and mirrors.

 

[Bertie the bus]

You have to wonder why they are dragging their 2 units with a 57 on this service. It just seems ridiculous.

 

[Mag_seven]

You have to wonder why they are dragging their 2 units with a 57 on this service. It just seems ridiculous.

I was just about to ask the same question having just seen one of these services being dragged through Rugby. Has it got to do with the current high electricity prices I wonder?

 

[warwickshire]

You have to wonder why they are dragging their 2 units with a 57 on this service. It just seems ridiculous.

Maybe in case off failure.
Or maybe drivers working the units may not possibly sign them just the locomotives hence the temporary situation.
Just like some form off the old way ie locomotive and coaches.
But due to this situation locomotive and unit.

 

[Bertie the bus]

I was just about to ask the same question having just seen one of these services being dragged through Rugby. Has it got to do with the current high electricity prices I wonder?

Track access charges for a 319 + 768 are about 114p per mile. Track access charges for a 57 are 92p per mile. So by dragging they are almost doubling their track access charges. Add diesel used and electricity must be incredibly expensive if dragging is cheaper than running the units on electric.

 

[edwin_m]

Track access charges for a 319 + 768 are about 114p per mile. Track access charges for a 57 are 92p per mile. So by dragging they are almost doubling their track access charges. Add diesel used and electricity must be incredibly expensive if dragging is cheaper than running the units on electric.

So for London to Glasgow they are paying about £400 more in access, plus some more to position the locomotive. I suspect that's a smallis fraction of the costs and revenues of running the train.

 

[Bertie the bus]

So for London to Glasgow they are paying about £400 more in access, plus some more to position the locomotive. I suspect that's a smallis fraction of the costs and revenues of running the train.

Which is exactly the same argument you could use against these railfreight companies abandoning electric traction because electricity prices have increased. It doesn't matter what fraction of the total cost it is, dragging 2 serviceable EMUs 400 miles with a diesel loco is ludicrous. What does it possibly achieve?

 

[Starmill]

Which is exactly the same argument you could use against these railfreight companies abandoning electric traction because electricity prices have increased. It doesn't matter what fraction of the total cost it is, dragging 2 serviceable EMUs 400 miles with a diesel loco is ludicrous. What does it possibly achieve?

To be fair it's no more on Orion High Speed Logistics or Rail Operations UK Limited than it is on Freightliner or indeed any other operator to "achieve" anything beyond their own means. That's for government to consider, and decide how interventionist, or not, to be.

 

[Bertie the bus]

As I have already pointed out I seriously doubt it is cheaper when you add in track access charges and the cost of diesel. It isn't even comparable to other FOCs ditching electric traction as freight trains are hauled by loco's anyway so swapping 1 type for another isn't going to significantly increase track access charges. Adding a loco when one isn't required significantly increases costs.

 

[edwin_m]

As I have already pointed out I seriously doubt it is cheaper when you add in track access charges and the cost of diesel. It isn't even comparable to other FOCs ditching electric traction as freight trains are hauled by loco's anyway so swapping 1 type for another isn't going to significantly increase track access charges. Adding a loco when one isn't required significantly increases costs.

They don't do these things just for fun. It would either be reducing the total of all the costs involved, or some other reason as suggested by another poster above.

 

[Bertie the bus]

They don't do these things just for fun. It would either be reducing the total of all the costs involved, or some other reason as suggested by another poster above.

What reasons would they be then? The ones I read and immediately discounted? They have been conducting driver training runs for months and it would be extremely poor planning if they started a service and didn't have any competent drivers. As for the in case of failure reason, I can't think of a response to that that wouldn't be moderated.

 

[Starmill]

What reasons would they be then? The ones I read and immediately discounted?

If you know better than they do how to run their business I recommend that you should get in touch to let them know:

01332343295
orion@railopsgroup.co.uk

Please do share the response they send you here, by the way. We could all use a good laugh.

 

[Bill57p9]

The Mossend runs seem to be cancelled in RTT every day. Is Orion actually operating?

 

[Wyrleybart]

If you know better than they do how to run their business I recommend that you should get in touch to let them know:

01332343295
orion@railopsgroup.co.uk

Please do share the response they send you here, by the way. We could all use a good laugh.

Think I read somewhere that there is a paperwork issue with the 768 and 326 running under own power which is why 57s are hauling at the moment, but counter to that 768 and 326 have run south of Crewe UOP I believe

 

[AndyMike]

Small scale rail courier operations do exist - EMR for example provide space on board class 222s to carry small time sensitive parcels to London, having pioneered the service on HSTs and found it worthwhile enough to make arrangements on the 222s as well.

They're not exactly turn up and send for the public, however.

I didn’t know this. Who can make use of the service, and who looks after the parcels?

 

[Mollman]

The Mossend runs seem to be cancelled in RTT every day. Is Orion actually operating?

I think they are just doing the Shieldmuir - Princess Royal runs at the moment
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K38307/2021-12-21/detailed

Guessing once Christmas extras for Royal Mail are over and / or paperwork is sorted with units they might start the Mossend runs.

 

[Chopper]

It's running a daily return service Shieldmuir-PRDC. The units are still running under NRSC restrictions so the WTT paths have to be cancelled and rebid as 3Qxx paths.

 

[Dave W]

It's running a daily return service Shieldmuir-PRDC. The units are still running under NRSC restrictions so the WTT paths have to be cancelled and rebid as 3Qxx paths.

Sorry to be that guy but could you explain what NRSC restrictions are and also what the significance of “rebidding as 3Qxx paths” is, please?

 

[Chopper]

Every bit of rolling stock on the UK network has to be covered in the National Electronic Sectional Appendix(NESA) to operate over a given route. When new traction types are introduced not covered in NESA they can gain temporary clearance on specific routes by submitting a statement of compatibility to Network Rail with a third party usually undertaking the gauging work. If successful Network Rail will issue a Network Rail Statement of Compatibility (NRSC) which covers the traction for those routes (although often with specific prohibitions). Any service operating which requires an NRSC must have a Q headcode so the signallers know it is restricted. A mail service would usually operate as a class 1 but 1Qxx is reserved for Network Rail test trains, so in this case they operate as 3Qxx. As the WTT path was bid on the assumption the rolling stock would be in NESA by now the headcodes aren't valid, so the WTT path has to be re-bid in the same path but with a 3Qxx headcode. This is the simplified explanation!

 

[Dave W]

Every bit of rolling stock on the UK network has to be covered in the National Electronic Sectional Appendix(NESA) to operate over a given route. When new traction types are introduced not covered in NESA they can gain temporary clearance on specific routes by submitting a statement of compatibility to Network Rail with a third party usually undertaking the gauging work. If successful Network Rail will issue a Network Rail Statement of Compatibility (NRSC) which covers the traction for those routes (although often with specific prohibitions). Any service operating which requires an NRSC must have a Q headcode so the signallers know it is restricted. A mail service would usually operate as a class 1 but 1Qxx is reserved for Network Rail test trains, so in this case they operate as 3Qxx. As the WTT path was bid on the assumption the rolling stock would be in NESA by now the headcodes aren't valid, so the WTT path has to be re-bid in the same path but with a 3Qxx headcode. This is the simplified explanation!

Thanks! I knew about the Q bit but the rest was new to me!

 

[D365]

Think I read somewhere that there is a paperwork issue with the 768 and 326 running under own power which is why 57s are hauling at the moment, but counter to that 768 and 326 have run south of Crewe UOP I believe

That is exactly the first thought I had.