Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[FOCTOC]

006 was the one at Feltham. 030 now at Wimbledon. I did observe two halves of a set shunting about independently earlier at Wimbledon - wasn't aware that could be done!

 

[davews]

There was one back at Feltham yesterday. But I passed too quickly to be able to see the number. I get the impression it is sort of based at Feltham, been there for weeks, but goes out on trips now and then, training or what I don't know of course.

 

[Bigfoot]

Are they still testing it or training staff?

Testing. When I say testing I mean trying to get a single unit that actually works correctly.

 

[WarrenTManager]

006 was the one at Feltham. 030 now at Wimbledon. I did observe two halves of a set shunting about independently earlier at Wimbledon - wasn't aware that could be done!

701006 was the one on manoeuvres in half sets.

 

[Ian Hardy]

I was able to have a better look at the 701 at Feltham this afternoon, the sun wasn't shining which helped, I am pretty certain that it is 701011

 

[A7rud]

I was able to have a better look at the 701 at Feltham this afternoon, the sun wasn't shining which helped, I am pretty certain that it is 701011

It most definitely WAS 701011.

 

[dingdinger]

701029 working 5Q69

 

[spark001uk]

5Q10 0800 Derby Litchurch Lane to Eastleigh Trsmd
.
47749 + 701034
Currently 14 early, between Oakham and Corby.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

5Q10 0800 Derby Litchurch Lane to Eastleigh Trsmd
.
47749 + 701034
Currently 14 early, between Oakham and Corby.

another one to add to the collection at Eastleigh must be getting tight for room

 

[fgwrich]

another one to add to the collection at Eastleigh must be getting tight for room

They are. While Arriva must be raking in the money for the storage costs, they seem to be losing roads in their depot on a semi regular basis now. And no, Arlington can't take anymore either - there's already 2 undergoing work in the Works!

Has anyone heard of any progress with the 5 car units? The current suggestion I'm hearing is that Derby has stopped work on them until both the fix for the 10 cars is produced and that some space is freed up as all present storage locations are rather full (Litchurch Lane, Worksop, Eastleigh Works and Eastleigh TMD).

 

[pompeyfan]

I understand that there’s also several at Bournemouth after the 442s were cleared out.

 

[Goldfish62]

They are. While Arriva must be raking in the money for the storage costs, they seem to be losing roads in their depot on a semi regular basis now. And no, Arlington can't take anymore either - there's already 2 undergoing work in the Works!

Has anyone heard of any progress with the 5 car units? The current suggestion I'm hearing is that Derby has stopped work on them until both the fix for the 10 cars is produced and that some space is freed up as all present storage locations are rather full (Litchurch Lane, Worksop, Eastleigh Works and Eastleigh TMD).

I'm surprised that production wasn't stopped a while back. Looking from the outside in the problems with the trains seem intractable. Will they ever actually enter service, or end up being rejected? It wouldn't be the first time in a European country.

 

[dingdinger]

701032 working 5Q56 and 5Q57 currently at Waterloo

 

[444045]

I understand that there’s also several at Bournemouth after the 442s were cleared out.

Yes thats correct, 701016 is having mods done to it currently, there is a move today 5Q45 back to Eastleigh Depot at 1317.

 

[Mollman]

I'm surprised that production wasn't stopped a while back. Looking from the outside in the problems with the trains seem intractable. Will they ever actually enter service, or end up being rejected? It wouldn't be the first time in a European country.

How easy would it be to rebuild them as an Aventra type that has actually entered service?

 

[hwl]

I'm surprised that production wasn't stopped a while back. Looking from the outside in the problems with the trains seem intractable. Will they ever actually enter service, or end up being rejected? It wouldn't be the first time in a European country.

It don't think the problems are intractable. Cabs on the early units need changes (in progress) all the later ones are ok, a new software drop to address most of the issues and then getting some mileage accumulation (to min faults) and then accumulate the fault free mileage for handover.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Oct 2021 ==

How easy would it be to rebuild them as an Aventra type that has actually entered service?

Easier to sort them

 

[Bigfoot]

The latest news.

TO: ALL BRANCHES, REPS AND HEALTH AND SAFETY REPS SOUTH WESTERN
RAILWAY
Fellow Members,
RE: SWR Class 701 Depot Drivers Training
In their October session the Executive Committee gave consideration to a report from the
South Western Railway Company Council dated 29th September 2021 regarding SWR
Class 701 Depot Drivers Training.
The report explained that SWR have formally requested approval of their 701 Depot Drivers
Training but advised that the stock is not yet acceptable. Company Council report many
ongoing issues with the trains, including issues with the TCMS alarm consistently sounding,
issues with the software packages, windscreen wipers obscuring the sighting of the signals,
noisy cab fans, interlock brightness, the HMI & DMI auto-dim function is slow. The Executive
Committee dealt with the matter by adopting the following resolution:
1131/495 “That the report be noted and developments awaited.
Further, that the General Secretary be instructed to advise J Dey, Operations Director
South Western Railway that their Class 701 stock is not fit for purpose and ASLEF will
not be in a position to agree any traction training packages until all issues relating to
the stock in question are addressed to the satisfaction of ASLEF.
All Branches and Reps South Western Railway be advised.”
Please bring the contents of this circular to the attention of your members.
Yours in solidarity
Mick Whelan
General Secretary

 

[adc82140]

If the windscreen wipers are obscuring signals, how is it safe for anyone to be taking these units out?

 

[Goldfish62]

The latest news.

And so it continues.

What baffles me is why these particular Aventras have all these issues yet others (presumably) don't.

Did Bombardier decide, "we'll fit especially bright interlock lights and noisy fans to the 701s, but not other Aventras".?

 

[swt_passenger]

If the windscreen wipers are obscuring signals, how is it safe for anyone to be taking these units out?

Surely they have the same wipers as any other Aventra?

 

[Goldfish62]

And so it continues.

What baffles me is why these particular Aventras have all these issues yet others (presumably) don't.

Did Bombardier decide, "we'll fit especially bright interlock lights and noisy fans to the 701s, but not other Aventras".?

Update : I've spoken to a friend of mine who drives 345s and has also had experience of 710s and he says they both have exactly the same issues, which have yet to be resolved.

 

[Domh245]

Surely they have the same wipers as any other Aventra?

I'd be amazed if they didn't, but the positioning of the wiper relative to the driver will be different, and could cause issues (though surely, if it was going to block anything it'd be normal height signals, not ground signals - and thus not an issue for depot drivers?)

 

[hwl]

And so it continues.

What baffles me is why these particular Aventras have all these issues yet others (presumably) don't.

Did Bombardier decide, "we'll fit especially bright interlock lights and noisy fans to the 701s, but not other Aventras".?

Other ASLEF branches may have been happy with exactly the same items (e.g. the 2 you have highlighted) at other TOCs but which are problems at SWR, which Bombardier will presumably point out to SWR and ask them if they have any underlying industrial relations issues...

 

[adc82140]

Other ASLEF branches may have been happy with exactly the same items (e.g. the 2 you have highlighted) at other TOCs but which are problems at SWR, which Bombardier will presumably point out to SWR and ask them if they have any underlying industrial relations issues...

This sort of thing has to end. Either something is unsafe, in which case it's unsafe for everyone and no unit of that type is allowed out anywhere, or it's safe, and it's in traffic for everyone. It can't be decided on the whim of a local rep. In my profession (NHS) if a new bit of kit is introduced, the MHRA (medical devices and drugs inspectorate) independently scrutinise it. The MHRA is independent of government, and independent of the NHS. Once they are satisfied, it goes in to service. Local union councils don't get a say.

 

[Towers]

This sort of thing has to end. Either something is unsafe, in which case it's unsafe for everyone and no unit of that type is allowed out anywhere, or it's safe, and it's in traffic for everyone. It can't be decided on the whim of a local rep. In my profession (NHS) if a new bit of kit is introduced, the MHRA (medical devices and drugs inspectorate) independently scrutinise it. The MHRA is independent of government, and independent of the NHS. Once they are satisfied, it goes in to service. Local union councils don't get a say.

In the case of trains though, members of the union concerned have to sit in the things all day, and are (thankfully) entitled to a say in their working environment. Some issues are not always immediately apparent upon delivery of a train; take for example the Scotrail EMUs which had to have their front ends modified due to curved windscreens causing signal sighting problems. It's enirely possible that the same may apply to some of ths issues dogging the 701s.

 

[Goldfish62]

In the case of trains though, members of the union concerned have to sit in the things all day, and are (thankfully) entitled to a say in their working environment. Some issues are not always immediately apparent upon delivery of a train; take for example the Scotrail EMUs which had to have their front ends modified due to curved windscreens causing signal sighting problems. It's enirely possible that the same may apply to some of ths issues dogging the 701s.

I think that's fair enough, but that doesn't explain why 345s, 710s and perhaps 720s have at least some of the same issues yet are running around in service.

 

[adc82140]

In the case of trains though, members of the union concerned have to sit in the things all day, and are (thankfully) entitled to a say in their working environment. Some issues are not always immediately apparent upon delivery of a train; take for example the Scotrail EMUs which had to have their front ends modified due to curved windscreens causing signal sighting problems. It's enirely possible that the same may apply to some of ths issues dogging the 701s.

The Scotrail 385s though were first in class, had a problem and it was addressed. No other TOC had anything remotely similar in service. I'd assume that if any other Hitachi AT200s were to be ordered there would be no reason to reject them.

 

[theking]

Rubbish like that is the reason why the push to driverless trains will come in sooner rather than later.

How can a wiper obstruct signal sightings when they drive gangway stock with a windscreen about a quarter of the size of a 701.

Loud fans give me a break.

 

[pompeyfan]

Just because some people are willing to work in crap conditions, doesn’t mean everyone should have to. We’ll done ASLEF

 

[adc82140]

Just because some people are willing to work in crap conditions, doesn’t mean everyone should have to. We’ll done ASLEF

But surely it's ASLEF who are representing drivers that drive other Aventras with the same issues? Does this mean that TfL Rail LOROL and GA crews are being let down by their union?