DannyMich2018
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The 11.22 Kettering to Nottingham (ex St Pancras). Full and standing leaving Market Harborough at least 50 standing in the rear 2 coaches!!
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How busy have your trains been?
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Yesterday was on:
0750 Cambridge-Liverpool Street. Very lightly loaded 8-car Class 317 (only 10 people max in the second carriage with me). I suspect shoulder peak demand is low as people move into capacity in the high peak, or defer travel to off-peak for a lower fare (I was on a good value Advance single bought a couple of days before). Also it was Friday.
1540 Liverpool Street-Stansted (as far as Bishop's Stortford). 12 car Class 745. Very well loaded with around 75% of seats occupied, and the majority of the passengers continuing to Stansted.
1642 Bishop's Stortford-Cambridge (1558 ex-Liverpool Street). 5 car Class 720. Most seat pairs/bays occupied by at least one person, most passengers travelling through to Cambridge.
Cambridge station busy like a pre-Covid Friday evening. Very quiet in the morning just before high peak arrivals.
0750 Cambridge-Liverpool Street. Very lightly loaded 8-car Class 317 (only 10 people max in the second carriage with me). I suspect shoulder peak demand is low as people move into capacity in the high peak, or defer travel to off-peak for a lower fare (I was on a good value Advance single bought a couple of days before). Also it was Friday.
1540 Liverpool Street-Stansted (as far as Bishop's Stortford). 12 car Class 745. Very well loaded with around 75% of seats occupied, and the majority of the passengers continuing to Stansted.
1642 Bishop's Stortford-Cambridge (1558 ex-Liverpool Street). 5 car Class 720. Most seat pairs/bays occupied by at least one person, most passengers travelling through to Cambridge.
Cambridge station busy like a pre-Covid Friday evening. Very quiet in the morning just before high peak arrivals.
How busy would that have been pre Covid? Presumably pretty full south of Harlow.
Wasn't often on it, but certainly all seats taken south of Broxbourne/Cheshunt, at least.
Thanks. And that’s the industry problem in a nutshell. That one train would have been responsible for something in the region of £1.5m income a year, and now it is providing around £500k at best.
Let's be honest, the commuting experience used to be grim. I used to watch pairs of class 315s arrive at Liverpool Street and tip out hundreds of people and think to myself "how did they all fit in there?" Who would willingly go back to that?
For most, I think it's simply the time and money commitment of travelling to the office when most of the job can successfully done from home (and has been for the last 19/20 months).
Who can blame people for wanting to be back to their families at 5pm each evening, rather than 7pm each evening and not be spending £4/5k+ per year in the process?
Some will, some won’t; but the fact of the matter is that their fares paid for the railway. And without them means substantially more taxpayer support, or a ‘smaller’ railway, or a bit of both.
Although strictly speaking it was the passengers on 321s / 379s tipping out at Liverpool St that did it, the 315 passengers were less lucrative.
And I'm permanently grappling in my head about what, if anything, can be done otherwise.
Over time a bit more demand is going to return organically, but I'm growing to accept that peak period commuting will never return to 2019 levels (at least not for quite a number of years into the future).
The only other thing that might give would be to be a bit more tactical on peak fares, possibly to try and fill up shoulder peak capacity a little more ("trading up" from the off-peak).
Answers on a crystal ball, please...
Yes almost as soon as I hit the post button I realised that you meant the longer distance trains although the class 317/321/379 trains were almost as bad.
I was on the 13:49 Guildford to Woking service on Saturday. Was fairly busy but I managed to get 2 seats to myself.
We got held outside Woking for a reason I couldn't figure out. We were told we were waiting for a free platform but I couldn't see anything blocking our platform on Real Time Trains.
I did wonder if they could change the peak period but do that and people will shift their travel times.
We got held outside Woking for a reason I couldn't figure out. We were told we were waiting for a free platform but I couldn't see anything blocking our platform on Real Time Trains.
I did wonder if they could change the peak period but do that and people will shift their travel times.
DannyMich2018
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Usual Saturday morning busyness at Leicester. 10.49 to Birmingham NS 3 car 170397 standing room only. Must be 100 standing!! Not sure why so busy probably Christmas shoppers adding to crowds despite no big football games today. A busy but not crowded 11.06 to Sheffield seen.
ChiefPlanner
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Birmingham German Market also ....
DannyMich2018
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ChiefPlanner
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Started on the 4th November
"German" only in the sense that products from Lidl and Aldi get resold by Eastern Europeans at a multiple of many times their price...
Awful market these days, sadly, compared to the first year or two when actual German stallholders brought handcrafted and difficult to find items from Germany.
Back to topic: Crewe station car park during the week just finished was up to about 80-90% full, and the station pretty busy during peak hours, which is certainly encouraging.
Awful market these days, sadly, compared to the first year or two when actual German stallholders brought handcrafted and difficult to find items from Germany.
Back to topic: Crewe station car park during the week just finished was up to about 80-90% full, and the station pretty busy during peak hours, which is certainly encouraging.
Iskra
Established Member
I’m on the way from Sheffield to Manchester Xmas Market.
It’s very busy from Sheffield, but a TP 6-car set has saved the day to make it tolerable.
Unfortunately, the drunks are out already and the inside of the train resembles the floor of a quiet suburban bus shelter where kids hang out, but that’s not TP’s fault.
It’s very busy from Sheffield, but a TP 6-car set has saved the day to make it tolerable.
Unfortunately, the drunks are out already and the inside of the train resembles the floor of a quiet suburban bus shelter where kids hang out, but that’s not TP’s fault.
MalaiseForever
Member
I’ve travelling a lot between Crewe and Milton Keynes in the last few months. The LNWR service at half 7 on a Sunday is generally busy. However, the same time during the week they are pretty empty. The Friday lunch time services are also busy.
Andy Pacer
Established Member
Good load on the mid morning Leeds - Carlisle today (0920 ish off Leeds), 3 car 158 with most seats taken.
Emphasising this again. Passengers coming back to the railway at weekends is of course great.
But mid-week still has many lightly loaded trains.
Peregrine 4903
Established Member
An example is that the 16:15 train from Milton Keynes Central to London Euston on Monday - Thursday has plenty of seats left free. But on a Friday evening and I would presume Saturday and Sunday too the service is full and standing.
MalaiseForever
Member
I was on a train around that time last Friday and there were people standing, but there was enough empty seats for everyone to sit down. For whatever reason people are somewhat reticent to sit next to each other, but seem happy enough to stand crowded together in vestibule areas.
Been like that for years. Nothing new.
MalaiseForever
Member
I was wondering if it was some weird covid thing. Either way, it suits me because it means I always get a seat.
AJP62
Member
On 8.02 Macclesfield to Manchester - prime commuter train from MAC which could have standers even as an 11 car.
11 cars today and lucky if it's 25% occupied - about 10 folk down here in coach U!
11 cars today and lucky if it's 25% occupied - about 10 folk down here in coach U!
That's interesting. The Hallam stoppers in and out of Leeds are about 50 -75% full in the peaks now.
Noted 50 passengers at Loughborough just now waiting to board the 1032 to London, which was already pretty busy when it arrived. The standard short formation trains are not working well on EMR Intercity, generally - this on a Wednesday.
Station car park is 75% full too.
Station car park is 75% full too.
DannyMich2018
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I agree with you completely. I travel on EMR regularly and even as you say above weekday non peak service load fair. Weekends can be horrendously busy. Took 10.13 from Leicester to Kettering Monday was about 50-60% full. New trains on order need to be more than 5 coaches! Weekday peak services can get very busy too.
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