ScotRail Industrial Relations issues (including conductor strike action)

[Deltic1961]

Yes, Engineers are staging 24 hour strikes around the time of COP26.

 

[ComUtoR]

So nothing to do with this current Guard dispute?

 

[6Z09]

The article mentions engineering and Unite, not the RMT. Is there another upcoming strike ?

Unite have given notice of several strikes dates during COP26

 

[alangla]

This strike will have a significant impact as trains wont get serviced at the depots or moved from maintenance roads or sheds which will result in cancelled or short formed services.

There’s already dozens each day (I think it was about 60 showing on Journeycheck this morning), I dread to think how much worse it’ll get. I imagine the action short of strike will include an overtime ban so it’ll probably start getting worse right away.

 

[LoogaBarooga]

No pay offer today after all. Talks continuing on Thursday.

 

[snookertam]

Paul Sweeney MSP stated in the parliament today that 20 members of engineering staff at ScotRail have been sent home for refusing to work equipment that they did not have the correct accreditation (or were not passed out) to use.

 

[haggishunter]

No pay offer today after all. Talks continuing on Thursday.

Is this in relation to the ongoing Sunday action or wider talks?

 

[320320]

No pay offer today after all. Talks continuing on Thursday.

Its difficult to see RMT accepting a deal yesterday when ASLEF have talks today. You’d think they want to see what ASLEF are offered and aim for something similar.

Paul Sweeney MSP stated in the parliament today that 20 members of engineering staff at ScotRail have been sent home for refusing to work equipment that they did not have the correct accreditation (or were not passed out) to use.

I saw the clip of that last night, the transport minister could barely hide his contempt for the union and its members. Failure to have this disaster resolved before COP26 should see the minister resign, if not sacked.

 

[snookertam]

Its difficult to see RMT accepting a deal yesterday when ASLEF have talks today. You’d think they want to see what ASLEF are offered and aim for something similar.



I saw the clip of that last night, the transport minister could barely hide his contempt for the union and its members. Failure to have this disaster resolved before COP26 should see the minister resign, if not sacked.

Agreed. I thought his attempt to undermine the integrity of the MSP over his union membership was pathetic. SNP really showing their true colours now (and I’m no fan of the Labour Party).

 

[6Z09]

Agreed. I thought his attempt to undermine the integrity of the MSP over his union membership was pathetic. SNP really showing their true colours now (and I’m no fan of the Labour Party).

Their attempts to keep the current disputes at Scotrail and Caledonian Sleeper at a very long arms length have shown them to be anything but the Socialists they like people to think they are!
None of it bodes well for being government run come April .

 

[Berliner]

Maybe those at Scotrail who think they are hard done by should read the public comments on the BBC article. Not much love for Scotrail or the striking staff it seems:

New pay offer in bid to halt ScotRail strikes

A fresh deal is expected to be put to railway workers after six months of industrial action, the Scottish government says.

www.bbc.co.uk

Why on earth should a completely anonymous comments section on a news website influence how people feel about strike action in their workplace?

There is something wrong in the UK when strikers are seen as the bad guys. Britain is so broken that people would rather see others sacked than for them to a voice in the workplace. It's ridiculous, why is this country like this? It's as if other people don't agree with workers trying to better or simply Maintain their conditions and reacting when they are under threat. If only more workplaces had strong unions, more workers might actually get a better deal for the work they do.

 

[greyman42]

If only more workplaces had strong unions, more workers might actually get a better deal for the work they do.

Or they might just see their companies move the jobs abroad.

 

[al78]

Why on earth should a completely anonymous comments section on a news website influence how people feel about strike action in their workplace?

There is something wrong in the UK when strikers are seen as the bad guys. Britain is so broken that people would rather see others sacked than for them to a voice in the workplace. It's ridiculous, why is this country like this? It's as if other people don't agree with workers trying to better or simply Maintain their conditions and reacting when they are under threat. If only more workplaces had strong unions, more workers might actually get a better deal for the work they do.

I can't have it (pay rise) therefore no-one else should.

Comments sections on news websites (and many forums) are full of the ignorant and the idiotic, so it is best not to take them too seriously.

Another element when it comes to public services is that if employees get pay rises, someone has to pay for that, and it is nearly always the pubic that pay, with the railway either through fare increases, tax increases, or something else is cut to compensate for the extra cost. There also seems to be a tendency in the UK for people to assume someone elses job is easy even though they have no clue what it involves and the responsibility associated with the job, which is probably a way of trying to justify their opinion that they should suck it up and stop causing disruption through striking.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Oct 2021 ==

Or they might just see their companies move the jobs abroad.

If it were as simple as that companies would have done it by now, given labour is already cheaper overseas without employees demanding pay rises, at least partly because the cost of living in the UK is high.

 

[greyman42]

If it were as simple as that companies would have done it by now, given labour is already cheaper overseas without employees demanding pay rises, at least partly because the cost of living in the UK is high.

I think most unions are a lot more pragmatic when negotiating with management than the RMT.

 

[6Z09]

Or they might just see their companies move the jobs abroad.

Wouldn't really work moving the Scottish rail network to another country!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Oct 2021 ==

Why on earth should a completely anonymous comments section on a news website influence how people feel about strike action in their workplace?

There is something wrong in the UK when strikers are seen as the bad guys. Britain is so broken that people would rather see others sacked than for them to a voice in the workplace. It's ridiculous, why is this country like this? It's as if other people don't agree with workers trying to better or simply Maintain their conditions and reacting when they are under threat. If only more workplaces had strong unions, more workers might actually get a better deal for the work they do.

Totally agree, it's shameful the comments on pages such as this, supposed rail industry supporters slating workers and Unions!
Brexit Britain is a pretty nasty place!

 

[greyman42]

Wouldn't really work moving the Scottish rail network to another country!

Obviously not but the suggestion that unions in other industries should follow the example set by the RMT would be detrimental to these British jobs.

 

[43066]

Obviously not but the suggestion that unions in other industries should follow the example set by the RMT would be detrimental to these British jobs.

There’s a good argument that, had unions remained stronger in the U.K., there might have been more opposition to the rise of concepts such as zero hour contracts and exploitative practices such as de facto workers being classed as de jure self employed. It would also be nice to see more emphasis on quality training and upskilling of the U.K. workforce, to become more internationally competitive on that basis. An interesting subject, but perhaps off topic too say much more on this thread!

 

[ainsworth74]

An interesting subject, but perhaps off topic too say much more on this thread!

Yes, we've widened the scope of this thread to cover several disputes I'm not sure it can cope with a wider discussion of the economy and the role (or otherwise) of Union activity within that and the macro economic factors it may or may not have been able to prevent!

Fascinating topic but I think time to take that to a new thread

 

[the sniper]

I think most unions are a lot more pragmatic when negotiating with management than the RMT.

By which you mean, most modern unions will largely just accept what they're given and not make a fuss, which is acceptable to the kind of people on here who hate the RMT.

 

[6Z09]

By which you mean, most modern unions will largely just accept what they're given and not make a fuss, which is acceptable to the kind of people on here who hate the RMT.

The anti RMT rhetoric is shocking, Trade Unions are there to protect the interests of members, and are needed more now than ever before, members vote to take action, Union Leaders don't dictate to anybody contrary to what some on here seem to think!
The rail industry is thankfully still a well unionised workplace, and long may that continue.
Instead of attacking the rail unions it would suit other industries to get themselves organised and improve their own conditions.

 

[InOban]

By which you mean, most modern unions will largely just accept what they're given and not make a fuss, which is acceptable to the kind of people on here who hate the RMT.

No. Most unions realise that the interests of both sides largely coincide - a thriving business in which staff at all grades have secure careers.

 

[the sniper]

No. Most unions realise that the interests of both sides largely coincide - a thriving business in which staff at all grades have secure careers.

Accepting what you're given will always be in the best interests of a business, thriving or not.

 

[InOban]

Not necessarily. Operating with a disgruntled staff with high turnover isn't. One of scotrail's problems has been drivers in particular moving to other TOCs.

 

[the sniper]

Not necessarily. Operating with a disgruntled staff with high turnover isn't. One of scotrail's problems has been drivers in particular moving to other TOCs.

Glad we can agree that unions are good for the industry.

 

[Starmill]

The main role of trade unions is political these days (which is the reason I'm in one). Most workers in trade unions are in the public sector as a result. That is to say that a key reason why they can't use industrial action to significantly increase pay growth us because the roles are publicly funded. They can no more increase pay through direct action than they can increase universal credit, an equally noble objective. Politics is able to make such changes however.

 

[class ep-09]

Or they might just see their companies move the jobs abroad.

As if lack of unions stopped any company moving abroad anyway .

Example, where companies can and work with unions , we can see Germany .

Good wages and conditions , happy workforce and massive size of production .

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Oct 2021 ==

Why on earth should a completely anonymous comments section on a news website influence how people feel about strike action in their workplace?

There is something wrong in the UK when strikers are seen as the bad guys. Britain is so broken that people would rather see others sacked than for them to a voice in the workplace. It's ridiculous, why is this country like this? It's as if other people don't agree with workers trying to better or simply Maintain their conditions and reacting when they are under threat. If only more workplaces had strong unions, more workers might actually get a better deal for the work they do.

Exactly

 

[Goldfish62]

Example, where companies can and work with unions , we can see Germany .

Good wages and conditions , happy workforce and massive size of production .

Apart from on the railways, where DB drivers don't seem to be too happy judging by the recent strikes.

 

[Berliner]

Apart from on the railways, where DB drivers don't seem to be too happy judging by the recent strikes.

These strikes didn't last anything like as long as the disputes we see here because they actually sit down and hammer out a deal. A very good deal too, they got a pay rise and 2 Covid bonus payments. It was very much worth their while going on strike as they have benefited hugely. Why is it that railway workers in Germany can get such pay rises yet in the UK they are told Covid means they can't? Surely German trains finances have also suffered?

 

[Watershed]

These strikes didn't last anything like as long as the disputes we see here because they actually sit down and hammer out a deal. A very good deal too, they got a pay rise and 2 Covid bonus payments. It was very much worth their while going on strike as they have benefited hugely. Why is it that railway workers in Germany can get such pay rises yet in the UK they are told Covid means they can't? Surely German trains finances have also suffered?

Because they have a lot more leverage (more people rely on trains there). And because public transport is seen as a public good in Germany, not a drain on finances as it's seen here.

If you held a referendum in the UK, asking voters whether the railway should stop being subsidised so the government can spend £15bn extra a year on the NHS, I shudder to think of the outcome.

 

[Starmill]

These strikes didn't last anything like as long as the disputes we see here because they actually sit down and hammer out a deal. A very good deal too, they got a pay rise and 2 Covid bonus payments. It was very much worth their while going on strike as they have benefited hugely. Why is it that railway workers in Germany can get such pay rises yet in the UK they are told Covid means they can't? Surely German trains finances have also suffered?

A larger proportion of the German public will use the railway, in one form or another, the German public are more tolerant of spending public money in general, and their electoral system produces governments more representative of the true share of people that way inclined, and the German government is more inclined to spend on strategic objectives like decarbonisation than we are.