Late train made me miss bus to hotel

[nanstallon]

My train was 3 hours late and by the time my train arrived, I'd missed a bus, the next one being about three hours later and late at night. I took a taxi for the 5 mile run. My delay-repay claim has been accepted for a full refund of the train fare, but they are refusing to refund the taxi fare (£13). They say I could have used public transport, but it is hardly reasonable to expect me to wait for three hours at night - is it?

 

[AlterEgo]

My train was 3 hours late and by the time my train arrived, I'd missed a bus, the next one being about three hours later and late at night. I took a taxi for the 5 mile run. My delay-repay claim has been accepted for a full refund of the train fare, but they are refusing to refund the taxi fare (£13). They say I could have used public transport, but it is hardly reasonable to expect me to wait for three hours at night - is it?

Was the bus part of a rail-inclusive ticket? If not, you have no direct recourse under Delay Repay or the NRCoT to the additional cost. Others will be able to advise if any other legislation may apply.

 

[WesternLancer]

My train was 3 hours late and by the time my train arrived, I'd missed a bus, the next one being about three hours later and late at night. I took a taxi for the 5 mile run. My delay-repay claim has been accepted for a full refund of the train fare, but they are refusing to refund the taxi fare (£13). They say I could have used public transport, but it is hardly reasonable to expect me to wait for three hours at night - is it?

You probably need to argue the point about the taxi fare with customer services. Did you ask any rail staff for advice on what to do (at the station or via a phone number) before getting in the taxi by any chance? Given you suffered a three hour delay you might have done this?

Which rail company was it, what was the journey to and from, which train was delayed by 3 hours?

 

[nanstallon]

1. Not a rail/bus inclusive ticket.
2. I didn't ask rail staff for advice.
3. I prefer not to say which rail company, etc. Just wondering about the general principle.

It may be just one of those things, can't win them all!

 

[WesternLancer]

1. Not a rail/bus inclusive ticket.
2. I didn't ask rail staff for advice.
3. I prefer not to say which rail company, etc. Just wondering about the general principle.

It may be just one of those things, can't win them all!

I tink if you did not ask the railway for any assistance when faced with a 3 hour train delay for onward travel you are on sticky wicket in terms of principle - but I thus think you should write to Customer services with a polite request that under the circs they pay your taxi fare as a good will gesture. Hopefully you have a receipt of payment that shows time and origin from the station on the date that matches your delay claim.

The general principle as it were (as set out n the conditions of travel) is that the railway gets you to your destination (ie the station, not the final leg home as it were) on or before the last train of the day and if the last train is not an option they arrange travel to that final station. For example I was on a rail replacement bus from the last train of the night - the bus went past my street and I asked the bus driver if he could stop and put me off - but he was insistent he was not letting anyone off until he got to the station int he town - even tho this was circa 1am

But you may as well write to them and ask. Do this outside of and not part of the Delay Repay process.

Would be helpful if you can let us know how you get on (tho more helpful to others in future if you were prepared to say what train company - but feel free to save that until the matter is dealt with - either in your favour or not.

Good luck.

 

[robbeech]

officially the railway has no real responsibility to get you beyond the destination station (or suitable station / suitable alternative en route). There are a few exceptions relating to their duty of care but none of this will ever get off the ground if you don’t ask staff at the time.

They could justifiably argue that as they had conveyed you to the contracted destination and you were able to transport yourself to your overall journey destination then this would not apply. They’ve paid out what you are eligible for in compensation.

Of course, you would be welcome to contact them and see if they’ll offer you the taxi fare as a gesture of goodwill due to the extensive delay but they are under no obligation to do so.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

It may be just one of those things, can't win them all!

This.

The railway doesn't promise to get you from your home to your final destination: it promises to get you from your starting station to your end station. By the sound of things they have done this with a three-hour delay and compensated you for that delay in line with their Delay Repay ( or similar) scheme. You have no right to anything more. Of course, the railway might choose as a matter of customer service to pay something more, but that's their choice and not their duty.

 

[nanstallon]

I've done that; politely because there is no point in ranting even if you are on a definite winner, which I am not. I'll let you know the outcome.

 

[WesternLancer]

I've done that; politely because there is no point in ranting even if you are on a definite winner, which I am not. I'll let you know the outcome.

Did you do that via Customer Services or via a Delay Repay Appeal process? If the latter I would expect it to fail.If the former you might have a better chance, tho probably a slim one.

 

[nanstallon]

I wrote to Customer Support.

 

[WesternLancer]

I wrote to Customer Support.

Thanks for clarifying. Good luck and will be interesting to hear the outcome.

 

[Starmill]

I think that three hours is such a long delay that you should be entitled to make a claim for some consequential losses. Unfortunately it's unclear if you can claim both a sum for consequential losses and under 'Delay Repay'. You could however have claimed once, for a consequential loss of the taxi fare plus a reasonable portion of your ticket price for the significant inconvenience.

Actually getting a train company to accept a consequential losses claim is very tricky. However in the case of three hours of delay it's really clear to me that they should be paying some compensation.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Nov 2021 ==

The railway doesn't promise to get you from your home to your final destination: it promises to get you from your starting station to your end station. By the sound of things they have done this with a three-hour delay and compensated you for that delay in line with their Delay Repay ( or similar) scheme. You have no right to anything more.

This is of course false. If someone were injured onboard the train as a result of the actions of the company, they could claim proportionate compensation. Same goes for a consequential loss as a result of very lengthy delays. This wouldn't be based on the ticket price, it would be based on the estimated value of the losses.

The trouble is if you choose to go down the Delay Repay route for speed and convenience, this is base on the ticket price.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

This.

The railway doesn't promise to get you from your home to your final destination: it promises to get you from your starting station to your end station. By the sound of things they have done this with a three-hour delay and compensated you for that delay in line with their Delay Repay ( or similar) scheme. You have no right to anything more. Of course, the railway might choose as a matter of customer service to pay something more, but that's their choice and not their duty.

This is of course false. If someone were injured onboard the train as a result of the actions of the company, they could claim proportionate compensation. Same goes for a consequential loss as a result of very lengthy delays. This wouldn't be based on the ticket price, it would be based on the estimated value of the losses.

I foresee severe resistance from the railway to this line of argument. If Nanstallon can reclaim their taxi fare for their onward journey because of the railway’s failure to get them to their railway destination, then what about my airfare to Australia because the train didn’t get me to the airport on time? What about the multi-million contract that I was going to sign in Australia but couldn’t because I missed my plane?

A cursory flick around the internet reminds me that NRCoT doesn’t have the same restrictions on claiming consequential loads as the old NRCoC did - but even when Which? tested this they seem to have limited the question to getting a taxi instead of a train rather than a taxi after the train.

 

[WesternLancer]

I think that three hours is such a long delay that you should be entitled to make a claim for some consequential losses. Unfortunately it's unclear if you can claim both a sum for consequential losses and under 'Delay Repay'. You could however have claimed once, for a consequential loss of the taxi fare plus a reasonable portion of your ticket price for the significant inconvenience.

Actually getting a train company to accept a consequential losses claim is very tricky. However in the case of three hours of delay it's really clear to me that they should be paying some compensation.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Nov 2021 ==


This is of course false. If someone were injured onboard the train as a result of the actions of the company, they could claim proportionate compensation. Same goes for a consequential loss as a result of very lengthy delays. This wouldn't be based on the ticket price, it would be based on the estimated value of the losses.

The trouble is if you choose to go down the Delay Repay route for speed and convenience, this is base on the ticket price.

I also think the issue is that the OP has not told us the journey. I'd like to kon if it was one train that was 3 hours late or if in reality it is a missed connection due to eg 45 or 80 mins late etc that then resulted in final arrival 3 hours late. If one train was 3 hours late and rail staff on board or at arrival were not proactively helping people with onward travel i think that is v poor.

But OP was reluctant to name train company or trains taken date etc (not really sure why since had they done that we could have checked on systems databases for the background to the scenario).

 

[yorkie]

Without knowing more information it is difficult to comment.

How much was the Delay Repay amount?

I am aware of a customer who was delayed a similar duration and was given a scratch card for complimentary 1st class travel on the TOC concerned (LNER in that case).

 

[robbeech]

If one train was 3 hours late and rail staff on board or at arrival were not proactively helping people with onward travel i think that is v poor.

Indeed but ‘v poor’ in terms of customer service is something the railway is good at so I don’t think we should be too surprised if that were the case.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My train was 3 hours late and by the time my train arrived, I'd missed a bus, the next one being about three hours later and late at night. I took a taxi for the 5 mile run. My delay-repay claim has been accepted for a full refund of the train fare, but they are refusing to refund the taxi fare (£13). They say I could have used public transport, but it is hardly reasonable to expect me to wait for three hours at night - is it?

Regardless of whether it should be, the railway is not responsible for connections onto other modes of transport. Therefore this is I'm afraid on you. You could look to get insurance to cover such risks, or as most people do just take the risk yourself.

 

[WesternLancer]

Indeed but ‘v poor’ in terms of customer service is something the railway is good at so I don’t think we should be too surprised if that were the case.

Indeed - just a shame the Op not keen on listing full details, but that's up to them of course.

 

[221129]

A claim under the Consumer Rights Act could focus the minds of the TOC. Although this would depend on the cause of the delay.

Quote from Which?

Under the Consumer Rights Act you can claim for consequential losses. This means you can claim for financial losses you have suffered as a result of the failure by the transport service.

To make a successful claim you’ll need to demonstrate how your losses are linked to a breach of contract by the service provider.

Your first port of call should be to write to the company asking for compensation. You should explain how their service was in breach of their contract with you and how that breach resulted in further losses to you.

For example, due to a delay or cancellation you may have missed a connecting journey and had to pay for an alternative service.

 

[Titfield]

A claim under the Consumer Rights Act could focus the minds of the TOC. Although this would depend on the cause of the delay.

Quote from Which?

Under the Consumer Rights Act you can claim for consequential losses. This means you can claim for financial losses you have suffered as a result of the failure by the transport service.

To make a successful claim you’ll need to demonstrate how your losses are linked to a breach of contract by the service provider.

Your first port of call should be to write to the company asking for compensation. You should explain how their service was in breach of their contract with you and how that breach resulted in further losses to you.

For example, due to a delay or cancellation you may have missed a connecting journey and had to pay for an alternative service.

Well yes but if the TOC has refunded you cost of the original rail ticket then it could be argued that the passenger may be better off for example travellers original plans Train Ticket £50 Local Bus £5 Total £55, Actual Travel Train Ticket £50 but refunded Taxi £13 Total (after refund) £13.

 

[Starmill]

Regardless of whether it should be, the railway is not responsible for connections onto other modes of transport. Therefore this is I'm afraid on you. You could look to get insurance to cover such risks, or as most people do just take the risk yourself.

But of course it could still be the responsibility of the train company. It depends on how long the connection was, how long the delay was and why the train was delayed, how much it cost to use alternative transport (such as a taxi) and if there were alternatives available, including those provided by the company directly.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But of course it could still be the responsibility of the train company. It depends on how long the connection was, how long the delay was and why the train was delayed, how much it cost to use alternative transport (such as a taxi) and if there were alternatives available, including those provided by the company directly.

In no case is a connection to a separate local bus service in any way the railway's responsibility. You could argue it should be, but it isn't.

 

[221129]

In no case is a connection to a local bus service in any way the railway's responsibility.

I'm not so sure it is as straight forward as that.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

In no case is a connection to a separate local bus service in any way the railway's responsibility.

Not even on a 'PlusBus' type ticket?

 

[Starmill]

In no case is a connection to a separate local bus service in any way the railway's responsibility. You could argue it should be, but it isn't.

They're responsible for it in the same way that they might be responsible for your missing a day of work as a result of an uncommonly long delay, or missing a lift home by way of the hour becoming unreasonably late. Or they might be responsible if you injure yourself on their station, even if they haven't actually injured you themselves. Or a whole host of other similar things.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not so sure it is as straight forward as that.

The railway has never covered the cost of any kind of consequential loss. That is what insurance is for.

Not even on a 'PlusBus' type ticket?

No, other than that if it could not be used due to the railway's doing a refund should arguably be given.

 

[Starmill]

The railway has never covered the cost of any kind of consequential loss. That is what insurance is for.

I'm afraid this is incorrect. That may well be what they want the case to be but it doesn't mean that it is.

 

[221129]

The railway has never covered the cost of any kind of consequential loss. That is what insurance is for.

That's not even close to being true.

 

[AlterEgo]

CrossCountry used to cover passengers’ missed flights at Stansted if there was a very severe delay. It’s not entirely a clear cut issue.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's not even close to being true.

In any practical sense it is, unless you are one of those people willing to pursue quite small sums through the Courts at potentially high cost.

The railway is responsible for getting you to the place on your ticket (or set of contiguous split tickets with proper connection times allowed). You are going to have to prove negligence in Court to get any more.