• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

East Midlands Railway short formed services

Status
Not open for further replies.

Killingworth

Established Member
Joined
30 May 2018
Messages
6,500
Location
Sheffield
Happens every Saturday, but EMR keep putting 2 coaches on it!

The irony is that on Saturday mornings a passenger between Sheffield and Manchester will pay more on the overloaded 2 car EMR services than on a relatively comfortable 6 coach TPE half an hour later or earlier. Yet still people must be paying. Take an extra 25 minutes on a well filled 3 coach Northern (that may become less crowded after Grindleford) and it's half the price, if not better.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
44,416
Location
Yorks
The irony is that on Saturday mornings a passenger between Sheffield and Manchester will pay more on the overloaded 2 car EMR services than on a relatively comfortable 6 coach TPE half an hour later or earlier. Yet still people must be paying. Take an extra 25 minutes on a well filled 3 coach Northern (that may become less crowded after Grindleford) and it's half the price, if not better.
Sadly railway passengers don't have perfect knowledge on such matters.

(That that we have a good grasp on things is generally earned through experience)
 

Llandudno

Established Member
Joined
25 Dec 2014
Messages
2,753
Location
Matlock
The irony is that on Saturday mornings a passenger between Sheffield and Manchester will pay more on the overloaded 2 car EMR services than on a relatively comfortable 6 coach TPE half an hour later or earlier. Yet still people must be paying. Take an extra 25 minutes on a well filled 3 coach Northern (that may become less crowded after Grindleford) and it's half the price, if not better.
Problem is the 2 car train is normally full and standing leaving Chesterfield and not many leisure passengers alight at Sheffield, most continue to Manchester or Liverpool.
 

ChrisC

Established Member
Joined
7 Oct 2018
Messages
2,267
Location
Nottinghamshire
It looks like the Robin Hood Line had a real bad day today for late running. There’s hardly been a train on time all day with some services running in excess of 30 minutes late. National Rail App gives the reason as passengers causing a disturbance. No excuse for passengers doing this but perhaps related to the severe overcrowding every Saturday afternoon with only an hourly 2 car train running. Before covid Saturday afternoon trains were always full and standing even with 2tph.
 

Jozhua

Established Member
Joined
6 Jan 2019
Messages
1,891
The issue is that class 170s were designed to cruise along with a max speed of 100mph, and were acquired for "Sprinter Express" type work - ie one-up from a 90mph class 158. 158s are now 30 years old and 150s and 156s are rocking up to 35 years old. So the original suburban start-stop workhorses have been scrapped and a BR style cascade has happened to some TOCs. Those nice comfy 170s with CET and a good top speed have been displaced onto lesser duties including suburban work which they weren't really designed for.

Now if the owning Roscos found some spare cash down the back of their boardroom sofa the suburban 170s could have a new drive train better suited to their new(ish) role.
I'm sure the train landlords could find some money somewhere to do such a thing!

A drivetrain probably isn't cheap, but considering this is going to be the future of these units for the next 20 years, it would very well be worth it.
Sadly railway passengers don't have perfect knowledge on such matters.

(That that we have a good grasp on things is generally earned through experience)
My learned experience in 1st/2nd year of uni was to simply avoid travelling back as much as possible...
It looks like the Robin Hood Line had a real bad day today for late running. There’s hardly been a train on time all day with some services running in excess of 30 minutes late. National Rail App gives the reason as passengers causing a disturbance. No excuse for passengers doing this but perhaps related to the severe overcrowding every Saturday afternoon with only an hourly 2 car train running. Before covid Saturday afternoon trains were always full and standing even with 2tph.
Sounds like EMR making excuses!
 

Trainfan2019

Member
Joined
9 Aug 2019
Messages
530
Looks like the Derby to Matlock are 4 carriages this evening/tonight instead of 2 carriages according to the EMR app. Don't think I've seen this before.
 

Skymonster

Established Member
Joined
7 Feb 2012
Messages
2,068
Looks like the Derby to Matlock are 4 carriages this evening/tonight instead of 2 carriages according to the EMR app. Don't think I've seen this before.
According to the website it was four all day - no idea why but presumably something on in Matlock. Amazing how EMR can find units sometimes but not others (no doubt someone will say irs because of the Sunday strikes reducing the need elsewhere - don’t even get me started on EMR’s dismal failure to get that sorted out after months…)
 

Dr Hoo

Established Member
Joined
10 Nov 2015
Messages
5,704
Location
Hope Valley
Isn't it Matlock Bath 'river illuminations' at the moment? Always led to rammed four-cars in previous (normal) years.
 

tom1649

Member
Joined
5 Jul 2010
Messages
990
Yep, the 4 cars on the Matlock branch is due to the illuminations at Matlock Bath. It's not uncommon to see a Meridian on the branch at some point.
 

LowLevel

Established Member
Joined
26 Oct 2013
Messages
8,927
Yep, the 4 cars on the Matlock branch is due to the illuminations at Matlock Bath. It's not uncommon to see a Meridian on the branch at some point.
I think it's happened about twice, it really is quite uncommon. Once when the Queen went up there on a service train and I think once during shortages. If they get sent anywhere it's usually Crewe, but even that less so now those trains run through to Newark.
 

Kite159

Veteran Member
Joined
27 Jan 2014
Messages
22,854
Location
West of Andover
From what I heard, the guard of that said services chucked off any standing pax for whatever reason. This subsequently caused the following service(s) to be busier.

Great customer service from EMR...

Best hope that guard never has to travel on London Overground/Underground as they might have a heart attack at how many people are standing.
 

Tomnick

Established Member
Joined
10 Jun 2005
Messages
5,933
Great customer service from EMR...

Best hope that guard never has to travel on London Overground/Underground as they might have a heart attack at how many people are standing.
I (driver) did exactly the same recently. Not all standing passengers, but everyone in the front and rear vestibules. In an emergency, that's my escape route, and if either the guard or I need to get down onto the line, we need to be safely open the external door in the vestibule, and then actually get to it, without passengers falling out. Our top priority as traincrew is safety.
 

liamf656

Established Member
Joined
2 Aug 2020
Messages
1,735
Location
Derby
I thought Meridians/Voyagers were banned from the Matlock line, or was it another type of InterCity stock (e.g. HSTs)?
Without wishing to go too off topic, yes, 222s are banned to Matlock and the only "Intercity" stock that went that way were the MML 170s when the branch had a direct service to London. One of the reasons that service was withdrawn was because the 222s couldn't go up the branch. As for HSTs, only a single one (as far as I know) has gone up there as part of a special event with Peak Rail

During the illuminations we'll be seeing 3 car 170s and double sprinters at the busiest times
 

Pumbaa

Established Member
Joined
19 Feb 2008
Messages
5,022
I think it’s a bridge that is the restriction. Ok for special moves at low speed with a check afterwards, not so fine for regular use.
 

LowLevel

Established Member
Joined
26 Oct 2013
Messages
8,927
Without wishing to go too off topic, yes, 222s are banned to Matlock and the only "Intercity" stock that went that way were the MML 170s when the branch had a direct service to London. One of the reasons that service was withdrawn was because the 222s couldn't go up the branch. As for HSTs, only a single one (as far as I know) has gone up there as part of a special event with Peak Rail

During the illuminations we'll be seeing 3 car 170s and double sprinters at the busiest times

Not any more, the bridge was repaired around 10 years ago and 222s can and have run to Matlock. They just tend not to. As I said before one occasion was when the Queen went up there (evidently they felt a pair of 153s wasn't sufficient :lol: ) and another was a desperation move due to shortages.

It's less common now for the 222s to sub on local work as the local link at Derby on the drivers side no longer go to London and the fleet is more stretched following the demise of the HSTs.
 

Bikeman78

Established Member
Joined
26 Apr 2018
Messages
6,196
I (driver) did exactly the same recently. Not all standing passengers, but everyone in the front and rear vestibules. In an emergency, that's my escape route, and if either the guard or I need to get down onto the line, we need to be safely open the external door in the vestibule, and then actually get to it, without passengers falling out. Our top priority as traincrew is safety.
Lucky you didn't work Pacers on the Cardiff Valleys then. Sometimes the guard could not get back to the cab after shutting the doors!
 

bunnahabhain

Established Member
Joined
8 Jun 2005
Messages
2,277
Without wishing to go too off topic, yes, 222s are banned to Matlock and the only "Intercity" stock that went that way were the MML 170s when the branch had a direct service to London. One of the reasons that service was withdrawn was because the 222s couldn't go up the branch. As for HSTs, only a single one (as far as I know) has gone up there as part of a special event with Peak Rail

During the illuminations we'll be seeing 3 car 170s and double sprinters at the busiest times

They are very definitely permitted up there.

DMU Traction permitted: 121, 150, 153, 155, 156, 158, 159, 170, 222
EMU Traction permitted: 325 (hauled, pantograph lowered)
Coaching stock permitted: Mk1, Mk2, Mk3 (unmodified, no DVTs)
Locos permitted: 08, 09, 20, 31, 33, 37, 43, 47, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 66, 68, 73, 88, 97/3
 

Foxcover

Member
Joined
14 Nov 2015
Messages
200
Just a single 158 on the 0742 Liverpool-Norwich this Saturday morning, one of the diagrams EMR highlight as being very busy on their website.

Interestingly the EMR advance ticket price for this specific service (Liverpool to Manchester) almost halved between last night and this morning, which is odd demand management…
 
Last edited:

dk1

Veteran Member
Joined
2 Oct 2009
Messages
19,898
Location
East Anglia
Just a single 158 on the 0843 Liverpool-Norwich this Saturday morning, one of the diagrams EMR highlight as being very busy on their website.

Interestingly the EMR advance ticket price for this specific service (Liverpool to Manchester) almost halved between last night and this morning, which is odd demand management…
I can’t see an 08:43 Liverpool-Norwich. Do you mean Manchester?
 

Foxcover

Member
Joined
14 Nov 2015
Messages
200
Sorry, 0742 from Liverpool- Norwich. Don’t know what happened with my typing there! Thanks- have edited
 

aoa123

Member
Joined
6 May 2021
Messages
13
Location
UK
Just standing at sheff station looking at the 9.43 to Liverpool Lime street which is 7 min delayed so far. Packed, and standing like sardines, people being turned away. 2 carriages of course. Many unhappy customers here from the looks of it....

Edit . Btp now present to deal with an apparent issue on this service...

And they are off 15 min late. Still not sure why these emt trains are so busy since the 10.14 stopper that we are on is sparsely filled....
 
Last edited:

ChrisC

Established Member
Joined
7 Oct 2018
Messages
2,267
Location
Nottinghamshire
Just standing at sheff station looking at the 9.43 to Liverpool Lime street which is 7 min delayed so far. Packed, and standing like sardines, people being turned away. 2 carriages of course. Many unhappy customers here from the looks of it....

Edit . Btp now present to deal with an apparent issue on this service...

And they are off 15 min late. Still not sure why these emt trains are so busy since the 10.14 stopper that we are on is sparsely filled....
These EMR trains are so busy because they provide an important link between some of the country’s largest cities. Two carriages between Nottingham, Sheffield, Manchester and Liverpool is absolute an joke especially on a Saturday morning. This particular train on a Saturday morning has been short formed for a number of weeks now and has been leaving passengers behind at a number of stations.
 

Llandudno

Established Member
Joined
25 Dec 2014
Messages
2,753
Location
Matlock
Just standing at sheff station looking at the 9.43 to Liverpool Lime street which is 7 min delayed so far. Packed, and standing like sardines, people being turned away. 2 carriages of course. Many unhappy customers here from the looks of it....

Edit . Btp now present to deal with an apparent issue on this service...

And they are off 15 min late. Still not sure why these emt trains are so busy since the 10.14 stopper that we are on is sparsely filled....
This happens EVERY Saturday, but EMR do nothing about it!

Shambolic!
 

Skymonster

Established Member
Joined
7 Feb 2012
Messages
2,068
If I had booked an advance on that service (and even acknowledging it’s counted places rather than seat reservations), I’d be very angry if I was refused boarding and would have no qualms whatsoever about arguing with the on-train staff about the situation. I have no surprise BTP seems to have to get involved. Sadly it’s the idiots at EMR Towers that are creating a bad situation the staff on the ground have to deal with.

I bet EMR doesn’t arrange ticket acceptance with TPE or Northern for those denied boarding which, if I had an EMR-only ticket, would make me even more annoyed and likely to argue with the staff. However, for the most part I know better and would never trust EMR between Sheffield and Manchester these days.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top