26-30 railcard discount for Yarmouth (IoW)

[colinz]

I plan to book an off peak day return ticket (CDR) this weekend from Southampton Central (SOU) to Yarmouth IoW (YMH) with a 26-30 railcard. This journey involves changing trains at Brockenhurst and then switch to Wightlink ferry at Lymington Pier. While booking the ticket, I was confused by the fare system.

It seems like the discount rate for this journey is not as much as 34%. More specifically, a full fare SOU-YMH CDR is £28, thus 28 * 66% = 18.48, while a 26-30 railcard discounted fare SOU-YMH CDR is £21.10. However, other railcards, such as 16-25, Network and two-together, do not have such problem and all have a correct fare of £18.65.

I searched for more journeys and found that the issue is in CDR and SDR fares to YMH priced by SWR, GTR and Chiltern, while other tickets, such as anytime, super off peak (evening, Sunday) and all Single ones, as well as fares priced by GWR and XC, do not have this problem, examples given below:


Could anyone kindly help shed some light here please?

 

[Haywain]

I plan to book an off peak day return ticket (CDR) this weekend from Southampton Central (SOU) to Yarmouth IoW (YMH) with a 26-30 railcard. This journey involves changing trains at Brockenhurst and then switch to Wightlink ferry at Lymington Pier. While booking the ticket, I was confused by the fare system.

It seems like the discount rate for this journey is not as much as 34%. More specifically, a full fare SOU-YMH CDR is £28, thus 28 * 66% = 18.48, while a 26-30 railcard discounted fare SOU-YMH CDR is £21.10. However, other railcards, such as 16-25, Network and two-together, do not have such problem and all have a correct fare of £18.65.

I searched for more journeys and found that the issue is in CDR and SDR fares to YMH priced by SWR, GTR and Chiltern, while other tickets, such as anytime, super off peak (evening, Sunday) and all Single ones, as well as fares priced by GWR and XC, do not have this problem, examples given below:

View attachment 103516
Could anyone kindly help shed some light here please?

Yep. Some journeys involving a non-rail leg do not get the full discount as different discounts (if any) apply to the non-rail section.

 

[A Challenge]

Yep. Some journeys involving a non-rail leg do not get the full discount as different discounts (if any) apply to the non-rail section.

How come this is affected by the type of the ticket as to whether it gets full discount or not (I could understand if they all differed by different percentages due to differences in the add-on but for some not to change at all while some do change is odd)?

 

[colinz]

Yep. Some journeys involving a non-rail leg do not get the full discount as different discounts (if any) apply to the non-rail section.

I do understand this. However, as I mentioned, standard 34% discount does apply to all other types of railcards. Moreover, the 26-30 railcard website explicitly mentioned that this journey is eligible for 1/3 off, which confuses me.

Where and when can I use my Railcard?​

Your 26-30 Railcard gets you 1/3 off most off-peak rail fares to travel across Great Britain. There are tickets, time restrictions and minimum fares, so check below to help you plan:

Save on these types of tickets​ Standard Anytime and Anytime Day Singles and Returns Standard Off-Peak and Off-Peak Day Singles and Returns Standard Super Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak Day Singles and Returns Standard and First Class Advance* Most Rail Rovers fares Gatwick Express, Stansted Express and Heathrow Express Oyster Off-Peak pay as you go Daily Price Cap and Off-Peak pay as you go single fares for journeys on National Rail, London Underground and Docklands Light Railway Anytime Day Travelcard Zones 1-9 when bought as part of ticket to London from outside the London Zones area (Subject to minimum fare of £19.60) PLUSBUS tickets Some rail/sea journeys with Wightlink and Red Funnel Ferries to stations on the Isle of Wight, Hovertravel services to and from Ryde Hoverport, and Stena Line ferries to Republic of Ireland**

*These tickets need to be booked before you travel.

**Discount is only available on tickets as part of a journey from/to a National Rail station and on combined rail/sea journeys from/to Ryde Hoverport.

 

[danm14]

Unless it has changed recently, 26-30 Railcards are clearly marked as valid with both 16-25 and 26-30 discount tickets.

Would it be permitted in this situation to simply purchase the cheaper 16-25 Railcard discounted ticket? (I see this as quite a different situation to doing this to obtain the minimum fare exemption in July/August or a discount with Caledonian Sleeper, both of which are explicitly unavailable to 26-30 Railcard holders)

I understand that this additional validity was intended for use where ticket retailing systems had not been updated for the new Railcard, but I can't see anything in the terms and conditions restricting its use to such circumstances.

 

[paul1609]

How come this is affected by the type of the ticket as to whether it gets full discount or not (I could understand if they all differed by different percentages due to differences in the add-on but for some not to change at all while some do change is odd)?

It's because for some ticket types the railcard discounted fares to local stations would otherwise be cheaper than the ship only fares. So frequent users would just buy the rail ticket even though they only use the ferry.

 

[Haywain]

Moreover, the 26-30 railcard website explicitly mentioned that this journey is eligible for 1/3 off, which confuses me.

The railcard website mentions discounts are applicable to *some* journeys with Wightlink, and it is those between Portsmouth Harbour and Ryde Pier Head that get a 26-30 discount. There is no 26-30 discount on the Yarmouth ferry.

 

[colinz]

It's because for some ticket types the railcard discounted fares to local stations would otherwise be cheaper than the ship only fares. So frequent users would just buy the rail ticket even though they only use the ferry.

But then wouldn’t it be rather illogic to raise the fare for 26-30 railcard holders, while giving Network railcard holders the full discount? The former is age-restricted and costs more to buy than the latter.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Oct 2021 ==

Unless it has changed recently, 26-30 Railcards are clearly marked as valid with both 16-25 and 26-30 discount tickets.

Would it be permitted in this situation to simply purchase the cheaper 16-25 Railcard discounted ticket? (I see this as quite a different situation to doing this to obtain the minimum fare exemption in July/August or a discount with Caledonian Sleeper, both of which are explicitly unavailable to 26-30 Railcard holders)

I understand that this additional validity was intended for use where ticket retailing systems had not been updated for the new Railcard, but I can't see anything in the terms and conditions restricting its use to such circumstances.

Thanks, this does sound like a workaround. However, my main concern is that the 26-30 price might be deliberately set higher than other railcards for some reason, for which I want discussion here.
Moreover, I can’t find anywhere that states the interchangeablity you mention, neither from the 26-30 railcard T&Cs nor FAQs. It would therefore be hard to convince a ticket inspector, especially someone from the ferry company side.

 

[Watershed]

Thanks, this does sound like a workaround. However, my main concern is that the 26-30 price might be deliberately set higher than other railcards for some reason, for which I want discussion here.
Moreover, I can’t find anywhere that states the interchangeablity you mention, neither from the 26-30 railcard T&Cs nor FAQs. It would therefore be hard to convince a ticket inspector, especially someone from the ferry company side.

It certainly was the case when 26-30 Railcards were first introduced, but I doubt it is the case anymore unless you can find something in the app, website or terms that says so.

26-30 Railcards do differ subtly from 16-25 Railcards; they don't give a discount on Caledonian Sleeper, for example. So it's not beyond the realms of possibility that this difference is intentional.

 

[Haywain]

However, my main concern is that the 26-30 price might be deliberately set higher than other railcards for some reason, for which I want discussion here.

As I stated above, there is no 26-30 discount on the Yarmouth ferry.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Oct 2021 ==

So it's not beyond the realms of possibility that this difference is intentional.

It is, very deliberate.

 

[paul1609]

But then wouldn’t it be rather illogic to raise the fare for 26-30 railcard holders, while giving Network railcard holders the full discount? The former is age-restricted and costs more to buy than the latter.

I suspect that the Wightlink revenue manager will know the answer but I guess its to do with the 26-30 railcard offering a discount before 10.00 Mon - Fri which the network card doesn't.

 

[221129]

Would it be permitted in this situation to simply purchase the cheaper 16-25 Railcard discounted ticket?

No. It would quite likely be classed as fraud.

 

[CyrusWuff]

It definitely appears to be deliberate, given the relevant Knowledgebase pages show a 26-30 discount as being available for the other four options for crossing the Solent (i.e. Red Funnel from Southampton Town Quay to East Cowes, Wightlink from Portsmouth Harbour to Ryde, RedJet from Southampton Town Quay to West Cowes and Hovertravel from Southsea Hoverport to Ryde).

As for the suggestion of buying a 16-25 discounted ticket instead, that was only a temporary workaround when the 26-30 Railcard was first introduced, to reflect the fact that not all Ticket Issuing Systems had been updated to issue tickets with a 26-30 discount. Given that was back in January 2019, I wouldn't suggest trying it now.

 

[colinz]

I finally managed to get a response from SWR. They confirmed that the discount rate for 26-30 railcard is deliberately set to 25%, because of the ferry leg. They also confirmed that this special arrangement is only for 26-30 railcard and not for any other railcards. So end of the story. Thanks for all your discussions.