769s are no quicker than a 150/156 unit up the hill from Manchester to Bolton and also can't do MU differential speeds. Although that fact seems to need reiterating to some of the knuckle-draggers among drivers.
What the heck has Northern done to them? There is no way that a DMU should be able to keep up with a 319 or a 769 on electric. I actually had my first good run on an 319 from Manchester to Crewe a few weeks ago. Full power from a stand; four late off Piccadilly, two early into Crewe. Much better than the usual slow runs. Clearly a driver on a mission.
Who catches the Poole stopper all the way? A 450 is absolutely the right unit for a local service such as this. It is just a load of stopping services strung together for operational convenience, just like the Bournemouth slow was when the first 4-Veps were built.
Sorry?
Simple question. Why? What is the down side? Tube trains do it. Plenty of trains do it in other countries.
When it ran through to Waterloo, plenty of people used it through to the south coast, as it offered cheaper advance fares.
Right, but the fact that a few people are happy to travel long distances on a stopping train doesn't mean it ought to have 444s operating it.
In general twice the frequency though....
Simple answer - we were told in a notice posted not long after the 319s entered service on the Chat Moss routes that there were excessive traction motor flashovers occurring, that any 319 suffering a TM flashover would have the OTMR downloaded and any drivers found to be driving them straight to notch 3/4 would be subject to possible disciplinary procedures.
There's always a way to fix that...sit in the declassified 1st class on that route.
How come they can't take advantage of MU speeds? Does the combination of traction motors and diesel engines make it too heavy? Why can it only hit 55, are the brakes not good enough, I thought there was a 100mph section between Bolton and Mcr Vic/Deansgate?
They were delivered in mint condition and they wanted to break them in a bit!Sorry?
Whilst true, anecdotally the overcrowding on 4 and 5 car sets was pretty bad alot of the time. Has improved since the service was doubled up to 9 car trains albeit less often. Very rare to need to stand now (except when a 4 car pulls in).
Not great if everyone turns up for the same one though!
Declassified 1st has been closed since the start of COVID, nor is it an option when the train is packed
Only when it isn't locked out of use for that one member of staff to travel between Trowbridge & Westbury
They are not permitted to do MU/DMU/EMU speeds. Yes most likely the extra weight means they have a larger 'kinematic envelope' than 319s do so they effectively could sway more on the suspension especially if crush-loaded. It is unlikely to be solely due to the weight as the PMS vehicle on 319/769s is still 15 tonnes heavier than the driving cars on 769s (and the PMS car was designed from new with different bogies and more robust suspension). The PMS car on 319s and 769s have no major changes other than some electronic diagnostic kit and a DC return earth bus line on 769s.
OK, that makes more sense. So it needs resignalling to increase the number of paths before it's worth bothering with higher speeds?
Not necessarily, there is a huge risk of congestion around Salford Crescent so I would assume there is performance time added into the WTT. It's noticeable that trains tend to be timed more generously coming from Bolton towards Manchester than the other way where the timings can even be a bit too tight.
A tram-train tunnel taking most Atherton line/Warrington Central trains off the national network would help here I suspect, but that's a long way off.
Spot on!!
Fair enough. I think the class 317s have the same motors and, in my experience, they often get hammered on the Cambridge line. Unlike the GEML which has a fair bit of slack, one can't hang about on the West Anglia line if you want to keep time.
The Bolton Manchester corridor is intensively used and the performance of these 150s is presently a limiting factor.
The compound there has recently experienced a flurry of activity and materials delivery