Lumo and the airline model - works for the railway?

[Mike395]

I write this on board a Lumo service just leaving Newcastle - and events whilst we were stationary made me wonder, is Lumo’s low cost model for onboard service sustainable long term without reputational damage?

Good to see the train fully loaded and there are certainly positives to the Lumo experience - but staff have seemingly been told to treat passengers like they’re low-cost airline passengers, not rail travelers. From the airline-esque onboard announcements (such as announcing the type of train) to the model for catering, this is noticeable in several ways.

However the most noticeable, and troublesome, aspect of this in my view is the boarding experience. Staff rush people on several minutes before departure with an implication that the train will leave imminently, even at Newcastle with a red signal visible and 5 minutes before our booked departure time. This seems pointless to me - and actively ensures the boarding process is as stressful as possible rather than stretched out over several minutes like usual. I also got told off by platform staff for stepping off for some fresh air at Newcastle and walking over to the platform vending machines.

This general airline type attitude would make me seriously reconsider using Lumo again on principle despite the low ticket cost (and superior seats but that’s for another thread!). Which is a shame as the rest of their concept is strong. One of the onboard staff confirmed when challenged re the rushed boarding that it’s company policy and the staff hate doing it, so hopefully that’ll change. But for me the question remains - and I’d be interested in others’ views on Lumo’s LCC style ‘features’. (But, with my mod hat on, without it becoming a master thread please!)

 

[cambsy]

I think Lumo‘s LCC style features are just fine, having done a Kings Cross-Edinburgh return with them, I found the boarding process just fine, I’m quick boarder anyway, and didnt notice any undue hurrying of people. Getting off a train for fresh air is a bit risky anyway, and not something, I really do, and i would check with any platform staff, and dont forget, they are trying to board people, so a passenger wandering off isn’t helpful.

I found the catering side of things just fine, and the Lumo eats was nice touch, and the man who bought my order to my seat, couldn’t have been more helpful and enthusiastic, so definitely a plus for me. the announcements, LCC style, was fine with me, and ts nice have different style, as the same old thing every trip on trains, gets boring. I found the trains themselves, nice to travel on, with the head rest, and reading light in back of seat, nice touches, and they are definitely the best 800 to travel on.

My overall impression of Lumo, so far is very positive, with the trains being good to travel on, the staff helpful, friendly and chatty, The Lumo eats is good too, with food pre ordered and bought to seat. Definitely think, its good to have an operator come in and do things in a different way, and the railways need to move with the times, and if an LCC way of doing things, brings in more custom to the railways, then its no bad thing to me, but of course time will tell, how well it works on the railways, and if its a success, I certainly wish Lumo success in the future, and for sure will be using them quite often in my travels.

 

[greyman42]

I also got told off by platform staff for stepping off for some fresh air at Newcastle and walking over to the platform vending machines.

Are you referring to Lumo staff?

 

[Mike395]

Yes it was a Lumo member of staff.

 

[Spaceflower]

I write this on board a Lumo service just leaving Newcastle - and events whilst we were stationary made me wonder, is Lumo’s low cost model for onboard service sustainable long term without reputational damage?

Good to see the train fully loaded and there are certainly positives to the Lumo experience - but staff have seemingly been told to treat passengers like they’re low-cost airline passengers, not rail travelers. From the airline-esque onboard announcements (such as announcing the type of train) to the model for catering, this is noticeable in several ways.

However the most noticeable, and troublesome, aspect of this in my view is the boarding experience. Staff rush people on several minutes before departure with an implication that the train will leave imminently, even at Newcastle with a red signal visible and 5 minutes before our booked departure time. This seems pointless to me - and actively ensures the boarding process is as stressful as possible rather than stretched out over several minutes like usual. I also got told off by platform staff for stepping off for some fresh air at Newcastle and walking over to the platform vending machines.

This general airline type attitude would make me seriously reconsider using Lumo again on principle despite the low ticket cost (and superior seats but that’s for another thread!). Which is a shame as the rest of their concept is strong. One of the onboard staff confirmed when challenged re the rushed boarding that it’s company policy and the staff hate doing it, so hopefully that’ll change. But for me the question remains - and I’d be interested in others’ views on Lumo’s LCC style ‘features’. (But, with my mod hat on, without it becoming a master thread please!)

This is not Lumo's strategy in my humble opinion but a sign of the times. I've experienced similar attitudes to customer service much more frequently and across a wide range of sectors since the beginning of the pandemic. Extra pressure on staff and a big intake of new staff from non customer facing roles perhaps...?

 

[Mainliner]

Rushed boarding on the ECML is nothing new, having seen crowds rushing to board late-arriving trains at KGX, which depart mere minutes later, many times…

 

[Mike395]

Rushed boarding on the ECML is nothing new, having seen crowds rushing to board late-arriving trains at KGX, which depart mere minutes later, many times…

Agree rushed boarding is nothing new - but staff rushing you on when you’ve got no-one behind you and there’s 5 minutes until the booked departure time isn’t something I’ve ever experienced previously.

 

[greyman42]

Yes it was a Lumo member of staff.

What business of theirs was it if you were using a vending machine on the platform?
And as for the telling off, i would of given as good as i got. I would put in a complaint.

 

[185143]

What business of theirs was it if you were using a vending machine on the platform?
And as for the telling off, i would of given as good as i got. I would put in a complaint.

Because you are depriving them of trolley revenue possibly? Very much clutching at straws with that one mind!

 

[yorkie]

Agree rushed boarding is nothing new - but staff rushing you on when you’ve got no-one behind you and there’s 5 minutes until the booked departure time isn’t something I’ve ever experienced previously.

Nor me! I've known it happen with maybe 2 minutes to go and a red signal which I felt was a bit OTT but certainly not with 5 minutes.

If this happens to me, I will be challenging them.

 

[yorksrob]

I write this on board a Lumo service just leaving Newcastle - and events whilst we were stationary made me wonder, is Lumo’s low cost model for onboard service sustainable long term without reputational damage?

Good to see the train fully loaded and there are certainly positives to the Lumo experience - but staff have seemingly been told to treat passengers like they’re low-cost airline passengers, not rail travelers. From the airline-esque onboard announcements (such as announcing the type of train) to the model for catering, this is noticeable in several ways.

However the most noticeable, and troublesome, aspect of this in my view is the boarding experience. Staff rush people on several minutes before departure with an implication that the train will leave imminently, even at Newcastle with a red signal visible and 5 minutes before our booked departure time. This seems pointless to me - and actively ensures the boarding process is as stressful as possible rather than stretched out over several minutes like usual. I also got told off by platform staff for stepping off for some fresh air at Newcastle and walking over to the platform vending machines.

This general airline type attitude would make me seriously reconsider using Lumo again on principle despite the low ticket cost (and superior seats but that’s for another thread!). Which is a shame as the rest of their concept is strong. One of the onboard staff confirmed when challenged re the rushed boarding that it’s company policy and the staff hate doing it, so hopefully that’ll change. But for me the question remains - and I’d be interested in others’ views on Lumo’s LCC style ‘features’. (But, with my mod hat on, without it becoming a master thread please!)

It's when they stand at the back of the carriage shooting "brace, brace" you've got to start worrying

 

[Starmill]

The only place I've experiences this sort of thing Manchester Piccadilly, where I was asked to walk behind the red line when I was walking parallel with the train I was about to board. Our departure time was still 3 minutes to go, and the doorway I'd been closest to was blocked by luggage. I was asked to either board at ky closest door or remain behind the red line.

 

[Sheridan]

Nor me! I've known it happen with maybe 2 minutes to go and a red signal which I felt was a bit OTT but certainly not with 5 minutes.

If this happens to me, I will be challenging them.

Was the example with a red signal at a station with Train Ready To Start equipment?

 

[Spur365]

I write this on board a Lumo service just leaving Newcastle - and events whilst we were stationary made me wonder, is Lumo’s low cost model for onboard service sustainable long term without reputational damage?

Good to see the train fully loaded and there are certainly positives to the Lumo experience - but staff have seemingly been told to treat passengers like they’re low-cost airline passengers, not rail travelers. From the airline-esque onboard announcements (such as announcing the type of train) to the model for catering, this is noticeable in several ways.

However the most noticeable, and troublesome, aspect of this in my view is the boarding experience. Staff rush people on several minutes before departure with an implication that the train will leave imminently, even at Newcastle with a red signal visible and 5 minutes before our booked departure time. This seems pointless to me - and actively ensures the boarding process is as stressful as possible rather than stretched out over several minutes like usual. I also got told off by platform staff for stepping off for some fresh air at Newcastle and walking over to the platform vending machines.

This general airline type attitude would make me seriously reconsider using Lumo again on principle despite the low ticket cost (and superior seats but that’s for another thread!). Which is a shame as the rest of their concept is strong. One of the onboard staff confirmed when challenged re the rushed boarding that it’s company policy and the staff hate doing it, so hopefully that’ll change. But for me the question remains - and I’d be interested in others’ views on Lumo’s LCC style ‘features’. (But, with my mod hat on, without it becoming a master thread please!)

You could see today how their operation is flawed if things go wrong. You pay for what you get etc.
They have no station staff (well don't at KGX).
Today the 1025 is cancelled due to a train fault.
At 1020 it's still on time.
Delayed then cancelled. No one knows what going on.
LNER having to pick the pieces up. The 1100/1130/1230 lner trains all full and standing as a result inconveniencing LNER pax.
They really need a back up if things go wrong. What it is who knows!
It's a huge risk booking with them.

 

[Master29]

Based on what is being said here it's soon very likely the Easyjet/Ryanair style criticisms will now doubt spring forth but it should be interesting to see how there may be further no frills type TOC's springing up but not counting any chickens just yet.

 

[Starmill]

The 1100/1130/1230 lner trains all full and standing as a result inconveniencing LNER pax.

To be fair LNER are unlikely to provide alternative travel to other operators (not just Lumo) on trains which would have been at capacity anyway.

 

[Deafdoggie]

You could see today how their operation is flawed if things go wrong. You pay for what you get etc.
They have no station staff (well don't at KGX).
Today the 1025 is cancelled due to a train fault.
At 1020 it's still on time.
Delayed then cancelled. No one knows what going on.
LNER having to pick the pieces up. The 1100/1130/1230 lner trains all full and standing as a result inconveniencing LNER pax.
They really need a back up if things go wrong. What it is who knows!
It's a huge risk booking with them.

No more risky than Hull Trains or Grand Central.
Loads of TOCs don't know when their own services are cancelled. Many show "delayed" long after departure time and when the train is cancelled.

 

[JonathanH]

They really need a back up if things go wrong. What it is who knows!

When they are running the full service it might be a little easier to step up trains but the current issue is only having one unit at the London end overnight that is stabled in a siding at Ferme Park rather than going for a look over at Bounds Green. 803003 was still parked in the siding when I passed this afternoon.

Quite how it becomes a failure before service is disappointing - they really should be reliable enough to be stabled for twelve hours and still work in the morning.

It does seem a bit easy to fall back on a cancellation as well. Arguably if they don't have a train for the 1025 departure today, they should have used the incoming unit from Edinburgh (King's Cross arrival 1315) and run the 1348 under short term planning with today's unit knocked into shape for tomorrow.

 

[TheBigD]

When they are running the full service it might be a little easier to step up trains but the current issue is only having one unit at the London end overnight that is stabled in a siding at Ferme Park rather than going for a look over at Bounds Green. 803003 was still parked in the siding when I passed this afternoon.

Quite how it becomes a failure before service is disappointing - they really should be reliable enough to be stabled for twelve hours and still work in the morning.

It does seem a bit easy to fall back on a cancellation as well. Arguably if they don't have a train for the 1025 departure today, they should have used the incoming unit from Edinburgh (King's Cross arrival 1315) and run the 1348 under short term planning with today's unit knocked into shape for tomorrow.

When a full services is in operation (spring next year?) weekday arrivals at Kings Cross are at 0105, 1050, 1348, 1545 and 2047. Departures are at 0545, 1045, 1218, 1436 and 2018. Stepping up looks OK for 1050/1045 and 2047/2018, but pretty dire for 1348/1218 and 1545/1436. But if there trains are fully booked (394 seats) then it may be necessary.

Edinburgh arrivals are at 0048, 1010, 1517, 1641 and 1915 with departures at 0614, 0911, 1114, 1612, 1958. With the exception of the 1641/1612 there's not a lot of scope to step up at Edinburgh though it may be possible to get the 5th unit into service if a available at Craigentinny.

 

[Ianno87]

When a full services is in operation (spring next year?) weekday arrivals at Kings Cross are at 0105, 1050, 1348, 1545 and 2047. Departures are at 0545, 1045, 1218, 1436 and 2018. Stepping up looks OK for 1050/1045 and 2047/2018, but pretty dire for 1348/1218 and 1545/1436. But if there trains are fully booked (394 seats) then it may be necessary.

Edinburgh arrivals are at 0048, 1010, 1517, 1641 and 1915 with departures at 0614, 0911, 1114, 1612, 1958. With the exception of the 1641/1612 there's not a lot of scope to step up at Edinburgh though it may be possible to get the 5th unit into service if a available at Craigentinny.

Benefit of modern Technology and the majority of passengers being on Advance tickets means you could text passengers of "stepped up" trains in Advance about the delayed departure, so they could delay their own journey to the station.

 

[tornado]

Does anyone know the real cost of transporting a passenger from Kings Cross to Edinburgh on, say 80% average occupancy of a Class 80x? I'm wondering whether LUMO can actually turn a profit with 60% of fares at £30?

 

[Starmill]

Does anyone know the real cost of transporting a passenger from Kings Cross to Edinburgh on, say 80% average occupancy of a Class 80x? I'm wondering whether LUMO can actually turn a profit with 60% of fares at £30?

It depends how you choose to allocate the fixed costs of leasing, administration and 'home' functions like 'human resources' and customer contact. In the case of First Group these kinds of functions are already in place elsewhere and available to Lumo at very little or no extra cost.

If you take only the direct costs of operation, such as the crew hours and the electricity used it will easily be profitable.

 

[Horizon22]

It depends how you choose to allocate the fixed costs of leasing, administration and 'home' functions like 'human resources' and customer contact. In the case of First Group these kinds of functions are already in place elsewhere and available to Lumo at very little or no extra cost.

If you take only the direct costs of operation, such as the crew hours and the electricity used it will easily be profitable.

I imagine train leasing would probably be one of the most expensive parts and also track access which is a direct cost too.

 

[Kingham West]

Presumably some of the passengers will be abstracted from LNER, so this will be a cost to the industry , and should be recharged against LUMO, however I have no idea how many are abstracted , and how many are new to rail.