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ScotRail Industrial Relations issues (including conductor strike action)

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maradona10

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Mate half the roads are closing and certain stations are due to be closed in and around the conference venue. Public transport is essential during it. You’re having a laugh if you’re saying it’s not that relevant. I get you’re probably playing devils advocate but it’s unfathomable.
 
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MadCommuter

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12 days in a month is a significant financial loss to those striking. Did the ballot just ask about willingness to strike? How do union members feel about such a long strike?
 

DanNCL

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There's no doubt that there would have been slightly higher demand than normal focused on the conference venues. In exactly the same way there's been always somewhat higher demand during August for the Edinburgh Festivals, and somewhat higher demand during weekends in December for Christmas shopping.
It’s less about overall demand. Glasgow (and in turn the UK as a whole, not to mention the rail network) will become even more of a global laughing stock than it already is if ScotRail is allowed to effectively shut down during the conference when the entire world is watching.
 

Starmill

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bleating about reducing emissions, climate emergency blah blah blah.
That's just it though. That's actually all talk. It's not acting on it. They're not taking the M8 through Glasgow down and building social housing on it. They're not cutting public transport prices in half. They're not banning driving into city centres or tolling the motorways. They're not withdrawing the air subsidies or investing in electric ferries and buses. They're not even getting the basics right.
 

maradona10

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12 days in a month is a significant financial loss to those striking. Did the ballot just ask about willingness to strike? How do union members feel about such a long strike?
I don’t think we’re expecting it to go ahead truth be told, in the unlikely event that it did it would be disastrous for all involved. There is no winners and it’s in everyone’s best interests to strike a deal to ensure that doesn’t happen.
 

MadCommuter

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Mate half the roads are closing and certain stations are due to be closed in and around the conference venue. Public transport is essential during it. You’re having a laugh if you’re saying it’s not that relevant. I get you’re probably playing devils advocate but it’s unfathomable.
Half the roads are not closing, but a significant dual carriageway is, along with ramps to / from the M8. There are also 'surface' streets closing near the venue. I'm not aware of any stations being closed either, but I would need to check.

If companies have any sense, they will ask office workers to WFH for a couple of weeks - my employer already has done so.
 

DanNCL

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That's just it though. That's actually all talk. It's not acting on it. They're not taking the M8 through Glasgow down and building social housing on it. They're not cutting public transport prices in half. They're not banning driving into city centres or tolling the motorways. They're not withdrawing the air subsidies or investing in electric ferries and buses. They're not even getting the basics right.
This entire purpose of this conference is to attempt to get them to act on it.
 

Starmill

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It’s less about overall demand. Glasgow (and in turn the UK as a whole, not to mention the rail network) will become even more of a global laughing stock than it already is if ScotRail is allowed to effectively shut down during the conference when the entire world is watching.
People keep saying that - Scotland is not a world leader on climate change and has a heavy fossil fuel industry. It's a part of the UK which overall is cumulatively responsible for a large share of global emissions, and emissions per person. They're not going to look particularly good regardless.

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This entire purpose of this conference is to attempt to get them to act on it.
Arguably it's to convince the rest of the world to do so - that's kind of the point of being the host. The Conservatives in the UK government have next to no interest in net zero however, and won't spend any morney on it.
 

DanNCL

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People keep saying that - Scotland is not a world leader on climate change and has a heavy fossil fuel industry. It's a part of the UK which overall is cumulatively responsible for a large share of global emissions, and emissions per person. They're not going to look particularly good regardless.
I’m well aware the UK is already a laughing stock but all this will do is make it much more of a laughing stock than it already is.
 

320320

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Aye, but the company has to meet the requirements of Aslef for there to be any rest day working by drivers. As long as they are recruiting and/or training new drivers then Aslef will consider any request by the company for a rest day working agreement. The company currently meet the requirements (mainly because they never succeed in having enough drivers to run the services) and back in 2017 the Aslef company council successfully negotiated an enhanced payment for drivers working their day off.

The driver RDW enhancement has been continually linked, in this thread, to the RMT members RDW enhancement when it wasn’t even related to it in the first place.
 

DanNCL

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Arguably it's to convince the rest of the world to do so - that's kind of the point of being the host. The Conservatives in the UL government have next to no interest in net zero however, and won't spend any morney on it.
It’s a UN conference and they’re the ones trying to convince everyone, including the UK, to act. The UK is hosting it to try and make themselves look better on the global stage and what a way to screw it up by having the ScotRail network off for the duration of the conference.
 

Starmill

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It’s a UN conference and they’re the ones trying to convince everyone, including the UK, to act.
Indeed but the politics of being the host of the conference are different to the politics of merely sending your delegation. The Paris climate agreement was what it was because of France and the EU's role in it. The UK is choosing to play its role very differently.
 

EMU303

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Don’t think it will play well with the public. Jumping from Sunday striking to a full 12 days for COP26. They may feel they are expendable because COP26 is in town.

Regardless of the in/outs of the strike and who’s to blame, it will further damage passenger numbers and make it more difficult to get people back.

I work for a global company employing 60k people. Going forward the office space will be a max of 40%. So only a max of 2 days in the office a week. Many companies with UK employees are doing the same. Whilst you might want to fill some of that spare train capacity by teasing/forcing drivers out of their cars it’s looking pretty gloomy for the sustainability of train services going forward.
 

maradona10

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Half the roads are not closing, but a significant dual carriageway is, along with ramps to / from the M8. There are also 'surface' streets closing near the venue. I'm not aware of any stations being closed either, but I would need to check.

If companies have any sense, they will ask office workers to WFH for a couple of weeks - my employer already has done so.
Quite right to say so, not half… that was tongue and cheek.

There’s been talk of Anderston and Exhibition being used only for ‘special’ stops and services and closed to the public. I’m not sure how it would work.
 

ComUtoR

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All they need to do is offer guards the same terms as the drivers and this thing will be over.

Disclaimer 1 : I'm a Union Man/Person
Disclaimer 2 : I'm a 100% DOO Driver (don't support DOO)
Disclaimer 3 : Guards are amazing and worth their weight in gold. (seriously, you folks are amazing)

However, and apologies in advance, why do you feel that you are worth the same as Drivers ? They are totally different grades and from a TOC perspective they aren't equal.

I will 100% support your right to strike and 100% support your desire for better terms. For this entire dispute I fully support you and what you are striking for. But.. Guards/Drivers/Platform/etc are very different grades and do different roles. There are some T&Cs in the Platform grade that I'm sightly envious of but I would never base my own personal terms on that of another grade.

Why does the Drivers terms and their agreement matter ?

Cheers in advance.
 

Bald Rick

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If it doesn’t work then staff are screwed

Yep. As I said, a big gambit.

It’s absolutely huge and there is no chance they’ll allow disruption to happen during it while the full world is watching.

See above. It seems the RMT are willing to take the risk that there’s ‘no chance’. But, there definitely is a chance ‘they’ (ScotGov) will allow just that. And then, I refer you to the first of your quotes above.

As I said, a big gambit - betting your whole career on an issue like this.
 

380101

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The driver RDW enhancement has been continually linked, in this thread, to the RMT members RDW enhancement when it wasn’t even related to it in the first place.

I know. Talking to colleagues in the grades concerned I've been amazed repeatedly when they say they weren't aware the RDW enhanced payments had nothing to do with the conditions rdw working payments we get as driver's and further amazed that they didn't know their union - RMT - negotiated a time limited deal on enhanced payments.
 

maradona10

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I wouldn’t expect equal terms with drivers, their enhancement should be in line with their salary. I would expect the enhancement but across other grades, if given to drivers, then to be given to guards etc too, in line with their own salaries.
The company kiboshed talks completely with other grades
Yep. As I said, a big gambit.



See above. It seems the RMT are willing to take the risk that there’s ‘no chance’. But, there definitely is a chance ‘they’ (ScotGov) will allow just that. And then, I refer you to the first of your quotes above.

As I said, a big gambit - betting your whole career on an issue like this.
I stand by it, strike won’t happen. Neither do I see it as betting my whole career on it, even if it does.
 

68000

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I wouldn’t expect equal terms with drivers, their enhancement should be in line with their salary. I would expect the enhancement but across other grades, if given to drivers, then to be given to guards etc too, in line with their own salaries.
The company kiboshed talks completely with other grades
but the RMT agreed to certain criteria and now are saying it is not what they meant?
 

maradona10

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I’m not a rep and wasn’t even at ScotRail when the last deal was negotiated so I don’t know what the terms were, but it’s reasonable to suppose the RDW agreement would have been back on the agenda for the negotiations that were to take place just at the first lockdown, talks which then got kiboshed thereafter until now.

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I admire your complete confidence on both counts.
Part wishful thinking part common sense
 
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Bodiddly

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I have been an RMT member for the last 20 odd years and this will be my first actual strike. Let me try to explain why this is such a big issue for members.
We all put our lives at risk to provide transport for the people who were classed as key workers. We were classed as key workers. We did our part of the bargain and when we asked for some financial recognition, we were ignored and told we should be grateful we have a job. Absolute bollocks. The only reason Abellio came to the negotiating table is because they saw the unrest that was stirring the closer the COP26 came and were told by Transport Scotland to sort it out. Well, they didn't sort it out. The payrise should actually be from 2019 but is only backdated to April 2021. The second year rise is tied to conditions that the company can basically renege on. So the second year rise could be taken from us and we'd have no say on that until 2023. The company are also trying to dump the no compulsory redundancy clause the Scottish Government were adamant should be included in the franchise agreement. This would be a threat to some grades and would also lead to posts being closed forever.
We as workers are not being greedy and you will see that with our revised pay claim. We deserve a pay rise, as do everyone else who risked their lives to keep the Country running no matter what industry you are in. Covid has been used by employers as a large stick to beat their employees with. Why would anyone say they are not worth a payrise during Covid?
 

Bald Rick

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I’m not a rep and wasn’t even at ScotRail when the last deal was negotiated so I don’t know what the terms were...

I might be misunderstanding you - if so apologies in advance - but if you don’t know what the terms are then why are you supporting a strike over it?

Personally I would want to know, in detail, the terms of any agreement that I was being told had been broken before deciding to withdraw my labour and lose pay over the matter.

Genuine question. Sorry if I have got the wrong end of the stick.
 

Horizon22

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Whilst Abellio are leaving the scene in the next few months several of the middle and senior managers will not be. Regardless of the background, this won’t be good for industrial relations on a personal level in the medium-term for many. Although of course this does feel like it has a slightly more political flavour to it, so perhaps all can be forgiven internally if the dispute is above them.
 

68000

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I have been an RMT member for the last 20 odd years and this will be my first actual strike. Let me try to explain why this is such a big issue for members.
We all put our lives at risk to provide transport for the people who were classed as key workers. We were classed as key workers. We did our part of the bargain and when we asked for some financial recognition, we were ignored and told we should be grateful we have a job. Absolute bollocks. The only reason Abellio came to the negotiating table is because they saw the unrest that was stirring the closer the COP26 came and were told by Transport Scotland to sort it out. Well, they didn't sort it out. The payrise should actually be from 2019 but is only backdated to April 2021. The second year rise is tied to conditions that the company can basically renege on. So the second year rise could be taken from us and we'd have no say on that until 2023. The company are also trying to dump the no compulsory redundancy clause the Scottish Government were adamant should be included in the franchise agreement. This would be a threat to some grades and would also lead to posts being closed forever.
We as workers are not being greedy and you will see that with our revised pay claim. We deserve a pay rise, as do everyone else who risked their lives to keep the Country running no matter what industry you are in. Covid has been used by employers as a large stick to beat their employees with. Why would anyone say they are not worth a payrise during Covid?

So it has nothing to do with the deal agreed by the drivers?

COVID has bankrupted thousands of companies
 

Starmill

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I have been an RMT member for the last 20 odd years and this will be my first actual strike. Let me try to explain why this is such a big issue for members.
We all put our lives at risk to provide transport for the people who were classed as key workers. We were classed as key workers. We did our part of the bargain and when we asked for some financial recognition, we were ignored and told we should be grateful we have a job. Absolute bollocks. The only reason Abellio came to the negotiating table is because they saw the unrest that was stirring the closer the COP26 came and were told by Transport Scotland to sort it out. Well, they didn't sort it out. The payrise should actually be from 2019 but is only backdated to April 2021. The second year rise is tied to conditions that the company can basically renege on. So the second year rise could be taken from us and we'd have no say on that until 2023. The company are also trying to dump the no compulsory redundancy clause the Scottish Government were adamant should be included in the franchise agreement. This would be a threat to some grades and would also lead to posts being closed forever.
We as workers are not being greedy and you will see that with our revised pay claim. We deserve a pay rise, as do everyone else who risked their lives to keep the Country running no matter what industry you are in. Covid has been used by employers as a large stick to beat their employees with. Why would anyone say they are not worth a payrise during Covid?
I really don't think that anyone has at any point suggested that a pay rise is in some way not deserved, or that it would be in some way undesirable. However, there's significant concern about how it might be funded, the options for doing so appear to all be viewed as even more unacceptable than doing nothing.
 

Bodiddly

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??

You say you think the RMT agreement was null and void and it shoudl match the ASLEF agreement??

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==



the question
This dispute is about a pay rise for general grades and has nothing to do with the drivers, the RDW dispute the guards are currently waging is completely different dispute.
If Transport Scotland want to stop these strikes then they are going to have to deal with both dispute as one.
 

PaulMc7

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I really don't think that anyone has at any point suggested that a pay rise is in some way not deserved, or that it would be in some way undesirable. However, there's significant concern about how it might be funded, the options for doing so appear to all be viewed as even more unacceptable than doing nothing.
That's my main concern to be honest. It's either tax increases or fare prices that will fund it and given that fares are already not worth it for a lot of people it's hardly gonna get people out of cars and onto trains. From where I stay to East Kilbride is a great example. The bus may be 20/25 mins longer but it's £72 a month cheaper last time I checked and that's just one example. I'm in the middle of getting back into employment but train fares in a lot of places had really limited the options I could take. I imagine a lot of people are in the same boat with the cost of living going up
 
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