ScotRail Industrial Relations issues (including conductor strike action)

[Goldfish62]

Not at all, but fighting for earnings and terms and conditions are fundamental to the union’s existence.

If you don’t support that stance then why pay into it?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Oct 2021 ==

You're presupposing everything is black and white.

It's quite legitimate to support the overall aim, but to have concerns about how a union handles a specific dispute. That's why you get members voting against a union recommendation in any ballot.

Remember - the union works for its members, not the other way around.

 

[the sniper]

I‘ll bet you’ve never heard them complaining about getting the pay rises they wouldn’t be getting if it wasn’t for the union.

Indeed...

Though these people usually seem to think they could have negotiated their own, better deal, somehow better than decades of above inflation pay rises. Characters, usually.

 

[PaulMc7]

Indeed...

Though these people usually seem to think they could have negotiated their own, better deal, somehow better than decades of above inflation pay rises. Characters, usually.

To be honest, going by the lack of clarity over what the RMT actually want at times on here even from people within the union I do think people posting on here could probably have done a better job than the RMT. Being realistic in the present day's circumstances would also probably help the union a bit.

I wouldn't say the union has done the best for its members either. Surely coming up with a new tactic in say May/June would have been a far more intelligent move? Yes, rest days are the main talking point but strikes on other days far earlier may have actually got negotiations occuring much quicker.

 

[John Bishop]

Is there any particular reason why the RMT members were not given the chance to vote on the 2 latest offers from Scotrail? I know a few members who are quite displeased about that.

 

[68000]

There is little clarity surrounding this dispute. Some on here say it is not about RDW and others insist it is. Some say the RMT agreed to something which they want to change others say the RMT did not agree to anything. It seems bait & switch / deflection is the MO these days

 

[LoogaBarooga]

Is there any particular reason why the RMT members were not given the chance to vote on the 2 latest offers from Scotrail? I know a few members who are quite displeased about that.

Are they conductors?

 

[380101]

Are they conductors?

Whilst it's the Conductors and TEs that have so far been carrying out industrial action over the rdw payment issue, all general grades at ScotRail had the overtime payment and had it withdrawn. The Conductors and TEs were the only grades who, after an indicitive ballot, were prepared to take action way back at the start of the issue.

The pay offer made to TSSA, Unite, Aslef and RMT was for all general grades so regardless if they are a conductor or not they would be entitled to a vote on the pay offer if a member of the RMT.

 

[LoogaBarooga]

Conductors stand to loose the most though so that's why I'm asking. I'm sure for most other grades it's a perfectly acceptable offer.

 

[John Bishop]

Are they conductors?

Yes they are.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Oct 2021 ==

I understand that the prospect of losing everything on the table if/ when the strike goes ahead is a bit of a game changer for them.

The RMT substantially loses its fighting position once COP 26 is over and the subsequent prospect of getting anything like What’s on the table just now (even considering the sacrifices) is very slim indeed.

I genuinely think the RMT didn’t believe it would ever get near to strike action during COP 26 and in reality that prospect was its trump card. They’ve played it, so let’s see if it’s enough to win the game.

 

[380101]

Latest offer from ScotRail has been rejected by RMT delegates at the RMT AGM this morning. ScotRail issued a deadline of 5pm on Wednesday afternoon to accept the deal or it's completely off the table.

 

[LoogaBarooga]

Is this the offer that was put forward on Friday or a new one?

 

[380101]

Is this the offer that was put forward on Friday or a new one?

I believe they increased the RDW enhancement to 3 hours additional pay which is still not what they had previously I'm told. Not being RMT I've only heard it from RMT colleagues this morning.

 

[Donhamer]

The problem as far as I can see the condition regarding Revenue Protection. This is far too vague and could potentially completely change the role of Conductors.

I think what’s on offer is better for other grades than it is for Conductors.

I reckon if the part about Revenue Protection was dropped from the conditions the dispute would be over instantly.

 

[PaulMc7]

Latest offer from ScotRail has been rejected by RMT delegates at the RMT AGM this morning. ScotRail issued a deadline of 5pm on Wednesday afternoon to accept the deal or it's completely off the table.

I wonder how tempted they were to take it off of the table today. I'd be surprised if the RMT accept anything by Wednesday

 

[Christmas]

Transport Scotland are effectively using so called pay negotiations to rewrite guards' contracts. Disgusting and I hope the RMT stands firmly against this.

 

[footprints]

Transport Scotland are effectively using so called pay negotiations to rewrite guards' contracts. Disgusting and I hope the RMT stands firmly against this.

If it's such a terrible and disgusting offer, why are the RMT seemingly terrified of letting their members actually vote on it?

 

[InOban]

It's in the interests of the tax- and fare-payer that the duties of on-board staff add as much value as possible both to the passenger journey and to the business. Like any other business, it's not the primary purpose to employ people. And the best way of ensuring the future employment of RMT members is for the union to work with the employer to ensure that they are increasingly valuable.

 

[PaulMc7]

It's in the interests of the tax- and fare-payer that the duties of on-board staff add as much value as possible both to the passenger journey and to the business. Like any other business, it's not the primary purpose to employ people. And the best way of ensuring the future employment of RMT members is for the union to work with the employer to ensure that they are increasingly valuable.

This is the key thing for me. Rail fares are already pretty unaffordable for me compared to the bus and if they do get a pay rise we will be the ones paying for it which will then price more people out of using the train meaning less services and less need for more conductors meaning job losses. There's going to be a fare rise in the near future as it happens every year so if jobs are to be secure that fare rise has to be kept as minimal as possible.

 

[Christmas]

If it's such a terrible and disgusting offer, why are the RMT seemingly terrified of letting their members actually vote on it?

Do you want a ballot every day?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Oct 2021 ==

It's in the interests of the tax- and fare-payer that the duties of on-board staff add as much value as possible both to the passenger journey and to the business. Like any other business, it's not the primary purpose to employ people. And the best way of ensuring the future employment of RMT members is for the union to work with the employer to ensure that they are increasingly valuable.

If the guards were asked to do additional duties onboard their trains then that's fine and I'm sure they would have no objection. The point is that they are now being told that they will have to do someone else's work.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Oct 2021 ==

This is the key thing for me. Rail fares are already pretty unaffordable for me compared to the bus and if they do get a pay rise we will be the ones paying for it which will then price more people out of using the train meaning less services and less need for more conductors meaning job losses. There's going to be a fare rise in the near future as it happens every year so if jobs are to be secure that fare rise has to be kept as minimal as possible.

Fares are regulated and go up every January. Next...

 

[footprints]

Do you want a ballot every day?

Just the one ballot on the offer the other unions have been happy to accept or put to their members would be nice.

 

[Christmas]

Just the one ballot on the offer the other unions have been happy to accept or put to their members would be nice.

The other unions accepted offers with no strings. Can't you understand this?

 

[PaulMc7]

Do you want a ballot every day?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Oct 2021 ==


If the guards were asked to do additional duties onboard their trains then that's fine and I'm sure they would have no objection. The point is that they are now being told that they will have to do someone else's work.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Oct 2021 ==


Fares are regulated and go up every January. Next...

They do but that's my point entirely. They go up every year pricing more and more people out of using the trains. A point will come when jobs are lost due to that if it keeps happening.

 

[footprints]

The other unions accepted offers with no strings. Can't you understand this?

Strings or no strings, there's surely only one reason why the RMT aren't putting this offer to their members. The union's stance is a PR gift to Scotrail.

 

[ainsworth74]

As a reminder this dispute does not involved DOO and therefore any discussion of DOO is off-topic and will be deleted as such.

 

[GlitterUnicorn]

If the guards were asked to do additional duties onboard their trains then that's fine and I'm sure they would have no objection. The point is that they are now being told that they will have to do someone else's work.

What additional duties are being asked for?

 

[Christmas]

What additional duties are being asked for?

Covering shortages on gatelines. Operating ticket barriers. A different job entirely.

 

[6Z09]

The other unions accepted offers with no strings. Can't you understand this?

So they should just accept Sunday as part of the working week with no increase in salary whatsoever??

 

[PaulMc7]

So they should just accept Sunday as part of the working week with no increase in salary whatsoever??

Sunday should be part of the working week in theory given the industry requirements but you could probably find a fair way to do the working week. 5 days from any 7 for example would be fine surely? Obviously include flexibility so you know in advance what shifts you'd have and so the same people don't do every Sunday either.

 

[snookertam]

The problem as far as I can see the condition regarding Revenue Protection. This is far too vague and could potentially completely change the role of Conductors.

I think what’s on offer is better for other grades than it is for Conductors.

I reckon if the part about Revenue Protection was dropped from the conditions the dispute would be over instantly.

Yes, this basically sums the issue up in a nutshell. No other grade has been expected to step in and cover for another role as part of their pay settlement, hence the difference in the response by the union representing conductors.

The demand that the RMT ballot it’s members should be seen for what it is, which is purely an attempt to avert the prospect of a strike during the summit. The action would have to be suspended in order to do so, however the prospect of strike action is the union’s biggest leverage here.

A lot of people attending the summit are staying in Edinburgh for the duration. The prospect of no train service between the cities during the summit is causing a lot of concern among both delegates and accommodation providers. There will be chaos if this isn’t resolved.

 

[Christmas]

So they should just accept Sunday as part of the working week with no increase in salary whatsoever??

I think you have the wrong end of the stick.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Oct 2021 ==

Sunday should be part of the working week in theory given the industry requirements but you could probably find a fair way to do the working week. 5 days from any 7 for example would be fine surely? Obviously include flexibility so you know in advance what shifts you'd have and so the same people don't do every Sunday either.

Why would traincrew want to work 5 days per week when they currently work 4?