Snow Route Advice

[lyesbkz]

I'm supposed to be travelling from Sheffield to Newcastle on Friday, however looking at the weather there are likely to be disruptions and cancellations on my route.

I have Advance tickets requiring me to take a TPE service to Doncaster, change there then continue on the East Coast service to Newcastle.

My question is, if the TPE service is cancelled, what is the likelihood I will be able to instead catch the direct XC service straight from Sheffield to Newcastle with my tickets (which seems to be affected far less than the TPE routes)?

 

[ChrisTheRef]

Hopefully common sense will prevail with the large amount of disruption going on at the moment.

Go to the ticket office at Sheffield (if the TPE is indeed cancelled) and ask them to authorise travel on the direct train.
If they say no, ask the guard on the XC when it arrives at the station. If you get declined on both accounts, you'll have to sit and wait for a TPE to Doncaster.

 

[cuccir]

What validity is your ticket? If it is either 'tp and connections' or 'easst coast and connections' then you shpuld be able to take the next reasonable service in your direction of trave, if your.service is cancelled or severely delayed. It is only on a 'tp only ticket that you should worry about the train operator that you use, for this journwey

 

[John @ home]

only on a 'tp only ticket that you should worry about the train operator that you use

Now that the Club 55 offer has closed, there are no Sheffield - Newcastle fares route TP only.

 

[cuccir]

Now that the Club 55 offer has closed, there are no Sheffield - Newcastle fares route TP only.

Yes, that's true, there's no way of using TP only to get between Newcastle and Sheffield. So the ticket must be either 'East Coast and Connections' or 'TP and Connections' (I've had both travelling on this route) and is therefore valid on any operators services between the destinations (in the event of cancellations), even without extra allowances for snow.

 

[lyesbkz]

Yes, that's true, there's no way of using TP only to get between Newcastle and Sheffield. So the ticket must be either 'East Coast and Connections' or 'TP and Connections' (I've had both travelling on this route) and is therefore valid on any operators services between the destinations (in the event of cancellations), even without extra allowances for snow.

So despite having a (mandatory) reservation booked on the TPE service for the first leg of my journey, and a (mandatory) reservation on an EC service for the second leg; because my tickets are AP TPE & CONNECT / BOOKDTRAINONLY then I should technically be able to use them on the CrossCountry service instead given that the TPE service is not running?

 

[cuccir]

Short answer - Yes

Long answer - Is the TPE service definitely not running tomorrow? If it is cancelled then the following line in the Terms and Conditons applies:

"If the train you purchased a ticket for is cancelled or delayed by more than 60 minutes, special arrangements will be made to accommodate you on another train "

Basically, this will mean that you can catch any (reasonable) service to make your journey. If this cancellation is announced in advance I don't see why it wouldn't include earlier services, so that you can make your train from Doncaster. Equally, if you can get onto a train that goes directly from Sheffield to Newcastle (via Doncaster), that would be fine to. However, because you have an '& Connections' ticket, this means that you're not tied to any train company out of Doncaster. So if you are delayed, the following condition applies:

"If delays occur while travelling, you will be allowed to take the next available train(s) to complete your journey."

The next available train would be any train from Doncaster to Newcastle.

If your first train is running but delayed by less than 60 minutes then, strictly speaking you have to wait (as the first of these conditions wouldn't apply) for your booked train, but can then get any train out of Doncaster if you miss your connection. In practice, given the bad conditions, I imagine most guards would let you on any service, particularly a through one to Newcastle, even if your train might still arrive within the hour, unless their train is full.

 

[attics26]

at the moment with East Coast's snow timetable you can travel 2 hours either side of your booked time anyway (thats EC only)

 

[lyesbkz]

Thanks for all the help everyone, just thought I'd update as to what happened.

Turns out that although the TPE services were not running to Doncaster (due to line closures to Cleethorpes), Northern Rail were still running services so I just caught a Northern to Doncaster then a replacement EC service home (incidentally I had my tickets checked a total of zero times, excluding the ticket barriers at Newcastle).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Ok my return journey is a bit more difficult - my East Coast service was cancelled so I caught the next available train (which was a CrossCountry service, which should be fine as their website states they are accepting tickets for East Coast services and my tickets were Tpe & Connections with the connection being East Coast). However I have been told I will have to sit in Standard despite having a 1st class ticket, even though 1st is practically empty. Are they allowed to do this?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Ok my return journey is a bit more difficult - my East Coast service was cancelled so I caught the next available train (which was a CrossCountry service, which should be fine as their website states they are accepting tickets for East Coast services and my tickets were Tpe & Connections with the connection being East Coast). However I have been told I will have to sit in Standard despite having a 1st class ticket, even though 1st is practically empty. Are they allowed to do this?

 

[yorkie]

However I have been told I will have to sit in Standard despite having a 1st class ticket, even though 1st is practically empty. Are they allowed to do this?

Get the guards name and write to XC making a complaint about his/her conduct.

I can't believe they are allowed to say that although I don't actually know for sure, but I'd definitely write to XC to complain.

It sounds like the guard may be making that up. I've never heard of such a rule before.

I would also add in your letter that you may consider XC Advance tickets in future, however you would like re-assurances about staff conduct if you are to make this choice.

This complaint about staff conduct would be separate to a Delay Repay claim to TPE for the actual delay incurred due to the cancellation (you can mention on there that XC refused to let you in 1st class, but I wouldn't count on that message reaching XC, and XC really need to know so that the guard can be given a word, I think).

The vast majority of guards do a good job, but a small minority give the rest a bad name at times. This is unfair on the majority, so it is in everyone's interests that XC are informed if any of their guards are not reaching a high standard.

Please let us know what XC say.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

.... However I have been told I will have to sit in Standard despite having a 1st class ticket, even though 1st is practically empty. Are they allowed to do this?....

43. Help from Train Companies if you are stranded

If disruption caused by circumstances within the control of a Train Company or a Rail
Service Company leaves you stranded before you have reached your destination and the
Train Company whose trains you are entitled to use is unable to get you to that destination
by other means, any Train Company which is in a position to help will, if it reasonably can,
either arrange to get you to that destination, or provide overnight accommodation for you.

.......

45. Circumstances that are not within a Train Company’s control

For the purposes of Conditions 42 and 43, circumstances that are not within a Train
Company’s control include:

(a) acts or threats of vandalism or terrorism;

(b) suicides or accidents involving trespassers;

(c) gas leaks or fires in lineside buildings not caused by a Train Company or a Rail
Service Company or any of their employees or agents;

(d) line closures at the request of the police or emergency services;

(e) exceptionally severe weather conditions;

(f) industrial action by a Train Company’s, or Rail Service Company’s, staff or agents
or by any other person;

(g) riots or civil commotion; and

(h) fire, mechanical or electrical failure or a defect (except where this is caused by a
Train Company or Rail Service Company or their employees or agents, or as a
result of the condition of a Train Company’s trains).

XC didn't have to do anything for you, the fact you were allowed on their services is something. The instructions for XC staff may have been that EC [and/or TPE] tickets can be accepted in standard class with no seperate instruction for first class tickets. I would have thought that unusual though, because it is needlessly long winded, I'd have expected something like XC are accepting EC [and/or TPE] tickets.

 

[Railjet]

I can't believe they are allowed to say that although I don't actually know for sure, but I'd definitely write to XC to complain.

It sounds like the guard may be making that up. I've never heard of such a rule before.

Funnily enough, I saw a very similar thing on another forum recently - this time, Virgin. The passenger's experience went like this:

I was on an East Coast 1st advance ticket but due to the delays on the ECML I was allowed to travel on Virgin. On board the guard said I either had to move to standard or pay an upgrade to the full fare. I said I'd pay the upgrade as long as he double checked whether I really needed to.

Five minutes later he returned and said that due to standard being crowded and the exceptional delays on the east coast he'd not charge the upgrade this time but in normal circumstances I should be in standard if I'm on another operators ticket and only travelling on Virgin due to disruption.

 

[cuccir]

XC didn't have to do anything for you, the fact you were allowed on their services is something. The instructions for XC staff may have been that EC [and/or TPE] tickets can be accepted in standard class with no seperate instruction for first class tickets. I would have thought that unusual though, because it is needlessly long winded, I'd have expected something like XC are accepting EC [and/or TPE] tickets.

The ticket is TPE&Connections anyway meaning, in the event of delays/cancellations, its not TOC restricted.

 

[Dewedin]

XC didn't have to do anything for you, the fact you were allowed on their services is something. The instructions for XC staff may have been that EC [and/or TPE] tickets can be accepted in standard class with no seperate instruction for first class tickets. I would have thought that unusual though, because it is needlessly long winded, I'd have expected something like XC are accepting EC [and/or TPE] tickets.

Should we really let them get away with the 'exceptionally severe weather' excuse? I'm pretty sure it snows every year and so should be regarded as part of Britain's normal weather cycle.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

The ticket is TPE&Connections anyway meaning, in the event of delays/cancellations, its not TOC restricted.

That's a fair point, I hadn't considered that, maybe the guard didn't either.

 

[lyesbkz]

It sounds like the guard may be making that up. I've never heard of such a rule before.

As I was packing my things ready to move, the guard had reached Standard and decided that (possibly because Standard was so busy) he would "not mind me staying in 1st" (I've never known a Guard to go back on their word after arguing something!) however when his colleague did another ticket check after the staff changeover at Leeds it would be up to the new guard whether I could stay for the remainder of the journey.

Fortunately the new guard didn't have a problem at all, just checked my tickets normally and didn't say anything...

I wasn't too impressed with XC really, the seats felt particularly uncomfortable (compared to EC and TPE) and there were no complimentaries at all in my two-hour journey (though seemingly they'd been handed out once on the journey before I boarded), but I suppose it's based on luck and staff availability particularly with the weather.

I'll certainly keep buying TPE & Connections tickets and changing at Doncaster where I can rather than buying direct XC journeys - I'll be saving money and having a more pleasant journey in my opinion.