SWR Class 458 to be retained

[Goldfish62]

Congratulations, not everyone did, does or reads whole threads. Purely added for clarification/additional information.

No worries.

 

[southern442]

Is there any possibility of this refurb happening before the 701s enter traffic?

 

[DorkingMain]

Is there any possibility of this refurb happening before the 701s enter traffic?

Original plan was that the extended lease on the 707s would mean they would be last to depart, after the 458s and then 455s. Because the 701 introduction has taken so long, that 707 lease is now expiring, and a pair of 707 goes to SE periodically.

as a result, any capacity generated by the reduced timetable is likely to be cancelled out by losing an increasing number of 707s. Therefore it seems unlikely they'll be able to release many 458s for refurbishment, if any, before at least some 701s are running.

Short answer: I would guess probably not.

 

[Juniper Driver]

How many class 458's are there not in service . Not seen 06 since april.

458535 has been in Clapham Yard 46 Road for what seems like weeks.

 

[Goldfish62]

Original plan was that the extended lease on the 707s would mean they would be last to depart, after the 458s and then 455s. Because the 701 introduction has taken so long, that 707 lease is now expiring, and a pair of 707 goes to SE periodically.

as a result, any capacity generated by the reduced timetable is likely to be cancelled out by losing an increasing number of 707s. Therefore it seems unlikely they'll be able to release many 458s for refurbishment, if any, before at least some 701s are running.

Short answer: I would guess probably not.

Things may have moved on, but it's been previously said that once the first eight 707s move, no more will until next year.

Also there was a comment from someone on FB who came across as speaking with some knowledge that the first 458s will go off for refurbishment next month.

We will shall have to wait and see in both respects.

 

[Bigfoot]

458535 has been in Clapham Yard 46 Road for what seems like weeks.

Yeah, that is very broken apparently.

 

[Goldfish62]

Yeah, that is very broken apparently.

Wonder if it'll ever see service again given that only 28 units are being refurbished and this is one of the non-standard former 460s.

 

[43102EMR]

Wonder if it'll ever see service again given that only 28 units are being refurbished and this is one of the non-standard former 460s.

Can I just ask why only 28 are being refurbished? Makes more sense to refurbish the whole fleet of 36 rather than leave 8 sets redundant (or at least all 30 of the original 458/0s)…

 

[Journeyman]

Can I just ask why only 28 are being refurbished? Makes more sense to refurbish the whole fleet of 36 rather than leave 8 sets redundant (or at least all 30 of the original 458/0s)…

Because they only need 28.

 

[swt_passenger]

Can I just ask why only 28 are being refurbished? Makes more sense to refurbish the whole fleet of 36 rather than leave 8 sets redundant (or at least all 30 of the original 458/0s)…

They‘re a direct replacement for 18 x 442s ie 9 full length sets, so the similar capacity would be achieved with 27 x 458s. The 28th seems to be a bonus…

 

[D365]

Can I just ask why only 28 are being refurbished? Makes more sense to refurbish the whole fleet of 36 rather than leave 8 sets redundant (or at least all 30 of the original 458/0s)…

Not sure what you mean by ”makes sense”. Porterbrook and SWR agreed for 28 units to be refurbished, therefore, that is how many are being done.

 

[43096]

Wonder if it'll ever see service again given that only 28 units are being refurbished and this is one of the non-standard former 460s.

Given the chronically late delivery of the 701s, they might need the eight 458s not needed for the Portsmouth Direct fleet to cover for the 701s and the 707s going to South Eastern.

 

[Goldfish62]

Can I just ask why only 28 are being refurbished? Makes more sense to refurbish the whole fleet of 36 rather than leave 8 sets redundant (or at least all 30 of the original 458/0s)…

Why would you refurbish 36 (or 30) units if you only needed 28 with the eight extras being unlikely to be wanted by anyone else? Just cannibalise the remaining eight and scrap them. They've had over 20 years service so not too much of a waste.

 

[spark001uk]

Going by the woefully late 701 programme, and the ongoing 707 departures, I'd say they'll need all the 458s they can get for the time being, refurbed or not.

 

[Snow1964]

Why would you refurbish 36 (or 30) units if you only needed 28 with the eight extras being unlikely to be wanted by anyone else? Just cannibalise the remaining eight and scrap them. They've had over 20 years service so not too much of a waste.

A more sensible approach is to refurbish and use 28, but take more so the extras can be stripped for bogies, parts etc.

If only take 28 and don’t put any claim (or buy) other 8 then the owner (leaseco) could keep them for someone else, and not allow any parts to be taken. Also they would expect any broken ones to be fixed when returned

 

[swt_passenger]

A more sensible approach is to refurbish and use 28, but take more so the extras can be stripped for bogies, parts etc.

If only take 28 and don’t put any claim (or buy) other 8 then the owner (leaseco) could keep them for someone else, and not allow any parts to be taken. Also they would expect any broken ones to be fixed when returned

With them being reduced from 5 to 4 cars there’s going to be a fair amount of spare trailer parts around whatever…

 

[Goldfish62]

A more sensible approach is to refurbish and use 28, but take more so the extras can be stripped for bogies, parts etc.

If only take 28 and don’t put any claim (or buy) other 8 then the owner (leaseco) could keep them for someone else, and not allow any parts to be taken. Also they would expect any broken ones to be fixed when returned

Well, it'll be up to the DfT what happens to them.

 

[43102EMR]

With them being reduced from 5 to 4 cars there’s going to be a fair amount of spare trailer parts around whatever…

Not to mention the spares from cannibalising the 442s…

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Can I just ask why only 28 are being refurbished? Makes more sense to refurbish the whole fleet of 36 rather than leave 8 sets redundant (or at least all 30 of the original 458/0s)…

Generally you only buy/lease what you need!

 

[Energy]

Not to mention the spares from cannibalising the 442s…

I doubt they share a lot, traction equipment is definitely different as will, I imagine, the rest of the train.

 

[Helvellyn]

The only reason to take more than 28 would be if they had a use for them. Given not all depots will sign them that use needs to be self-contained. The only routes I could think of would be Lymington branch and Portsmouth-Southampton.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The only reason to take more than 28 would be if they had a use for them. Given not all depots will sign them that use needs to be self-contained. The only routes I could think of would be Lymington branch and Portsmouth-Southampton.

And even then, the interior requirements for the Pompey fasts are quite different from the more "local" routes you mention. Either the first class area will get trashed when a unit is on locals, or you have a subfleet with an entirely different more "metro" set up... which won't go down so well when one turns up on a mainline service.

 

[Helvellyn]

And even then, the interior requirements for the Pompey fasts are quite different from the more "local" routes you mention. Either the first class area will get trashed when a unit is on locals, or you have a subfleet with an entirely different more "metro" set up... which won't go down so well when one turns up on a mainline service.

Well there used to be the odd Southampton-Portsmouth that was 444 operated in the past! I don't think a 458 would be a bad option if required - same door spacing as a 450, and first class behind each cab (also like a 450) so it would just be 2+2 versus 3+2 searing in Standard that would be different.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Yeah, that is very broken apparently.

Thanks.I was worried.

 

[southern442]

Well there used to be the odd Southampton-Portsmouth that was 444 operated in the past! I don't think a 458 would be a bad option if required - same door spacing as a 450, and first class behind each cab (also like a 450) so it would just be 2+2 versus 3+2 searing in Standard that would be different.

Plus, the Southampton local diesel service is a 158 with a very high-spec intercity layout and end doors - a bit of a nightmare at busy times but we put up with it as it's lovely any other time. If 458s were used vice 450s on Solent locals, they'd still be very easy to board and alight from due to the door arrangement, the only real loss would be 2+2 instead of 2+3, and even then I've never seen a 450 hugely full on a Pompey-Soton, and it would certainly be more comfy...

 

[Siemens Staines]

Does anyone have an update on those units which are long term out of use?

I may be wrong and stand to be corrected, but I think that the following 8 units have not worked within the last month;

458501,504,506,512,514,515,529,535

And some of these for a lot longer than a month. Has 458504 ever worked again since its derailment near Clapham Yard on 30.11.20?

Thank you for any assistance answering this question

 

[43096]

Does anyone have an update on those units which are long term out of use?

I may be wrong and stand to be corrected, but I think that the following 8 units have not worked within the last month;

458501,504,506,512,514,515,529,535

And some of these for a lot longer than a month. Has 458504 ever worked again since its derailment near Clapham Yard on 30.11.20?

Thank you for any assistance answering this question

504/506/514/515 are the four I haven't had this year. I think you may be right with 504, I haven't even seen it this year. 535 has been dumped in Clapham Yard for months.

I'm surprised there's not been an effort to get on top of the situation with these sets, given the ever-decreasing number of 707s.

 

[Goldfish62]

I'm surprised there's not been an effort to get on top of the situation with these sets, given the ever-decreasing number of 707s.

Yes as I understand things are getting ever tighter with rolling stock availability as the 707s gradually disappear.

 

[Siemens Staines]

504/506/514/515 are the four I haven't had this year. I think you may be right with 504, I haven't even seen it this year. 535 has been dumped in Clapham Yard for months.

I'm surprised there's not been an effort to get on top of the situation with these sets, given the ever-decreasing number of 707s.

504/506/512/514 are the four I that haven't had this year although lockdown meant that I didn't travel on any of them, nor see many of them, until April. 515 was active in late May / early June but it seems to have been out of use since then.

 

[444045]

I have been reliably informed that 458507 & 458517 have come off lease and will be the 1st units to go for reconversation at Widnes.