Maximum age of train drivers?

[Need2]

If you were born before 5th April 1970 it's 65. 6th April until 5th April 1978 it's 67 . After that it's 68. I wasn't happy when it changed . If I was two weeks older , it would be 65 for me.

That is not correct.
I was born in 67 and my state pension age is 67

 

[John R]

It's completely wrong. Someone who reaches 66 today has reached their state pension age. For those born in 1961 or later it quickly transitions to 67, although it never moves with an abrupt cut off which if you miss by a day means you have to wait a further year.

 

[baz962]

Yea my bad . It's 66 or 67. What I quoted are the new proposals. Apologies.

 

[DorkingMain]

I'd trust a 75 year old driver over a 21 year old....

When I was a guard in my 20s people would wrongly assume that older colleagues were more experienced, simply because they were older, when actually I had trained before many of them

If you're good at your job age is just a number. Young or old.

Exactly this. More experience means more time for bad habits to develop too - it cuts both ways.

 

[Wolfie]

I'd trust a 75 year old driver over a 21 year old....

The BBC report that the SWR driver, who is sadly reported as having suffered life changing injuries, was 74. If he was fit and healthy then why shouldn't he work on if he wished to.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Nov 2021 ==

If you were born before 5th April 1970 it's 65. 6th April until 5th April 1978 it's 67 . After that it's 68. I wasn't happy when it changed . If I was two weeks older , it would be 65 for me.

Not true. I was born in late 1963 and my state pension age is 67.

 

[baz962]

The BBC report that the SWR driver, who is sadly reported as having suffered life changing injuries, was 74. If he was fit and healthy then why shouldn't he work on if he wished to.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Nov 2021 ==


Not true. I was born in late 1963 and my state pension age is 67.

You might want to read up a bit. Someone already told me and I apologised . Bit slow buddy. Must be your age

 

[Horizon22]

Okay the pension age discussion has been had now, I ask that people kindly go back to the original topic.

 

[Wolfie]

You might want to read up a bit. Someone already told me and I apologised . Bit slow buddy. Must be your age

Sorry, posted before l got to the end of the thread.

 

[S-Car-Go]

Was thinking that if there are drivers in their 70s, they're likely to be in the top link of their respective depot. And that usually comes with the perk of not too extreme shift times. No early starts, nor late finishes, nor nights.

 

[Tyrion]

Was thinking that if there are drivers in their 70s, they're likely to be in the top link of their respective depot. And that usually comes with the perk of not too extreme shift times. No early starts, nor late finishes, nor nights.

Not at our depot they are all in the same link.
What is becoming more common now is Part Time and Job Share arrangements which is something I would like to do in the future health permitting.
I am of the opinion going from an extreme shift pattern to nowt is a big shock to system and you do hear of people passing (I realise it is probably not linked) quite quickly after retiring.
I aim to be mortgage free 5 years before railway pension and that's when I would consider p/t then sail off when pension kicks in

 

[MostlyHarmless]

You can't actually be forced to retire at the state pension age except for medical reasons or because of another law that requires it - and train drivers aren't subject to any such law as far as I'm aware

Working after State Pension age

Working while taking your pension, State Pension age, retirement age, how long you can work, tax and national insurance, flexible working, discrimination

www.gov.uk

 

[ComUtoR]

Employers Justified Retirement Age (EJRA) is slowly being introduced into the Driving Grade

 

[MostlyHarmless]

Employers Justified Retirement Age (EJRA) is slowly being introduced into the Driving Grade

I'm surprised by this as it has been challenged on a couple of occasions although the outcomes were different in each. Basically the company have to prove that the justification for doing it outweighs the fact that it is discriminatory (in terms of the protected characteristic of age). Have the Unions has anything to say about it?

 

[ComUtoR]

Have the Unions has anything to say about it?

Last I checked they were in support of it.

 

[Tyrion]

Aslef are in support of it, you have drivers who take their pension and continue (which is their right to btw) Well into late 60s and do not contribute back to the pension scheme for those years and I think that's what Aslef's view is.

 

[43066]

When I was a guard in my 20s people would wrongly assume that older colleagues were more experienced, simply because they were older, when actually I had trained before many of them

Exactly this. More experience means more time for bad habits to develop too - it cuts both ways.

I guess the point really is that surely we should be moving away from making judgments about people based on characteristics which they can’t help and are irrelevant to their ability to do the job. A newspaper focussing on a driver’s age is, I would suggest, no more appropriate than pointing out their race or their sexual orientation.

The idea that someone of this age must be past it is based on a lazy stereotype: One particular driver I knew still working in his seventies was a hell of a more sprightly than many a driver I’ve seen in their fifties, I’m sorry to say!

I'm surprised by this as it has been challenged on a couple of occasions although the outcomes were different in each. Basically the company have to prove that the justification for doing it outweighs the fact that it is discriminatory (in terms of the protected characteristic of age). Have the Unions has anything to say about it?

It’s in place at Cross Country according to some previous postings on here.

Last I checked they were in support of it.

It’s in the ASLEF freight charter, but I can’t see it in the main charter on the website. Not sure it’s right to say it’s slowly being introduced, I’ve not been aware of any motion to bring it in st either my last or present TOCs.

Personally I think it’s absolutely disgraceful in 2021 that a TU not only supports but actively advocates for direct discrimination of a type which has been outlawed for the vast majority of workers workers.

 

[ComUtoR]

It’s in the ASLEF freight charter, but I can’t see it in the main charter on the website. Not sure it’s right to say it’s slowly being introduced, I’ve not been aware of any motion to bring it in st either my last or present TOCs.

Personally I think it’s absolutely disgraceful in 2021 that a TU not only supports but actively advocates for direct discrimination of a type which has been outlawed for the vast majority of workers workers.

Whatever we do, we shall do it together in unity | ASLEF

We have, since March last year, faced unprecedented times and shown our duty, as key workers, to our communities and nation, and kept the country running, along with many others, for a greater good.

aslef.org.uk

We have aspirations on reducing the driver's age, staff travel, protecting pensions, EJRA, and other issues we would hope to achieve.

ASLEF Charter | ASLEF

The ASLEF Charter underpins the union's industrial strategy and serves as the symbol that drives ASLEF towards establishing conditions of employment that provide the benchmark for best practice within the railway industry.

aslef.org.uk

ASLEF recognises the importance of providing alternative work life balance opportunities and encourages the implementation of 'Job Share' agreements being made available through collective means for our members, however these arrangements should not be used to facilitate or encourage working beyond state pension age.

Cognitive abilities and job performance at older ages (S333)

Understanding the implications of the continued employment of older drivers, in the context of the abolition of the statutory retirement age in 2011.

www.rssb.co.uk

In short, there does not appear to be any clear justification for a specific age limitation that should apply to train drivers. However, train drivers are currently required to undergo annual medical checks once they reach age 55. It may be that periodic refresher training/assessment could be considered for older drivers.

It's certainly fair to say that ASLEF are in support of the EJRA. Why ? I have no idea and I agree that its disgraceful that they have even considered it; especially considering that quote from the RSSB !!

 

[Horizon22]

I guess the point really is that surely we should be moving away from making judgments about people based on characteristics which they can’t help and are irrelevant to their ability to do the job. A newspaper focussing on a driver’s age is, I would suggest, no more appropriate than pointing out their race or their sexual orientation.

The idea that someone of this age must be past it is based on a lazy stereotype: One particular driver I knew still working in his seventies was a hell of a more sprightly than many a driver I’ve seen in their fifties, I’m sorry to say!

This is I suppose the point. I'm younger than many of my colleagues and have more skills and experiences than some and have a different work ethic to some... I've also managed people much younger than me. There's also some I'd say with more experience who really apply that usefully. In some roles past experience is actually a negative in the railway - you look back to processes or standards that are no longer in practice and therefore irrelevant and someone new will have only the relevant information at their disposal. For me, it's all about how you apply yourself in the role and your ability to do the job (which can encompass experience) more than any other characteristic as you say.

As for the newspaper point out the driver's age, I'd actually say that was fairly standard - since they have now named the driver, they tend to say "Joe Bloggs, age XX suffered 'life-changing injuries'". If the driver was 25, they'd probably have mentioned it too.

 

[43066]

I'm not sure it's ideal for people to be doing railway roles into their 70s, simply because of the negative effects of shiftwork.

However, it's the individual's free choice and I wouldn't want to take that away from them. Likewise it's possible for people to find sweeter spots - job shares, part-time working, or even simply have a regular changeover which gives them a more routine shift pattern.

I've always said I won't be working full-time past 50, but equally I wouldn't want to pack things in completely.

I do agree with this to be fair. I wouldn’t want to still be doing shifts in my 70s. To be fair I can’t imagine there are that many who fully do it through choice.

Retiring at 50 is a great ambition but the financial freedom to do that, when many of us now have a reasonable likelihood of living to 90+, is going to be well beyond the vast majority of people absent a large inheritance/lottery win etc.

Whatever we do, we shall do it together in unity | ASLEF

We have, since March last year, faced unprecedented times and shown our duty, as key workers, to our communities and nation, and kept the country running, along with many others, for a greater good.

aslef.org.uk

ASLEF Charter | ASLEF

The ASLEF Charter underpins the union's industrial strategy and serves as the symbol that drives ASLEF towards establishing conditions of employment that provide the benchmark for best practice within the railway industry.

aslef.org.uk

Cognitive abilities and job performance at older ages (S333)

Understanding the implications of the continued employment of older drivers, in the context of the abolition of the statutory retirement age in 2011.

www.rssb.co.uk

It's certainly fair to say that ASLEF are in support of the EJRA. Why ? I have no idea and I agree that its disgraceful that they have even considered it; especially considering that quote from the RSSB !!

Thanks - great background info. I would hope it’s something they step away from in the future. Sadly it’s yet another viewpoint of the union that I find myself in complete disagreement with.

I'd say with more experience who really apply that usefully. In some roles past experience is actually a negative in the railway - you look back to processes or standards that are no longer in practice and therefore irrelevant and someone new will have only the relevant information at their disposal.

Very true. I’ve managed people in a former life, in a very different industry, and found that plenty difficult enough. I can’t begin to imagine what it must be like to manage operational rail staff .