RMT Ballot Avanti West Coast Members For Strike Action

[Deafdoggie]

Avanti staff have played right into the governments hands. The government cost savings from a strike are now considered essential. The more strikes they can create the more money they save. Don't be expecting the government to wade in and solve this, whilst people aren't working it's saving them money, that's all that matters to them. The chances of Avanti solving this are zero. The chances of it being left to excalate, high.

 

[6Z09]

Avanti staff have played right into the governments hands. The government cost savings from a strike are now considered essential. The more strikes they can create the more money they save. Don't be expecting the government to wade in and solve this, whilst people aren't working it's saving them money, that's all that matters to them. The chances of Avanti solving this are zero. The chances of it being left to excalate, high.

You can't have been listening to Grant Shapps, all over the media this morning telling all how wonderful their plans are for anyone even contemplating a train journey investment flowing in at an incredible rate!

 

[74A]

Also this is First Group. With the number of rail managers they have available they will be able to run about 90% normal service making a strike much less effective.

 

[Starmill]

I would think that unless they're actually injuncted the strike will go ahead regardless of the company's line to be honest.

 

[greyman42]

Agree that sadly ,that is a way of sabotaging the ballot !
The rules are stacked against the trade unions. My point is that any employee should have the gumption to know one way or another about issues affecting their daily work conditions and vote accordingly, instead of playing some silly political game.

Who is doing the sabotaging?

 

[6Z09]

Who is doing the sabotaging?

The members that fail to vote.

 

[greyman42]

I would not call that sabotaging.

 

[6Z09]

I would not call that sabotaging.

What would you call it?
Those that don't vote are always assumed by management to be against the action! That is the spin that comes in company communications.

 

[43096]

Those that don't vote are always assumed by management to be against the action!

Which is a reasonable assumption, to be fair.

That is the spin that comes in company communications.

Of course the unions never spin their statements, do they? In comparison the company statements are pretty restrained - the uproar from the unions would be stupendous if the companies communicated in the same way as the unions.

 

[Robertj21a]

What would you call it?
Those that don't vote are always assumed by management to be against the action! That is the spin that comes in company communications.

Seems a logical view if they weren't sufficiently bothered to vote.

 

[greyman42]

I would just call it members exercising their right to not vote.

 

[AlterEgo]

What would you call it?
Those that don't vote are always assumed by management to be against the action! That is the spin that comes in company communications.

Considering they didn't vote for it, that seems fine by me - or ambivalent at best.

 

[185143]

I think they may, despite disruption, actually find considerable passenger and taxpayer support in that, too. I'd not want to cut anyone's pay, but there are certainly archaic practices on the railway not in keeping with any other industry*, and I would be happy that those be challenged even at the cost of a little disruption.

With regard to pensions I would have no issue with them becoming contributory rather than final-salary-based for new employees, and would again be happy for that fight to be had. Final salary pensions are basically non-viable and have been abolished across industry.

* e.g., as noted above, people asking for money to simply do their job properly**, or to start using a new piece of tech in their job which is simply part of the way that job evolves, e.g. scanning tickets instead of scribbling on them with a biro.
** I get why they want to pay the "scanning bonus", but to be honest I'd just discipline e.g. the bone-idle guards on the south WCML who mostly hide in the cab and don't do tickets - as I've said before, only about 3 of them bother, and you know it's the same ones as you recognise them. That or if it's not important due to the gatelines offer them the choice, if they prefer, to be downgraded to non-revenue guards at a commensurate pay reduction.

Seems to be a bit of a "thing" on WMT. I've done Crewe-Euston (or vice versa) several times without even seeing a member of staff, never mind getting tickets checked. That just shouldn't be possible given the amount of time involved, unless the train is full+standing obviously. Countless times too I've done a West Mids daytripper and not been checked all day, though the guards on the Snow Hill line do generally at least try.

That said, I was greatful for it once as I was on a morning peak service into Euston and realised near Nuneaton I'd forgot my railcard!

 

[Kite159]

Seems to be a bit of a "thing" on WMT. I've done Crewe-Euston (or vice versa) several times without even seeing a member of staff, never mind getting tickets checked. That just shouldn't be possible given the amount of time involved, unless the train is full+standing obviously. Countless times too I've done a West Mids daytripper and not been checked all day, though the guards on the Snow Hill line do generally at least try.

That said, I was greatful for it once as I was on a morning peak service into Euston and realised near Nuneaton I'd forgot my railcard!

Or even if they come out of the back/middle cabs they don't have a ticket machine with them so are unable to sell any tickets for passengers who are pay when challenged (Stafford to Rugeley).

I've been on some Crewe services where the guard changes at Rugby, from someone who was proactive in checking tickets and making announcements (regarding the short platforms) to a middle cab dweller who wasn't seen or heard from. Also for some London trains for the guard to check tickets after Crewe but not to be seen again when the train calls at the unbarriered stations [Stafford - Nuneaton]

 

[185143]

Or even if they come out of the back/middle cabs they don't have a ticket machine with them so are unable to sell any tickets for passengers who are pay when challenged (Stafford to Rugeley).

I've been on some Crewe services where the guard changes at Rugby, from someone who was proactive in checking tickets and making announcements (regarding the short platforms) to a middle cab dweller who wasn't seen or heard from.

Worst one I've had was a guard one Friday night who didn't say a word over the PA or get out of the cab at all, not even a mention of the short platform at Rugeley Trent Valley.

Which resulted in a passcom being pulled in the rear unit on departure from Rugeley. In response to this the guard finally finds the PA and apologised for the delay, berating the passenger and referring to them as, and I quote, "a complete moron who cannot follow simple instructions." Any way this could be worse? This happened a matter of hours before the first guard's strike on WMT over DOO.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Worst one I've had was a guard one Friday night who didn't say a word over the PA or get out of the cab at all, not even a mention of the short platform at Rugeley Trent Valley.

Them waffling over the top of the autoannouncer, as some do, is unhelpful, though.

 

[the sniper]

Worst one I've had was a guard one Friday night who didn't say a word over the PA or get out of the cab at all, not even a mention of the short platform at Rugeley Trent Valley.

Which resulted in a passcom being pulled in the rear unit on departure from Rugeley. In response to this the guard finally finds the PA and apologised for the delay, berating the passenger and referring to them as, and I quote, "a complete moron who cannot follow simple instructions." Any way this could be worse? This happened a matter of hours before the first guard's strike on WMT over DOO.

Were you personally in the front or the rear set?

 

[sd0733]

Worst one I've had was a guard one Friday night who didn't say a word over the PA or get out of the cab at all, not even a mention of the short platform at Rugeley Trent Valley.

The PA automatically plays an announcement in the rear set when the UDS is switched on so anyone who is in the wrong part hears it.

Thread seems to have headed way off topic though, it was originally about strike ballots on Avanti somehow turned into a general criticism of LNR guards!

 

[142blue]

FYI TSSA results 84% for strike action and 89% action short of

 

[Wolfie]

FYI TSSA results 84% for strike action and 89% action short of

Multiple TUs winning ballots for industrial action does suggest that there is something badly wrong.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Multiple TUs winning ballots for industrial action does suggest that there is something badly wrong.

Well, I can certainly say as a passenger that there is plenty wrong with Avanti and not an awful lot right with it, so I'm unsurprised the staff are having similar issues.

Do we know when the strike dates will be advised?

 

[Wolfie]

Well, I can certainly say as a passenger that there is plenty wrong with Avanti and not an awful lot right with it, so I'm unsurprised the staff are having similar issues.

Do we know when the strike dates will be advised?

I agree your first sentence. Virgin offered a decent service with gimmicks. Avanti offer precious little while pushing fares through the roof. They even cocked up their one true initiative Standard Premium.

 

[Jimini]

Their fare structure baffles me. I need to travel to Watford from Coventry tomorrow for work. Last "off peak" northbound train from Watford was about 1415, I think. Bonkers. Only other options were to pay £100+ for an open return, or go with LNWR, which involved changing at Northampton with a nice convenient 45 minute wait (appreciate that's a whole other TOC / discussion). Happy to be corrected of course as I was booking through a travel agent work portal, but the whole thing seemed absolutely mental to me!

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Industrial unrest is building at TPE too with the fail to agree on introduction of the integrale app which automates leave requests and shows an individual their roster. That will now lead to integrale being shut down in a couple of weeks at the end of the ERMA, there's also discussions regarding clipping and scanning tickets as TPE train managers/guards/conductors also do not get paid to scan them whereas many other TOCs receive 2-3p per scan. So that's two First TOCs with staff relations breaking down....

 

[Agent_Squash]

It’s almost like the DfT let the wrong bus operator run the show…

Personally, I don’t think revenue guards should have to be incentivised to scan tickets - it’s their job. I don’t go to work and expect an incentive payment when I reply to an email - nor does the vast majority of the population.

The DfT will just use this as the opportunity they need to force through their industrial reforms.

 

[PupCuff]

Industrial unrest is building at TPE too with the fail to agree on introduction of the integrale app which automates leave requests and shows an individual their roster. That will now lead to integrale being shut down in a couple of weeks at the end of the ERMA, there's also discussions regarding clipping and scanning tickets as TPE train managers/guards/conductors also do not get paid to scan them whereas many other TOCs receive 2-3p per scan. So that's two First TOCs with staff relations breaking down....

Heard talk of XC balloting too, the way it's going it'll probably be quicker soon to list the train companies where the conductors aren't on strike rather than the ones who are...

 

[Deafdoggie]

It’s almost like the DfT let the wrong bus operator run the show…

Personally, I don’t think revenue guards should have to be incentivised to scan tickets - it’s their job. I don’t go to work and expect an incentive payment when I reply to an email - nor does the vast majority of the population.

The DfT will just use this as the opportunity they need to force through their industrial reforms.

It's a double edged sword. We get bonus payments for going over targets (non railway) & it does incentive people. But I'm not sure 2p would! The good thing would be getting those guards out of the back cab who currently do nothing. The bad news would be guards scanning tickets to earn the bonus but doing nothing about invalid tickets as they want to scan more to get paid more. Paper tickets would probably get nothing more than a glance as they hunt down more tickets to scan!

 

[LowLevel]

Industrial unrest is building at TPE too with the fail to agree on introduction of the integrale app which automates leave requests and shows an individual their roster. That will now lead to integrale being shut down in a couple of weeks at the end of the ERMA, there's also discussions regarding clipping and scanning tickets as TPE train managers/guards/conductors also do not get paid to scan them whereas many other TOCs receive 2-3p per scan. So that's two First TOCs with staff relations breaking down....

"Many" operators getting paid for scanning tickets is I believe Northern as a trial which ends soon.

I find the issues with Integrale interesting as XC conductors have been kicking off about access being withdrawn No doubt the Union Men wanting a payment to "Share in the Company's Success and Savings" as a consequence of using it.

No more dubious cancelling signatures in the leave book on busy days and actually being able to check my roster in real time seems to be a winner to me! I was using such a system 13 years ago before I joined the railway.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Industrial unrest is building at TPE too with the fail to agree on introduction of the integrale app which automates leave requests and shows an individual their roster. That will now lead to integrale being shut down in a couple of weeks at the end of the ERMA, there's also discussions regarding clipping and scanning tickets as TPE train managers/guards/conductors also do not get paid to scan them whereas many other TOCs receive 2-3p per scan. So that's two First TOCs with staff relations breaking down....

If every company balloted for strike action over an ERP type app, most commercial companies would have done so because SAP is utterly awful for the end user, and that's what most firms use. I've had to use various mechanisms for requesting leave over the years and that's just how work is. Stuff changes, and because the company is paying me I have to put up with it, and there is nothing wrong with that. The company paying me to do the work is the one who gets to pick what tools I use for it.

I've not used Integrale, but this does not to me seem a valid reason to strike in the slightest. This is just a change of procedure, happens all the time.

 

[brick60000]

I've not used Integrale, but this does not to me seem a valid reason to strike in the slightest. This is just a change of procedure, happens all the time.

is anybody actually able to provide a sensible reason for why such an app should even need to be agreed by a union? Let alone failed to agree.

there are battles worth fighting that will win public support and will not cause a mass abandonment of rail by the public and government alike. Unless somebody can explain to the contrary - to me, this is not one of them.