Trivia: Rolling stock which isn’t really compatible for a route it operates

[JonathanH]

I think the 156s and 158s are very unsuitable for the, Fort William, Kyle Of Lochalsh, Mallaig, Oban, Thurso, Wick, services. It is a joke that such stock is used on what are some of the most scenic train routes in the country. I think the 170s and 185s would be perfect for these lines.

No, 156s have very large windows which are ideal and 158s have good alignment of seats to the windows. They are perfectly suitable for scenic journeys and better than 170s or 185s in thie respect.

 

[dk1]

I think the 156s and 158s are very unsuitable for the, Fort William, Kyle Of Lochalsh, Mallaig, Oban, Thurso, Wick, services. It is a joke that such stock is used on what are some of the most scenic train routes in the country. I think the 170s and 185s would be perfect for these lines.

Also the 153s are a very poor choice for the Heart Of Wales line services. Again this line really needs some higher quality stock like the 170s and 185s as it is a very scenic line.

170s or 185s would be no good for the West Highland Line due to multi-unit working & would be very restrictive for catering & conductor. Perhaps 172s would be a better suit.

2-car 170s (270-273) where to be assigned to the HoWL but that got rescinded.

 

[Llama]

The Bolton Manchester corridor is intensively used and the performance of these 150s is presently a limiting factor.

The Rochdales are regularly a few minutes late departing Bolton for Salford and hold up the Airport/Hazel Grove EMUs (timed to depart Bolton 5 minutes behind).

The electrification and journey time scheme from a few years ago is currently partially wasted with 100mph EMUs crawling past yellow signals all the way into Manchester.

The timetable from December sees the Clitheroe to Rochdale arrive at Bolton 2 minutes earlier with a 3 minute dwell (instead of the current 1 minute) so Network Rail are aware 75mph DMUs pose a performance issue here.


The compound there has recently experienced a flurry of activity and materials delivery

A 75mph DMU can get from Bolton platform 1 to Salford Crescent in 10 minutes, they are usually booked 12-15 minutes; and the Blackpool-Hazel Groves can do Bolton-Crescent in 8 minutes, usually booked anything from 11-14 minutes. There's more than enough slack and as I've said in another thread opening up a 331 on a Hazel Grove from Bolton, getting up to 55mph (the max permissible speed is 55mph until after Burnden Jn) and then coasting nearly all the way to Crescent only takes 11 minutes and that way you're not 'chasing yellows'.

Rather suspect the performance risk down there actually comes from late/overtime dwelling at Crescent of trains from Atherton.

 

[Wolfie]

I think the 156s and 158s are very unsuitable for the, Fort William, Kyle Of Lochalsh, Mallaig, Oban, Thurso, Wick, services. It is a joke that such stock is used on what are some of the most scenic train routes in the country. I think the 170s and 185s would be perfect for these lines.

Also the 153s are a very poor choice for the Heart Of Wales line services. Again this line really needs some higher quality stock like the 170s and 185s as it is a very scenic line.

I would also say that the 345s are very unsuitable for the Crossrail services. The class 700s are what should have been ordered. They are similarly high capacity with very wide spacious aisles but instead they have normal (not longitudal) seating and are a much better design and far more pleasant to travel on.

Finally the 158s and 159s on the Salisbury to Romsey stoppers are not very suitable. SWT used to have 170s which were perfect for this work but the stupidly got rid of them.

I wasn't aware that the primary factor in stock suitability was the view from the window or the age of the stock.

TfL like longitudinal seating which they find fits their purposes. Their train set, their rules. Lots on here have posted at length about the perceived inadequacies of the 700s.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Oct 2021 ==

No, 156s have very large windows which are ideal and 158s have good alignment of seats to the windows. They are perfectly suitable for scenic journeys and better than 170s or 185s in thie respect.

Exactly.

 

[Halish Railway]

The Bolton Manchester corridor is intensively used and the performance of these 150s is presently a limiting factor.

The Rochdales are regularly a few minutes late departing Bolton for Salford and hold up the Airport/Hazel Grove EMUs (timed to depart Bolton 5 minutes behind).

The electrification and journey time scheme from a few years ago is currently partially wasted with 100mph EMUs crawling past yellow signals all the way into Manchester.

The timetable from December sees the Clitheroe to Rochdale arrive at Bolton 2 minutes earlier with a 3 minute dwell (instead of the current 1 minute) so Network Rail are aware 75mph DMUs pose a performance issue here.

This is a tricky one - Really the route ought to be electrified all the way to Clitheroe, but I’d imagine that the cost:benefit ratio would be poor with just 1tph beyond Blackburn. You could argue that 2tph could go all the way to Clitheroe, however, in my opinion at least the pre-COVID train that terminates at Blackburn should go to Burnley, maybe even Skipton if SELRAP actually happens, but I digress.

As shown by the 769s, bi-mode/battery units will cause problems between Bolton & Salford Crescent, with them being limited to 75mph, meaning that there isn’t much to be gained by using these to replace Sprinters.

 

[td97]

There's more than enough slack and as I've said in another thread opening up a 331 on a Hazel Grove from Bolton, getting up to 55mph (the max permissible speed is 55mph until after Burnden Jn) and then coasting nearly all the way to Crescent only takes 11 minutes and that way you're not 'chasing yellows'.

But these services should be getting to 95mph on the Up. Settling for 55mph and coasting to Salford is at best unambitious, and at worst fails to deliver the benefits of electrification and journey time improvement. Every minute of journey time saving is worth £millions to the economy when these schemes are funded.

 

[ValleyLines142]

There's always a way to fix that...sit in the declassified 1st class on that route.

Which is currently blocked off for staff travel....

Only chance you've got is the very small 2+2 section (with tables) in the centre of the 166s.

 

[Llama]

But these services should be getting to 95mph on the Up. Settling for 55mph and coasting to Salford is at best unambitious, and at worst fails to deliver the benefits of electrification and journey time improvement. Every minute of journey time saving is worth £millions to the economy when these schemes are funded.

The sectional running times don't demand 95mph. They don't even demand 60mph.

Plus with the likelihood of catching up a late runner there is no point hammering it down at 95mph then sitting at a red at Windsor Bridge North for 2+ minutes - that's the worst of both worlds.