Can fireworks cause poor railhead conditions?

[HarlowMan19]

Has anyone made the connection between the date of the crash - 31st October (Halloween) and a lot of firework possibly in the area.

I was always told be careful on firework nights as they can cause low adhesion.

 

[mmh]

Has anyone made the connection between the date of the crash - 31st October (Halloween) and a lot of firework possibly in the area.

I was always told be careful on firework nights as they can cause low adhesion.

How many fireworks would there need to be before residue on something as small as a rail was a problem?

I think the driver would have breathing problems before this realistically happened!

 

[HarlowMan19]

How many fireworks would there need to be before residue on something as small as a rail was a problem?

I think the driver would have breathing problems before this realistically happened!

you’d be surprised by what can cause low rail adhesion.

One example on a route I drive is a flour mill on approach to a station.

I’ve never experienced it but enough drivers told me about it that I always bear it in mind.

 

[thenorthern]

It's highly unlikely as Firework debris are essentially just paper and wood. There is often a lot of much worse trash on the tracks.

 

[jamesst]

you’d be surprised by what can cause low rail adhesion.

One example on a route I drive is a flour mill on approach to a station.

I’ve never experienced it but enough drivers told me about it that I always bear it in mind.

Unilever in Port sunlight has had a similar effect with soap residue. It's even been said the Hunts Cross line was sometimes said to suffer due to the wind blowing contamination across the Mersey.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Unilever in Port sunlight has had a similar effect with soap residue. It's even been said the Hunts Cross line was sometimes said to suffer due to the wind blowing contamination across the Mersey.

The contamination wasn't soap though!

 

[RPM]

This isn't a hypothesis I've ever previously heard, but the wider causes of low adhesion remain somewhat nebulous. It doesn't strike me as massively likely to be true though.

 

[sw1ller]

There are so many variables to low adhesion that it’s very difficult to speculate what the cause was without testing the railhead on the night. Even then, if it was anything like my neck of the woods that day, the torrential rain could have washed off or diluted any evidence of low adhesion.
Is it possible? I’d say yes, I don’t know the chemical makeup of fireworks but any small debris can make the railhead slippery. We have a wood factory near Chirk that can cause issues apparently (like the flour mill example above, I’ve never encountered issues). But I’ve had some scary moments where a level crossing is at a station and the wheels pick up because of the fumes from the exhaust, that’s in good weather too. Low adhesion can come out of nowhere and will catch out even the most experienced of us.

It CAN be worse than some people imagine too. Last year, I travelled nearly a full signal section in emergency and only went from 35mph down to 30mph. Luckily a tunnel came to my aid and I got some grip back on the approach to the red. This was in a 75mph—>50mph section too so the signals weren’t close.

 

[rd749249]

Years ago, my driver manager explained that his only incident was a SPAD due to the fireworks display that had gone off the previous evening, very close to the lineside. So I would say that from his experience, they are most definitely a factor.

 

[Tomnick]

The worst consistently thick fog that I think I've ever driven in was later in the evening on Bonfire Night - mile after mile of virtually zero visibility. I understand that the particles in the smoky mist that's left over after a fireworks display, probably combined with the smoke from the bonfire itself, can promote the formation of a much thicker fog. I'd imagine that the moisture within would, in turn, affect railhead conditions.

 

[theageofthetra]

There are so many variables to low adhesion that it’s very difficult to speculate what the cause was without testing the railhead on the night. Even then, if it was anything like my neck of the woods that day, the torrential rain could have washed off or diluted any evidence of low adhesion.
Is it possible? I’d say yes, I don’t know the chemical makeup of fireworks but any small debris can make the railhead slippery. We have a wood factory near Chirk that can cause issues apparently (like the flour mill example above, I’ve never encountered issues). But I’ve had some scary moments where a level crossing is at a station and the wheels pick up because of the fumes from the exhaust, that’s in good weather too. Low adhesion can come out of nowhere and will catch out even the most experienced of us.

It CAN be worse than some people imagine too. Last year, I travelled nearly a full signal section in emergency and only went from 35mph down to 30mph. Luckily a tunnel came to my aid and I got some grip back on the approach to the red. This was in a 75mph—>50mph section too so the signals weren’t close.

That sounds horrendous. What was the state of the lineside vegetation in that area?

 

[Grumpy Git]

The worst consistently thick fog that I think I've ever driven in was later in the evening on Bonfire Night - mile after mile of virtually zero visibility. I understand that the particles in the smoky mist that's left over after a fireworks display, probably combined with the smoke from the bonfire itself, can promote the formation of a much thicker fog. I'd imagine that the moisture within would, in turn, affect railhead conditions.

Which is smog and it extremenly hazardous to heath. This is why smokeless solid fuels were made mandatory in urban areas in the days of coal fires. I'm old enough to remember animated nationwide television advertisments in periods of foggy weather telling people not to burn smoky fuels.

https://www.nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/smog/

Smog is air pollution that reduces visibility. The term "smog" was first used in the early 1900s to describe a mix of smoke and fog. The smoke usually came from burning coal. Smog was common in industrial areas, and remains a familiar sight in cities today.

Today, most of the smog we see is photochemical smog. Photochemical smog is produced when sunlight reacts with nitrogen oxides and at least one volatile organic compound (VOC) in the atmosphere. Nitrogen oxides come from car exhaust, coal power plants, and factory emissions. VOCs are released from gasoline, paints, and many cleaning solvents. When sunlight hits these chemicals, they form airborne particles and ground-level ozone—or smog.

 

[sw1ller]

That sounds horrendous. What was the state of the lineside vegetation in that area?

It was raised up on a viaduct, leading into a city with high walls. There is a few trees on approach but nothing out of the ordinary.
It was leading up to a red that USUALLY steps up to single yellow on approach, and that’s exactly what happened. I could also see the line ahead was clear so it’s not as bad as it first sounds. Still, was a bit of a toe curler. I’ve had a few slides in my time but that was certainly the worst.

we did have one driver about 8 years ago approach a notorious station at 20mph in full emergency and left the other side at 30mph! Not much you can do once in emergency.