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Phase 2a through Stoke-on-Trent?

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MattRat

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There are two groups in the HS2 discussion, or at least when talking about it being built. We'll ignore those who want to scrap the whole thing for the purpose of this discussion. Anyway, there are those that want the whole thing built, and those who say the whole thing is too expensive. Looking at the proposals by those wishing to cost cut, you'd think it would be impossible to please both sides. Well, I may have stumbled upon such a solution...

Looking at a map, Stoke-on-Trent is not far from Crewe, where Phase 2a is headed. However, it's alignment with Sheffield is much better. This makes a prime spot to serve both Manchester and Sheffield. You can also create a spur to Crewe that while it isn't the best alignment, would still allow access to areas such as Liverpool and further north to Scotland. But why the need to have all services run oh this line? Becuase it reduces cost.

Phase 2a is already being built and costed for. While this realignment would add to the price, it would still be cheaper than say, Birmingham to Toton, which is part of the Eastern leg of Phase 2b. Of course you still need to get to Sheffield and beyond, but that would hopefully be similar to Toton to Sheffield, and beyond would be exactly the same. Now, while the price reduction wouldn't be as big as some other ideas, it is still a price reduction, and one that would deliver the exact same services as the original project, bar Toton and the surrounding area, although in the grand scheme of things it's a tiny sacrifice.

So, I'd like your thoughts and opinions. Is my rough maths right and this will save money? Does it deliver on the original promise or HS2 or not? Anything else I may have missed? Thank you advance for your comments.
 
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Ianno87

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Phase 2a has Royal Assent. So if you want to put the whole thing back by 10 years, feel free....
 

MattRat

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Phase 2a has Royal Assent. So if you want to put the whole thing back by 10 years, feel free....
Then how would you work Stoke-on-Trent into it without that problem? Would anything including it need to be in Phase 2b?
 

Ianno87

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Then how would you work Stoke-on-Trent into it without that problem? Would anything including it need to be in Phase 2b?

You operate the proposed Euston-Stafford-Stoke-Macclesfield HS2 service, as planned, leaving HS2 North of Lichfield.
 

Gareth

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Leaving aside Phase 2b, I think the alignment from Euston to Crewe is pretty much spot on.
 

MattRat

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Leaving aside Phase 2b, I think the alignment from Euston to Crewe is pretty much spot on.
For Liverpool only. Manchester would actually have a straighter path to it via Stoke-on-Trent, and of course it would be a good alignment to Sheffield and beyond.
 

Ianno87

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For Liverpool only. Manchester would actually have a straighter path to it via Stoke-on-Trent, and of course it would be a good alignment to Sheffield and beyond.

How do you get into the Centre of Manchester itself?
 

Gareth

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For Liverpool only. Manchester would actually have a straighter path to it via Stoke-on-Trent, and of course it would be a good alignment to Sheffield and beyond.

For Liverpool, North West, North Wales (if ever electrified) and Scotland.

Anyway, Liverpool gets a bad enough deal from Phase 2b without Phase 2a being made worse for it.
 

Ianno87

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.

Anyway, Liverpool gets a bad enough deal from Phase 2b

If you completely ignore the proposed provision for a Liverpool-facing junction on Phase 2b (to basically mirror the Manchester one), that is.
 

30907

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For Liverpool only. Manchester would actually have a straighter path to it via Stoke-on-Trent, and of course it would be a good alignment to Sheffield and beyond.
I think Nottingham and Derby might have issues....and the good alignment through the Peak would have to be almost entirely in tunnel.
 

snowball

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Stoke City Council did want it routed via the city but was overruled long ago - about 2014 if I remember correctly. I think their route would have continued to Crewe.
 

MattRat

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I think Nottingham and Derby might have issues....and the good alignment through the Peak would have to be almost entirely in tunnel.
Compared to other cost cutting ideas, that's a minor problem, since they aren't 'major' cities. Also, in regards to tunnels, what's new?
 

GrimsbyPacer

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The Stoke area really deserves to be served by mainline HS2 trains if the plan goes ahead, I saw a plan for a Newcastle-Under-Lyme station on a spur from the West Coast Mainline, a similar spur but from HS2 would improve Stoke area to Birmingham travel slightly. Phase 2B is just too badly designed to save, it'll never be ideal.

Compared to other cost cutting ideas, that's a minor problem, since they aren't 'major' cities. Also, in regards to tunnels, what's new?
Nottingham is a major city, about the same size as Sheffield.
 

Gareth

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If you completely ignore the proposed provision for a Liverpool-facing junction on Phase 2b (to basically mirror the Manchester one), that is.

Proposed and still a band aid over an axe wound. So yes, I will be ignoring it for the time being.
 

PTR 444

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There are two groups in the HS2 discussion, or at least when talking about it being built. We'll ignore those who want to scrap the whole thing for the purpose of this discussion. Anyway, there are those that want the whole thing built, and those who say the whole thing is too expensive. Looking at the proposals by those wishing to cost cut, you'd think it would be impossible to please both sides. Well, I may have stumbled upon such a solution...

Looking at a map, Stoke-on-Trent is not far from Crewe, where Phase 2a is headed. However, it's alignment with Sheffield is much better.
How is it much better? You’d have to turn NE to get a direct alignment from Stoke to Sheffield, not to mention the Peak District right in its path.

I’m guessing the next thing you’ll mention is running Euston - Leeds trains via Stockport and Guide Bridge…
 
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