Chiltern Railways Fare Evasion

[flagella21]

Bought a ticket for my intended travel route with Chiltern, but missed my stop. As soon as I realised my mistake I bought another ticket to complete the journey, however, that ticket did not include 2 stops because I bought it after having passed those stops. I then got questioned at the end station by a ticket officer and had to give them my details.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Welcome to the forum.

Don't try to write to Chiltern just yet: almost certainly they haven't given you anything with a case reference on, and writing without one will give some poor soul in the offices an almost impossible job of trying to match your email up with your case. As well as that, my understanding is that Chiltern contract this sort of work out to an organisation called 'Transport Investigations Limited' (TIL) so not only will your email have to get itself associated with the right case, but it will have to go to a different office.

When TIL do write to you (which will probably be in a few days or weeks time, but could take up to six months) then that's the time to respond, and explain that you have made a mistake, that you are sorry, and that you will take steps to avoid doing it again. Try not to be deterred by the tone of the letter from TIL - at first glance it will probably look like they have already decided to take you to court, but read it closely and you will see that they are giving you the opportunity to give your side of the story. @Hadders often comments on threads like this with some excellent advice - you can see an example of it at https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/til-child-short-ticket-next-steps.224435/post-5386948. With some luck, TIL will understand that you made a mistake and will agree an out of court settlement. With rather less luck, you may have to ask them a number of times if they will agree to settle out of court, but the chances of resolving this before it goes to court are good.

 

[AlterEgo]

Where did you start your trip, and where was your first ticket valid to? And where was your second ticket valid from?

How did you return to your intended stop?

What time of day was this?

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

To be brutally honest what you've done is purchased a ticket for each end of your journey with a gap in the middle. Mistake or not that is a criminal offence and this is a serious matter. I've put below the advice I normally give to people who request help from the forum in similar circumstances to yours.

You are likely to receive a letter from the train company (or an investigation company acting on their behalf) which will probably take a few weeks to arrive saying that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company would be well within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be a few hundred pounds plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter when it arrives (with personal details removed) and I'm sure members on here will be happy to assist in proof reading your reply.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi there,

So, I got on the Chiltern railways train and bought a ticket for my travel route. However, 2 stations after my station I realised that I had missed my stop, which was very stupid of me and can possibly be accounted to the fact that I was very tipsy after coming home from the pub. As soon as I realised my mistake, I immediately bought another ticket to complete the journey to Marylebone Station (end station). I, therefore, ended up having two tickets for the journey. However, due to my mistake, these two tickets did not include/cover two of the stops of the entire route. I did not realise that I had made that mistake until I was being questioned by a ticket officer at Marylebone station. I tried to explain to him what had happened but he did not give me a chance to explain anything, and I ended up giving him my details, and he told me that I would receive a letter for fare evasion. I am now planning on writing an email explaining what had happened to highlight that I was never intending on paying less (otherwise I would not have bothered to buy the second ticket in the first place) and I actually ended up paying more for both of my tickets than a single ticket would have been for the entire route. Since it is my very first time that something like this has happened to me and since I am a bit scared that they will start a court case (after reading through other threads), I was wondering if anybody could help me/give me tips for what I should write in my email. Also, shall I mention that I actually paid more, or shall I just focus on apologising and admitting my mistake?

Any help is appreciated - thank you!

I trust the 2 tickets were not Birmingham Snow Hill to Birmingham Moor Street and Wembley to Marylebone....

 

[30907]

I trust the 2 tickets were not Birmingham Snow Hill to Birmingham Moor Street and Wembley to Marylebone....

The OP states that the combined fares exceeded the throughout fare, so probably not the first one .

 

[WesternLancer]

The OP states that the combined fares exceeded the throughout fare, so probably not the first one .

Ah - good point. I note the OP has not been back to clarify a bit more info ref their journey so unsure if much more can be offered in the way of advice unless they do so.

 

[flagella21]

Welcome to the forum.

Don't try to write to Chiltern just yet: almost certainly they haven't given you anything with a case reference on, and writing without one will give some poor soul in the offices an almost impossible job of trying to match your email up with your case. As well as that, my understanding is that Chiltern contract this sort of work out to an organisation called 'Transport Investigations Limited' (TIL) so not only will your email have to get itself associated with the right case, but it will have to go to a different office.

When TIL do write to you (which will probably be in a few days or weeks time, but could take up to six months) then that's the time to respond, and explain that you have made a mistake, that you are sorry, and that you will take steps to avoid doing it again. Try not to be deterred by the tone of the letter from TIL - at first glance it will probably look like they have already decided to take you to court, but read it closely and you will see that they are giving you the opportunity to give your side of the story. @Hadders often comments on threads like this with some excellent advice - you can see an example of it at https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/til-child-short-ticket-next-steps.224435/post-5386948. With some luck, TIL will understand that you made a mistake and will agree an out of court settlement. With rather less luck, you may have to ask them a number of times if they will agree to settle out of court, but the chances of resolving this before it goes to court are good.

Thank you for your reply and help - I followed the advice and waited for the letter from TIL which has arrived in the meantime. I did respond to them, explaining what had happened, apologising, outlining that it was never my intention to pay less (which is hopefully highlighted by the fact that I bought a second ticket after realising my mistake), and stating that I am prepared to pay for whatever fine they think suitable for not covering two stops of my journey.

Unfortunately, I just received a second letter stating that the report of this matter alleges that I failed to pay the correct fare with an intention to of travelling without having previously paid the correct amount and that they see no reason why this investigation should not proceed.

I am a bit scared now that they will actually summon me to court - since they didn't mention any possibility to settle out of court or paying a fine... what would your advice be on how to proceed to achieve an out of court settlement? Shall I contact them again explicitly asking for it or is this the point where it would be wise to involve a lawyer?

 

[flagella21]

Welcome to the forum!

To be brutally honest what you've done is purchased a ticket for each end of your journey with a gap in the middle. Mistake or not that is a criminal offence and this is a serious matter. I've put below the advice I normally give to people who request help from the forum in similar circumstances to yours.

You are likely to receive a letter from the train company (or an investigation company acting on their behalf) which will probably take a few weeks to arrive saying that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company would be well within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be a few hundred pounds plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter when it arrives (with personal details removed) and I'm sure members on here will be happy to assist in proof reading your reply.

Thank you so much for this response, this was extremely helpful and I incorporated all of this in my response letter to TIL!
I explained what had happened, apologised, outlined that it was never my intention to pay less (which is hopefully highlighted by the fact that I bought a second ticket after realising my mistake), and stated that I am prepared to pay for whatever fine they think suitable for not covering two stops of my journey.

Unfortunately, I just received a second letter stating that the report of this matter alleges that I failed to pay the correct fare with an intention to of travelling without having previously paid the correct amount and that they see no reason why this investigation should not proceed.

I am a bit scared now that they will actually summon me to court - since they didn't mention any possibility to settle out of court or paying a fine... what would your advice be on how to proceed to achieve an out of court settlement? Shall I contact them again explicitly asking for it or is this the point where it would be wise to involve a lawyer?

You seem to have a lot of experience so I would greatly appreciate any advice that you can give me at this stage.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Mar 2022 ==

Ah - good point. I note the OP has not been back to clarify a bit more info ref their journey so unsure if much more can be offered in the way of advice unless they do so

Apologies for my late response - I waited for TIL to come back to me first.
I'm a bit paranoid with giving out the exact station names publicly (sorry about that, but I read some very scary threads regarding that matter) - as stated above the combined fares of the two tickets did exceed the fare of the whole journey but TIL stated in their letter that "the fare offered by you on arrival at the ticket check was for a shorter journey and the company does consider that an attempt to avoid payment may be alleged" since two stops were not covered by my two tickets.

I don't know if that gives you enough information to advise me on anything but I would greatly appreciate any help/input that I can get!

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you so much for this response, this was extremely helpful and I incorporated all of this in my response letter to TIL!
I explained what had happened, apologised, outlined that it was never my intention to pay less (which is hopefully highlighted by the fact that I bought a second ticket after realising my mistake), and stated that I am prepared to pay for whatever fine they think suitable for not covering two stops of my journey.

Unfortunately, I just received a second letter stating that the report of this matter alleges that I failed to pay the correct fare with an intention to of travelling without having previously paid the correct amount and that they see no reason why this investigation should not proceed.

I am a bit scared now that they will actually summon me to court - since they didn't mention any possibility to settle out of court or paying a fine... what would your advice be on how to proceed to achieve an out of court settlement? Shall I contact them again explicitly asking for it or is this the point where it would be wise to involve a lawyer?

You seem to have a lot of experience so I would greatly appreciate any advice that you can give me at this stage.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Mar 2022 ==



Apologies for my late response - I waited for TIL to come back to me first.
I'm a bit paranoid with giving out the exact station names publicly (sorry about that, but I read some very scary threads regarding that matter) - as stated above the combined fares of the two tickets did exceed the fare of the whole journey but TIL stated in their letter that "the fare offered by you on arrival at the ticket check was for a shorter journey and the company does consider that an attempt to avoid payment may be alleged" since two stops were not covered by my two tickets.

I don't know if that gives you enough information to advise me on anything but I would greatly appreciate any help/input that I can get!

Thanks for update - no need to post stations if you would wish not to do so. Your reply seems like 'std TIL response' at this stage. You will have to try writing again with groveling apology, more remorse and request to settle out of court I think - we have seen lots of examples where this works bit only after 2 or 3 attempts, so I think that should be your next step. I guess do that before having to pay for solicitor fee.

Good luck.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Thanks for update - no need to post stations if you would wish not to do so. Your reply seems like 'std TIL response' at this stage. You will have to try writing again with groveling apology, more remorse and request to settle out of court I think - we have seen lots of examples where this works bit only after 2 or 3 attempts, so I think that should be your next step. I guess do that before having to pay for solicitor fee.

Good luck.

Doesn't the fact that the two partial-journey tickets added up to more than the one correct ticket would have cost make a criminal charge in this case what a court would see as almost an "abuse of process"? Even if technically they were the wrong tickets, they paid for the journey made, so... How can this demonstrate any attempt to avoid payment of "the correct amount", as seems to be the accusation? It's only incorrect to the extent that they paid too much!

 

[gray1404]

This is a typical response by transport investigations limited as they're such an abysmal company. They tend to ignore the first or second letter when somebody asks to settle out of court. So what you have to do is basically right back with pretty much the same letter as before apologising, and sharing it won't happen again and requesting out of court settlement.

 

[AlterEgo]

Without knowing the particulars of the OP’s case it will be difficult to ascertain how reasonable Chiltern are being.

 

[Haywain]

Doesn't the fact that the two partial-journey tickets added up to more than the one correct ticket would have cost make a criminal charge in this case what a court would see as almost an "abuse of process"? Even if technically they were the wrong tickets, they paid for the journey made, so... How can this demonstrate any attempt to avoid payment of "the correct amount", as seems to be the accusation? It's only incorrect to the extent that they paid too much!

It could reasonably be argued that the attempt was clear but failed due to the incompetence of the accused and therefore the offence is complete.

 

[Wethebest838]

Without knowing the particulars of the OP’s case it will be difficult to ascertain how reasonable Chiltern are being.

It’s strange as the one I had with my family member, it was one fare and a previous one back in 2019 and they let it off after one letter? Strange.

 

[island]

Doesn't the fact that the two partial-journey tickets added up to more than the one correct ticket would have cost make a criminal charge in this case what a court would see as almost an "abuse of process"?

In short – no.

You need a ticket or tickets for the actual journey made, not some other journey or collection of journeys.

It’s strange as the one I had with my family member, it was one fare and a previous one back in 2019 and they let it off after one letter? Strange.

Every case stands or falls on its own merits and no two cases are exactly alike.

 

[flagella21]

Thanks for update - no need to post stations if you would wish not to do so. Your reply seems like 'std TIL response' at this stage. You will have to try writing again with groveling apology, more remorse and request to settle out of court I think - we have seen lots of examples where this works bit only after 2 or 3 attempts, so I think that should be your next step. I guess do that before having to pay for solicitor fee.

Good luck.

Okay, that's reassuring thank you!

 

[Wethebest838]

Every case stands or falls on its own merits and no two cases are exactly alike.

Yeah that’s very true. Good point.

 

[flagella21]

This is a typical response by transport investigations limited as they're such an abysmal company. They tend to ignore the first or second letter when somebody asks to settle out of court. So what you have to do is basically right back with pretty much the same letter as before apologising, and sharing it won't happen again and requesting out of court settlement.

okay - thank you!!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Mar 2022 ==

It’s strange as the one I had with my family member, it was one fare and a previous one back in 2019 and they let it off after one letter? Strange.

How similar was the case/accusation?

 

[WesternLancer]

Doesn't the fact that the two partial-journey tickets added up to more than the one correct ticket would have cost make a criminal charge in this case what a court would see as almost an "abuse of process"? Even if technically they were the wrong tickets, they paid for the journey made, so... How can this demonstrate any attempt to avoid payment of "the correct amount", as seems to be the accusation? It's only incorrect to the extent that they paid too much!

Thanks - whilst I also share @island 's point of view - this point could I suppose be made in the OPs reply, but I am unsure if that is worth doing or not. But to get anywhere with it if it got to court would probably require a suitably skilled advocate to make the case, and that is likely to involve solicitors fees etc - which would add to costs of the whole thing - and may in fact not work anyway for reasons island points out.

Better, IMHO to keep apologising to TIL and hope for an agreed settlement to be offered.

 

[Wethebest838]

How similar was the case/accusation?

It was a short fare. Which in my opinion, worse than yours. I guess it’s who deals with the case. I reckon you write back again and they will let you settle