Passengers denied boarding at Blackpool North?

[AlbertBeale]

I’ve always found it surprising the Euston “experience” survived the Virgin era, as generally their stations tended to be quite relaxed - and indeed few of any had gatelines for many years.

Then again there historically seems to be a bit of an issue with the London-end West Coast staff. Apart from the “coach K” antics, some of their London train managers seem slightly frosty. I’ve had it more than once from northern TMs on there “Where are you going? Euston, oh, if you were going as far as Preston no problem but if you’re going to Euston you’d better date a box, it’ll be a London guard taking over and some of them are really funny about some things”.

"date a box"??

 

[skyhigh]

"date a box"??

It refers to safeguarded staff travel where you get a certain number of days travel free (which you need to put a date in a box on the pass to obtain).

 

[AlbertBeale]

It refers to safeguarded staff travel where you get a certain number of days travel free (which you need to put a date in a box on the pass to obtain).

Ah - thanks.

 

[142blue]

The staff at South Station are much more civilised.

Added bonus, you're nearer the football ground too.

Why people don't use South and Pleasure Beach when they are at that end of the town is something I do not understand

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Get rid of all the current staff top to bottom at BPN, bring in a more customer focused staff then the BPN experiece would be better, otherwise you have two alternatives arrive BPN and leave from Blackpool South then change at Preston or drive up and park somewhere with cheap or free parking.

Bail at Layton, walk to main road and get on a plethora of frequent buses into town or even beyond

 

[Ianno87]

Why people don't use South and Pleasure Beach when they are at that end of the town is something I do not understand

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Oct 2021 ==

Problem is that service is hopelessly low capacity - one two car train per hour.

Plus walking/tram-ing along the promenade past various arcades is part of the fun.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A few years ago I found a way to really annoy the staff at Blackpool North and to experience them at their rudest and most uncooperative. I stayed with friends in Blackpool for a week and dared to use a 7 Day NW Rover which wouldn’t operate the barriers. They treated me as though it was my fault, and they refused to listen when I tried to explain to them that it didn’t work the barriers this morning, yesterday morning or for the past 6 days. They just kept shouting at me to put it through the barrier even when I politely told them it wouldn’t work.

I had that issue at New St (being asked to scan an e-ticket that I had already said wouldn't work) and it occurred to me afterwards why this actually makes sense - they want to see what error code the barrier showed. Though I suppose with an e-ticket there is a chance of it rejecting because it has been refunded, whereas with a paper ticket there isn't.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Do Northern welcome applications from trained prison officers to work as station staff at Blackpool North station, as that specific training seems just the type that Northern would appreciate in the most specialised roles that Northern employ staff in there.

Does anyone remember the knight in "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" who blocked a pathway saying "None shall pass"....

 

[Whistler40145]

Personally, I've never had any issues with travelling in or out of Blackpool North, usually doors open at least 5 minutes before departure, so maybe there's an issue due to staff shortage or a delayed arrival, thus delaying departure.

 

[nanstallon]

My most recent Blackpool North experience, from August, was the one that to me really took the biscuit.

We'd opted to avoid the scrum of the last train, so left around 9PM. There was already a long queue on the station, being locked up as per. A few of the passengers had had a drink or two, but it certainly wasn't an intimidating or even a particularly rowdy atmosphere.

Anyway, somehow or other, a door was left open, and the queue started piling on to the train, a pair of 331s, with 'Manchester' prominently displayed on the external PIS. Again, while there was the usual scrum in the rear carriage, it was all otherwise roughly what you'd expect. This was probably about ten minutes prior to departure.

The attitude of the staff at this point surprised even me. They boarded the train, and started shouting at passengers, informing them they shouldn't have boarded, and that this wasn't their train. I'd checked RTT and could see this was a barefaced lie- but half the passengers in the carriage were asking why the PIS screens so clearly displayed Manchester. In the end, the whole train was cleared off, and everybody was, very slowly, herded back into the building- by this point we were about ten minutes late.

Only at that point did tempers start to fray, with a couple of "wtf" type comments- at which point the BPN staff immediately started threatening to contact the BTP because of passenger "intimidation".

Once everybody was herded back onto the station, we were then let back out the door we came through originally, back onto the same train, and allowed to board. We eventually departed perhaps 25 minutes late.

Farcical...

One way to fill the car and coach parks in Blackpool. If they hate their customers so much, why not shut the railway down and tell the staff to look for jobs as guards in a North Korean labour camp?

I'm tempted to buy a couple of smart coaches, employ some attractive looking staff and send them to charm school, then advertise fares 15p below the standard train fare and watch the money roll in.

 

[Bletchleyite]

One way to fill the car and coach parks in Blackpool. If they hate their customers so much, why not shut the railway down and tell the staff to look for jobs as guards in a North Korean labour camp?

If the staff aren't of benefit the station could be downstaffed to booking office staff plus contract security guards and one gateline attendant, I suppose. Are dispatch staff really needed on short trains?

That nothing has been done about it shows clearly (like the Virgin Coach K thing) that the TOC can't be bothered.

 

[yorkie]

That nothing has been done about it shows clearly (like the Virgin Coach K thing) that the TOC can't be bothered.

It's Northern, so is only to be expected I suppose.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Oct 2021 ==

Personally, I've never had any issues with travelling in or out of Blackpool North...

Been to Blackpool North a couple of times in the last few months and the staff were all very friendly and let me watch the trains for as long as I wanted on both occasions! And they were letting people board the trains with plenty of time to spare. To be honest I think a lot of the hate for the station in 2021 on this forum is just because its become very trendy to hate it. And some of these harrowing-sounding stories of recent trips to Blackpool North station are really quite exaggerated.

I'm sure not all staff are bad but I think you are very lucky if you've been there often and not had an issues.

I've experienced rudeness from the staff there; I was undecided which train to get (the direct York train by myself or a Manchester bound train with other forum members and change there for York) and they were telling me I had to hurry up and make a decision and either get on the first train immediately (and not pause at the platform) or return to the concourse.

This is no exaggeration and people are not doing it "because it's trendy"; anyone who thinks that is very much mistaken and misguided.

The staff I encountered were a disgrace and it is quite right that they are being called out for it.

 

[Horizon22]

London Marylebone has been the same, trains setting off with nobody admitted yet, particularly at the end of the evening peak. Where there are trains double banked in a platform, the second one is not announced until the first one departs.

On this point it is actually physically impossible to board two trains on the same platform at the same time at a London terminal which are not split into A/B sides. Previously words have been had with planners who put splitters on platforms with 5 minutes between departures…

 

[Bletchleyite]

On this point it is actually physically impossible to board two trains on the same platform at the same time at a London terminal which are not split into A/B sides. Previously words have been had with planners who put splitters on platforms with 5 minutes between departures…

You mean I guess that the PIS won't do it? Why not? It's not an overly hard concept to deal with, and Euston used to handle it with signs saying "front train beyond this point". It's sub-optimal but sometimes needs must.

 

[Horizon22]

You mean I guess that the PIS won't do it? Why not? It's not an overly hard concept to deal with, and Euston used to handle it with signs saying "front train beyond this point". It's sub-optimal but sometimes needs must.

Yes the CIS can physically not do it as a platform is hardcoded; so you board another one, you overwrite the previous train. Why? Well the tech is 20+ years old and you’d need a “separate” platform (say P11F and P11R or the A/B concept) in the system to allow an operator to board it.

The best you can do is as you say “board the front X coaches for…” and you can write a notice on the page on the main departure screen for that train & manual announcements where all else fails. But even then, the service will still show on all platform indicators no matter the length. So people always try and smash the door open buttons of the locked set…

As I said operationally it’s tricky for anything less than 5-10 minutes as you need to 1) dispatch the front train, 2) open the doors on rear train, 3) board the train, 4) train comes off screens 1-2 minutes early already - so very short window. As I said, it’s why planners should be highly discouraged from doing this - disruption is more reasonable but still not ideal.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As I said operationally it’s tricky for anything less than 5-10 minutes as you need to 1) dispatch the front train, 2) open the doors on rear train, 3) board the train, 4) train comes off screens 1-2 minutes early already - so very short window.

Or you have both trains open as you sometimes get at e.g. Manc Picc. It's not really hugely different to portion working on non-gangwayed stock. Indeed, a software mod on the PIS to display it using the & notation that portion working uses might be a good option.

As I said, it’s why planners should be highly discouraged from doing this - disruption is more reasonable but still not ideal.

It isn't ideal (because people will always get on the wrong train to some extent) but sometimes there is no realistic alternative, e.g. if both trains are formed of parts of a single train that came in.

 

[LowLevel]

Or you have both trains open as you sometimes get at e.g. Manc Picc. It's not really hugely different to portion working on non-gangwayed stock. Indeed, a software mod on the PIS to display it using the & notation that portion working uses might be a good option.



It isn't ideal (because people will always get on the wrong train to some extent) but sometimes there is no realistic alternative, e.g. if both trains are formed of parts of a single train that came in.

With all the signage in the world having both trains open doesn't work. I am a conscientious person and I get fed up of chasing people off Northern's units hanging around at Liverpool if they've been left open on the blocks. Most won't bother.

People just get on the first open train they come to. I have a lot of experience of this including with all the signage in the world and no assertion otherwise will ever convince me that having two open trains in the same platform on top of each other leaving in short succession is a good idea.

 

[185143]

Or you have both trains open as you sometimes get at e.g. Manc Picc. It's not really hugely different to portion working on non-gangwayed stock. Indeed, a software mod on the PIS to display it using the & notation that portion working uses might be a good option.



It isn't ideal (because people will always get on the wrong train to some extent) but sometimes there is no realistic alternative, e.g. if both trains are formed of parts of a single train that came in.

Then you get people on the wrong train, and it's everyone's fault but theirs. You'd think it'd be obvious that a pacer probably is not the TPE service to Hull (or similar) but no...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Oct 2021 ==

With all the signage in the world having both trains open doesn't work. I am a conscientious person and I get fed up of chasing people off Northern's units hanging around at Liverpool if they've been left open on the blocks. Most won't bother.

People just get on the first open train they come to. I have a lot of experience of this including with all the signage in the world and no assertion otherwise will ever convince me that having two open trains in the same platform on top of each other leaving in short succession is a good idea.

I boarded a well loaded Northern train that had been left open at a terminal station a couple of months ago, around 60% of seats taken in the rear coach (195) and just under half in the front two coaches. Asked if people were travelling on that train or the one infront. All but about 4 were on the wrong train...

 

[trainophile]

I'm a bit confused - BPN being a terminal station, if all departing passengers are being held in the building then how can the train already be full and standing? Do some trains arrive from elsewhere and reverse there en route to somewhere else?

If you are prevented from boarding your departure on an Advance ticket then presumably you're allowed to get the next one, hoping the same thing doesn't happen. However if you have a connection and you miss it due to not being allowed to board your BPN train, would there be any issue getting the next one from your connection point, on a different operator? I'm booked for BPN-Liverpool Lime Street-Birmingham NS in December (or will be when the BPN-LIV Advances are released) and am now concerned about my onward journey if I encounter this stupidity. I already have a timed ticket for LIV-BHM that relies on my planned BPN departure.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you are prevented from boarding your departure on an Advance ticket then presumably you're allowed to get the next one, hoping the same thing doesn't happen. However if you have a connection and you miss it due to not being allowed to board your BPN train, would there be any issue getting the next one from your connection point, on a different operator? I'm booked for BPN-Liverpool Lime Street-Birmingham NS in December (or will be when the BPN-LIV Advances are released) and am now concerned about my onward journey if I encounter this stupidity. I already have a timed ticket for LIV-BHM that relies on my planned BPN departure.

In principle no (and you'd be entitled to Delay Repay for the full journey too) but there are awkward staff in places other than BPN too.

 

[Taunton]

We have got into a detailed discussion about the practicalities of two trains on one platform (cracked by the Southern Railway with many portioned electric trains from London a century ago by the way), but that's a bit different to making sure the passengers have been allowed to board any departure adequately before setting off. Which should surely be covered by procedures to check for this. But I wonder if there are. There are umpteen procedures to have the train depart to the second at scheduled time - where are the ones that ensure the people have been allowed to be on board.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Do Northern welcome applications from trained prison officers to work as station staff at Blackpool North station, as that specific training seems just the type that Northern would appreciate in the most specialised roles that Northern employ staff in there.

Does anyone remember the knight in "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" who blocked a pathway saying "None shall pass"....

They tried ex prison staff...they were found to be too polite and helpful.

 

[colchesterken]

This place has been an issue for years. The operator should get undercover managers to hang around to see what goes on, then report back to bosses to get it sorted
Will GB rail be able to enforce good practice from the contractors?

 

[Bletchleyite]

This place has been an issue for years. The operator should get undercover managers to hang around to see what goes on, then report back to bosses to get it sorted
Will GB rail be able to enforce good practice from the contractors?

Unfortunately there's a thread going on elsewhere showing that London Underground staff don't know their own ticketing rules either, so I think it's just classic Great British Incompetence (none of that foreign "doing it properly" muck), not easy to get rid of that as it's endemic.

 

[seagull]

Unfortunately there's a thread going on elsewhere showing that London Underground staff don't know their own ticketing rules either, so I think it's just classic Great British Incompetence (none of that foreign "doing it properly" muck), not easy to get rid of that as it's endemic.

At the risk of straying somewhat off-topic, yes, I agree: if there's one thing that we seem to excel at in this country, it's at not excelling - and at being inconsistent. The inconsistency in applying policies and processes at work, and the lack of thorough training and monitoring, is why there is so much variety in the experiences at the hands of customer service representatives. Just in this thread alone we see reports of the SAME station ranging from "absolutely horrendous" through to "absolutely great" - and yet these staff all presumably have the same manager. It is indeed endemic, and puzzling.

 

[johntea]

The last time I visited Blackpool North several years ago I had a negative experience with the barrier staff but then a much more positive experience with the ticket office staff

It is quite funny how at the other end of the North you have Bridlington station which is a much more pleasant experience and some beautiful flower displays!

 

[Ken H]

I used to get a Cross Country train from Man Picc. No restrictions on access to the platforms. The doors were locked while the cleaners did their job. We just stood and waited. When they were done someone released the door locks (Mk2 stock). It worked. Trains went from the opposite platform OK. What is the justification for restricting access to the platform at Blackpool North when other stations do quite well with unrestricted access?
If there is a problem with people getting on the wrong train when there are 2 trains in the platform, a sandwich board at the break of train would fix it. But they manage with multi trains on the low numbered platforms at Leeds Ok.

 

[Horizon22]

With all the signage in the world having both trains open doesn't work. I am a conscientious person and I get fed up of chasing people off Northern's units hanging around at Liverpool if they've been left open on the blocks. Most won't bother.

People just get on the first open train they come to. I have a lot of experience of this including with all the signage in the world and no assertion otherwise will ever convince me that having two open trains in the same platform on top of each other leaving in short succession is a good idea.

Indeed. So many different initatives have been trialled to get this right and no matter what happens people end up on wrong trains and passenger feedback isn’t great. The the general approach taken - at London terminals anyway - is the “ best worst” option.

That being said at least there’s actual information and a system in place as opposed to Blackpool N which is just downright passenger unfriendly. Issues are eminently solvable but they seem either incapable or unwilling to even attempt to and revel in the power status quo.

 

[LOL The Irony]

If things need to change at Blackpool North, then customers/passengers must write to the management of Northern, outlining their specific complaints and concerns of the attitude of some staff there.

I don't honestly see what that'll achieve. It's not like these issues haven't been known about by the big wigs for a while now.

What is the justification for restricting access to the platform at Blackpool North when other stations do quite well with unrestricted access?

I recall one of the excuses issues being health & safety related.

 

[Whistler40145]

Maybe I've not experienced the same issues as it could be the time I travel at

 

[paul1609]

Brighton probably handles as many drunk people and they seem to manage with a conventional gateline, as I think someone said above. They do delay putting platform numbers up until the inbound train has arrived to avoid conflicting flows, but that's about it.

Blackpool North deals with about 80% of the passengers at Hastings if you want a South Coast comparison.
Brighton deals with slightly more passengers than Liverpool Lime Street if you need a North Western coastal comparison. Based on Orr Station Useage figures.