Hulley's of Baslow (Defunct)

[RustySpoons]

According to fbb's blog, service X57 is to be terminated from January 9th 2022.

Public Transport Experience

A collection of posts which expose <b>failings</b> (and, occasionally, <b>successes</b>!) in our public transport system; most of which could be easily solved or improved. There's plenty of nostalgia, too; and a bit of transport history from time to time. <p>Daily blogging is "the norm" and...

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Breaking News : Hulleys are withdrawing their pioneering X57 (Sheffielkd to Manchester) from January 9th. Not really surprising considering poor passenger numbers.

That's both surprising and a shame, I thought it was doing quite well passenger wise!

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's a shame, but I was amazed they thought it would work.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Nov 2021 ==

That's both surprising and a shame, I thought it was doing quite well passenger wise!

I guess because of the rail option they'd need to keep fares low, which wouldn't make it pay very well. Plus they're short staffed so perhaps having trouble maintaining their core service.

Interesting that they've already removed details of it from their website? They aren't trying their luck and pulling it early, are they?

 

[Welshman]

That's a shame, but I was amazed they thought it would work.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Nov 2021 ==



I guess because of the rail option they'd need to keep fares low, which wouldn't make it pay very well. Plus they're short staffed so perhaps having trouble maintaining their core service.

Interesting that they've already removed details of it from their website? They aren't trying their luck and pulling it early, are they?

I suspect that is the main problem as they've already cut the service back to 2 buses per day.
It's still on the website though:-

https://irp.cdn-website.com/8ad37f44/files/uploaded/NEW%20X57.OCT21.pdf

Although it seems to depend upon which website you use!

When I used it a couple of weeks back, there was a home-printed notice in the front nearside window saying [in effect] - Don't complain at lack of drivers but be grateful to those who've turned up!
On that occasion - a Monday lunchtime in October, there was one other person besides myself making the whole journey with another either side of Glossop.

It was a bold attempt though, and although I live in North Wales, I must try to make another journey before 9th January.

 

[richardderby]

hopefully Hulleys can now concentrate on the core network, particularly with the shortage of drivers. It would be good for Bakewell to have some public transport options after 630pm, even if Derbyshire County Council need to chip in. shame about the loss of X57 but Northern rail offer a reasonable service, and fares can usually be found for around £5 in advance. The Northern train service is hourly since a few years now, and usually formed with the new (better) Caf rolling stock.

 

[Goldfish62]

hopefully Hulleys can now concentrate on the core network, particularly with the shortage of drivers. It would be good for Bakewell to have some public transport options after 630pm, even if Derbyshire County Council need to chip in. shame about the loss of X57 but Northern rail offer a reasonable service, and fares can usually be found for around £5 in advance. The Northern train service is hourly since a few years now, and usually formed with the new (better) Caf rolling stock.

Well, you might in luck with Bakewell. Derbyshire's BSIP (Bus Service Bus Improvement Plan) mentions the need for improved services for Bakewell. All depends of course whether the council gets the funding it's asking for from April.

 

[RELL6L]

According to fbb's blog, service X57 is to be terminated from January 9th 2022.

Public Transport Experience

A collection of posts which expose <b>failings</b> (and, occasionally, <b>successes</b>!) in our public transport system; most of which could be easily solved or improved. There's plenty of nostalgia, too; and a bit of transport history from time to time. <p>Daily blogging is "the norm" and...

publictransportexperience.blogspot.com

That's a great shame. I had thought that it was doing OK during the spring and summer although it must be difficult in the colder months. Very sad. I am glad I went on it on my first trip out after the last lockdown, mid April. Sad after the attempts at improvement with this, then the extension to the airport, then the 171 to Leek which never happened then the abortive X1.

Well, you might in luck with Bakewell. Derbyshire's BSIP (Bus Service Bus Improvement Plan) mentions the need for improved services for Bakewell. All depends of course whether the council gets the funding it's asking for from April.

I can't see a great improvement in services around here. I don't think they are that bad, of course there's nothing in the evening but that's not going to happen. Unless Derbyshire goes back to the heady days of the 1980s when they subsidised quite a lot (which it won't) I can't see any noticeable change.

 

[Goldfish62]

I can't see a great improvement in services around here. I don't think they are that bad, of course there's nothing in the evening but that's not going to happen. Unless Derbyshire goes back to the heady days of the 1980s when they subsidised quite a lot (which it won't) I can't see any noticeable change.

A lot depends on whether the council gets the funding it's asked for under its BSIP.

 

[traction22]

According to fbb's blog, service X57 is to be terminated from January 9th 2022.

Public Transport Experience

A collection of posts which expose <b>failings</b> (and, occasionally, <b>successes</b>!) in our public transport system; most of which could be easily solved or improved. There's plenty of nostalgia, too; and a bit of transport history from time to time. <p>Daily blogging is "the norm" and...

publictransportexperience.blogspot.com

It's been mentioned on the Hulleys Enthusiast pages of Facebook too.

 

[Bwsbro]

Have noticed on Flickr anyone else notice that Hulleys have now painted two vehicles in a new Blue Livery

Solo - MX09AOF - Branded 110/111
Enviro - MX11CZM

Does anyone know if this is set to be expanded across the rest of the fleet

 

[cnjb8]

Have noticed on Flickr anyone else notice that Hulleys have now painted two vehicles in a new Blue Livery

Solo - MX09AOF - Branded 110/111
Enviro - MX11CZM

Does anyone know if this is set to be expanded across the rest of the fleet

No, I believe they are one offs to commemorate previous Hulleys liveries or sommat like that

 

[Manclad83]

I can’t help but think a more suitable transpennine route would have been a limited Barnsley-Penistone-Hyde-Manchester service. Albeit outside of Hulleys area. It doesn’t have a direct rail service and are two points relatively close to each other.

 

[traction22]

I can’t help but think a more suitable transpennine route would have been a limited Barnsley-Penistone-Hyde-Manchester service. Albeit outside of Hulleys area. It doesn’t have a direct rail service and are two points relatively close to each other.

I'd love that personally but it would miss the main point of the X57. Most people use the service on the South Yorkshire side or from Glossip to Manchester and not many doing the full route.

 

[James101]

Rode the X57 today as it’ll be Christmas & maybe withdrawn before we know it. 3 passengers making the full journey from Manchester, 2 joining in Glossop, 1 hardy walker from the Pass and 2 local journeys in Sheffield. Not tumbleweed numbers for a midday November trip but certainly not paying the bills. Hopefully it can be maintained as a summer service, perhaps with the first & last journeys to Manchester with shuttles between Glossop & Sheffield in the day.

 

[Simon75]

Another handy cross pennine route (No rail) Hanley (Stoke-on-Trent) to Sheffield, which there was up until some years ago. Currently there is a 16 Hanley to Buxton 4 times a day (D&G) and a 65 Buxton to Sheffield ( Stagecoach Yorkshire) , which doesn't connect but approximately every 2 hours

 

[Welshman]

I can’t help but think a more suitable transpennine route would have been a limited Barnsley-Penistone-Hyde-Manchester service. Albeit outside of Hulleys area. It doesn’t have a direct rail service and are two points relatively close to each other.

I realise this is getting the crayons out, but stay within the Hulleys area and divert permanently via the Woodhead pass, as they did in October when the Snake was closed, and include an additional stop at Penistone.

This will make the journey time longer, but they were never going to compete with 3 TOCs on the Hope Valley line. But they would then be offering a fast bus between Sheffield and Penistone as opposed to the rail service via Barnsley, and restoring the link between Penistone and Manchester, lost many years ago when the Woodhead line was closed. Some journeys could still divert via Glossop if it was felt that town should continue to be served and the others could continue directly to Manchester.

The problem is that having burnt their fingers with this venture they may not be up to trying a different route, especially in these times of driver shortages.

 

[markymark2000]

I realise this is getting the crayons out, but stay within the Hulleys area and divert permanently via the Woodhead pass, as they did in October when the Snake was closed, and include an additional stop at Penistone.

This will make the journey time longer, but they were never going to compete with 3 TOCs on the Hope Valley line. But they would then be offering a fast bus between Sheffield and Penistone as opposed to the rail service via Barnsley, and restoring the link between Penistone and Manchester, lost many years ago when the Woodhead line was closed. Some journeys could still divert via Glossop if it was felt that town should continue to be served and the others could continue directly to Manchester.

The problem is that having burnt their fingers with this venture they may not be up to trying a different route, especially in these times of driver shortages.

I think Hulleys could have done some better promotion as things went on and not done 3000 changes to the timetable. Poor passengers wouldn't have known whether they were coming or going. The route still has potential I think but Hulleys faffed with it that much and kept putting unsuitable buses on it like the Dart. People aren't going to use a service like that. Then add in they aren't serving one of the key areas which could generate significant usage, the Trafford Centre, instead favouring the airport at a time when air travel is still down 70%. Not serving Hyde earlier to take advantage of the many, many Stagecoach passengers who are making journeys into Manchester city.

Then add in their driver shortage which won't be helping things.



I think the route could still work if they stuck at it and sorted it out properly with less changes. Depends how the route is affecting the driver shortage though as it seems to be a last in, first out thing they are doing with routes.

 

[daodao]

My posts from 12/9/20 regarding service X57:

I am astounded by the launch of this service and consider it inauspicious for it to be introduced at the start of winter. The eastern section as far as Ladybower is already served, but increasing the frequency to hourly may encourage use. Passing Sheffield University and the Royal Hallamshire Hospital may pick up some custom. It may be used by tourists/hikers on summer weekends - at one time Derbyshire CC used to fund such services across the Snake Pass. However, overall, I would seriously question its long-term viability.

Launching this service just before winter may not be the best time to introduce it, given the propensity for the Snake Pass to be blocked by snow and ice. However, it may be particularly useful for passengers travelling to Sheffield University, the Royal Hallamshire Hospital and Sheffield Children's Hospital, which are sited on or close to Glossop Road.

The former NWRCC (North West Road Car Company) used to operate this route together with Sheffield JOC (Joint Omnibus Committee) many years ago. There were 4 journeys per day, summer only, taking 150 minutes, but without the benefit of the M67 to bypass Hyde.

Sheffield JOC also used to operate a joint service between Sheffield and Manchester via Woodhead. There were up to 5 journeys per day, some all year, taking 135 minutes, but again without the benefit of the M67 to bypass Hyde; the service ran via Ashton-under-Lyne. The last vestiges of this other service were operated by National Express until earlier this year, latterly just 2 journeys per day.

Frankly, the only service that it is worth offering on this route would be from Sheffield to Glossop via Fairholmes on summer Sundays and Bank Holidays (during BST), with 3 journeys per day timed to reach/leave Glossop railway station at about 1040/1340/1640 to connect with the hourly electric train service to/from Manchester. A single bus would be required, but even this limited service might not be viable. On Mondays-Saturdays, the A57 east of the Ladybower Inn will continue to be served by the approximately 2 hourly service 257 from Sheffield.

The alternative route from Sheffield to Manchester via Woodhead was withdrawn permanently in early 2020 by National Express, presumably as it was no longer viable.

Currently there is a 16 Hanley to Buxton 4 times a day (D&G).

The Saturday service on route 16 is about to be withdrawn and the weekday service from Hanley to Buxton reduced from 4 to 3 journeys per day (from 22/11/21). The D&G website states that:

From 22nd November some journeys will run at slightly different times to improve reliability. Some journeys between Leek and Buxton, including all Saturday journeys, are withdrawn.

https://www.dgbus.co.uk/assets/16_2021-11-22.pdf

 

[markymark2000]

The alternative route from Sheffield to Manchester via Woodhead was withdrawn permanently in early 2020 by National Express, presumably as it was no longer viable.

It came back in with the covid uplift but got withdrawn as it didn't get passengers as quickly as NatEx wanted (like a number of routes which got put in and then taken back out)

 

[Manclad83]

I'd love that personally but it would miss the main point of the X57. Most people use the service on the South Yorkshire side or from Glossip to Manchester and not many doing the full route.
I'd love that personally but it would miss the main point of the X57. Most people use the service on the South Yorkshire side or from Glossip to Manchester and not many doing the full route.

Then divert it into Glossop via the Devils Elbow before then continuing to Hyde and Manchester. That said, not that many seem to use it Glossop to Manchester given the pretty decent rail service. The 341 Glossop-Hyde is convoluted mind and it would offer a quicker service plus maintaining a connection between Hollingworth and Hyde, Hollingworth being a suburb of Hyde without a buconnection there.

But I’d envisage a 4 times a day service Barnsley-Dodworth-Silkstone-Hoylandswaine-Penistone-Millhouse-Woodhead-(maybe Glossop) Hollingworth-Hyde-Manchester.

An extension to the Trafford Centre may indeed make the service more attractive from all points.

 

[RELL6L]

Is it too much to hope that, having established there is some market, Derbyshire funds a handful of journeys during the summer months, perhaps just between Sheffield and Glossop, connecting with trains at Glossop? Maybe round trips leaving Sheffield around 9.15, 11.15, 13.15 and 16.00, thus leaving resources available for school runs.

On the D&G 16 the revised timetable posted is weird in that there is a journey from Buxton at 09.45 but no corresponding journey into Buxton. Currently one arrives at 9.09 and departs at 9.15. Is there one missing?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is it too much to hope that, having established there is some market, Derbyshire funds a handful of journeys during the summer months, perhaps just between Sheffield and Glossop, connecting with trains at Glossop? Maybe round trips leaving Sheffield around 9.15, 11.15, 13.15 and 16.00, thus leaving resources available for school runs.

On the D&G 16 the revised timetable posted is weird in that there is a journey from Buxton at 09.45 but no corresponding journey into Buxton. Currently one arrives at 9.09 and departs at 9.15. Is there one missing?

Is there some market, though? The Snake is pretty barren. Sure, some walkers might be interested, but you can go walking in the Peak from the Hope Valley stations, and there'll be a pub at the end then, too. (The Snake Pass Inn closed a few years back and is now housing of some sort).

 

[chessie]

I have used the X57 albeit only a couple of times midweek but far more frequently at weekends, being a non car owner I have really enjoyed the new walking opportunities this year thanks to this service and I haven't been alone! Based on my experience, the weekend service could totally work in some form as its been near to full in good weather even with up to half loadings when its not so clement on the services I have used, however I suppose in hindsight I can see why it doesn't work as per previously mentioned comments in this thread

For purely selfish reasons I hope it will come back as a seasonal service at least, it currently links brilliantly into the 257 at Ladybower which by fluke or design then links me to the 170 with ease and cheaply to get me back home

I cant really comment on end to end journeys though as I only did that once for the novelty

 

[ALEMASTER]

It is disappointing to hear the X57 is to be withdrawn.

The X57 does have potential to grow a lot of the intermediate markets though, for example it is a very useful direct link between Sheffield and Glossop which to do by train you have to go all the way to Manchester first then double back.

I think it was always going to struggle to get good numbers for the end to end Sheffield-Manchester journey given the train is faster, more frequent and has some cheap deals if you book in advance plus it has road competition from National Express offering a more comfortable experience. Covid is probably still suppressing leisure travel by bus to some extent too.

However, an issue apart from the patronage levels is that both Manchester and Sheffield are introducing clean air zones where any buses that aren't Euro6 diesel or better will be charged to enter the City Centres and I guess a firm like Hulleys doesn't really have the budget to be buying a whole fleet of new low emission buses. There was also a mention of TfGM failing to cough up reimbursements for concessionary pass use too.

 

[markymark2000]

It's a very strange one as someone who works at Hulleys is claiming the route isn't being withdrawn due to passenger numbers nor driver shortage but won't say the actual reasons why it is going 'loads of reasons', well if the company was as professional as it tried to make out, such reasons should be given but oh well. Bullets went from being hero to Zero just over September. I'd be interested to know what happened in late August/Early September for them to become so poor with regards to keeping customers informed.

https://twitter.com/MattOfHulleys/status/1459149145743278083?t=UX3s96MYhkfJmBhYbca9og&s=19

 

[Killingworth]

It's a very strange one as someone who works at Hulleys is claiming the route isn't being withdrawn due to passenger numbers nor driver shortage but won't say the actual reasons why it is going 'loads of reasons', well if the company was as professional as it tried to make out, such reasons should be given but oh well. Bullets went from being hero to Zero just over September. I'd be interested to know what happened in late August/Early September for them to become so poor with regards to keeping customers informed.

https://twitter.com/MattOfHulleys/status/1459149145743278083?t=UX3s96MYhkfJmBhYbca9og&s=19

Some well used buses, other all but empty, but nobody can report that if they're not on them. Difficult/impossible route over Snake in bad weather. Driver shortages. City centre charging to use older buses. Traffic congestion. Route training and knowledge. Picking up and dropping off points. Too much managerial time. Just off the top of my head and there are probably more. (I live in Sheffield but it would take me 40 minutes by bus to pick up one of theirs in the centre. Train is 12 minutes walk away.)

 

[derbybusdepot]

Some well used buses, other all but empty, but nobody can report that if they're not on them. Difficult/impossible route over Snake in bad weather. Driver shortages. City centre charging to use older buses. Traffic congestion. Route training and knowledge. Picking up and dropping off points. Too much managerial time. Just off the top of my head and there are probably more. (I live in Sheffield but it would take me 40 minutes by bus to pick up one of theirs in the centre. Train is 12 minutes walk away.)

Also with the route starting during covid, would the service be excess millage not covered by the bus recovery grant.

Concessionary passes are still paid at pre COVID levels to, not on the number used at present. There will likely be more cuts from April by many operators big and small unless something changes.

 

[Goldfish62]

Also with the route starting during covid, would the service be excess millage not covered by the bus recovery grant.

Concessionary passes are still paid at pre COVID levels to, not on the number used at present. There will likely be more cuts from April by many operators big and small unless something changes.

Agreed on both points.

I don't think a lot of people realise how bad things are going to get once BRG (Bus Recovery Grant) expires.

 

[Contains Nuts]

Agreed on both points.

I don't think a lot of people realise how bad things are going to get once BRG (Bus Recovery Grant) expires.

I’m not sure many people realise quite how low BRG is either compared to the previous funding scheme. I imagine quite a few operators will struggle over the coming months.

 

[markymark2000]

I’m not sure many people realise quite how low BRG is either compared to the previous funding scheme. I imagine quite a few operators will struggle over the coming months.

They should not be entitled to the funding in my opinion. It's a new route. The funding was in place to keep existing routes in operation so that key workers could get to work, not to kick start new ventures.

 

[Goldfish62]

They should not be entitled to the funding in my opinion. It's a new route. The funding was in place to keep existing routes in operation so that key workers could get to work, not to kick start new ventures.

The funding wasn't route-specific. It was based on total scheduled mileage. Hulley's wouldn't be the only operator by a long way to take advantage of that.

The funding has been to keep bus services going and stop operators going out of business. Nothing to do with "key workers".