Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

[Fokx]

Seeing that one of their guards went to prison I'm surprised anyone wants to do the job.

…For (accidental) manslaughter attributed from (his own) negligence.

From the local newspaper which reported this quote from the courtroom - In passing sentence Mr Justice Holroyde said: “You did not intend to kill or even to injure her, but you displayed an appalling disregard for her safety and she paid for your criminal negligence with her life.”

There are many guards who work for Merseyrail without a single issue, accidents sadly do happen and a young intoxicated passenger on this occasion sadly paid with their life.

 

[InOban]

Liverpool is ‘made of different stuff’, more stubborn than the south, and extremely so politically.

The guards want guards on the trains
The drivers want guards on the trains
The passengers want guards on the trains

There will only be one winner here and it won’t be Merseytravels budget.

But I would suggest that what the public expect a 'guard' to actually do is not the same as what the RMT or ASLEF envisage. Onboard staff, certainly. But passenger focussed.

 

[irish_rail]

Liverpool is ‘made of different stuff’, more stubborn than the south, and extremely so politically.

The guards want guards on the trains
The drivers want guards on the trains
The passengers want guards on the trains

There will only be one winner here and it won’t be Merseytravels budget.

Hell of a generalisation that! The disputes on Southern went on for years.
And I can assure you that traincrew down south are just as anti DOO as our northern neighbours.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Liverpool is ‘made of different stuff’, more stubborn than the south, and extremely so politically.

The guards want guards on the trains
The drivers want guards on the trains
The passengers want guards on the trains

The passengers want staff on the trains, ideally ones in the passenger compartment at all times, not hiding in a cab and fiddling with the doors. A mandatory OBS would be ideal (like the Strathclyde approach).

 

[InOban]

The passengers want staff on the trains, ideally ones in the passenger compartment at all times, not hiding in a cab and fiddling with the doors. A mandatory OBS would be ideal (like the Strathclyde approach).

I couldn't agree more.

 

[HSTEd]

The passengers want staff on the trains, ideally ones in the passenger compartment at all times, not hiding in a cab and fiddling with the doors. A mandatory OBS would be ideal (like the Strathclyde approach).

They will until they realise the amount of money it will cost them in fares, given how much subsidy Merseyrail already consumes.

 

[Carlisle]

The passengers want staff on the trains, ideally ones in the passenger compartment at all times, not hiding in a cab and fiddling with the doors. A mandatory OBS would be ideal (like the Strathclyde approach).

Totally agree.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They will until they realise the amount of money it will cost them in fares, given how much subsidy Merseyrail already consumes.

There are ways money can be saved*, and security type staff needn't cost what guards do. That's why I said they don't care if those staff are guards, just that they are visible staff. It is certainly worth having some sort of presence given the serious issues Metrolink has with antisocial behaviour but Merseyrail much less so.

* For instance, I suspect a good many users would find it preferable for most of the booking offices to close (or be reduced to a single shift in the morning only) if TVMs with ToD were provided at every station and e-tickets were introduced for all flows so they can buy a ticket on their phone like almost everyone is doing on every other TOC.

 

[hacman]

There are ways money can be saved*, and security type staff needn't cost what guards do. That's why I said they don't care if those staff are guards, just that they are visible staff. It is certainly worth having some sort of presence given the serious issues Metrolink has with antisocial behaviour but Merseyrail much less so.

* For instance, I suspect a good many users would find it preferable for most of the booking offices to close (or be reduced to a single shift in the morning only) if TVMs with ToD were provided at every station and e-tickets were introduced for all flows so they can buy a ticket on their phone like almost everyone is doing on every other TOC.

Closing booking offices isn't always the way forward here either - on Tyne and Wear Metro we have BIG issues with antisocial behaviour at stations, and the two things that always come up in tandem when possible solutions are discussed is staff on trains AND stations.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Closing booking offices isn't always the way forward here either - on Tyne and Wear Metro we have BIG issues with antisocial behaviour at stations, and the two things that always come up in tandem when possible solutions are discussed is staff on trains AND stations.

Though, again, security staff are cheaper than trained* booking office staff and as they would be out and about on the station would be more effective. I oppose using such staff for revenue duties, but this would purely be security.

* Your mileage may vary on the quality of that training given the reputation for poor service Merseyrail booking offices have.

 

[hacman]

Though, again, security staff are cheaper than trained* booking office staff and as they would be out and about on the station would be more effective. I oppose using such staff for revenue duties, but this would purely be security.

* Your mileage may vary on the quality of that training given the reputation for poor service Merseyrail booking offices have.

I suppose this is one aspect where Metro would differ, as it is not part of the National Rail network and therefore booking office staff wouldn't need the same level of retail training.

That said, there may be some mileage instead having a general "station attendant" role, where the person is also responsible for an element of light upkeep, presentation and cleaning too - if nothing else but to ensure that the role is financially sound and not mind-numbingly boring, whilst ensuring that they do have as you say an active presence in different areas of the station.

Having the people who provide this role given a basic level of training to provide for passengers who need assistance would also go down as a significant customer service win too, reducing the need to call in advance of making journeys.

 

[wobman]

Though, again, security staff are cheaper than trained* booking office staff and as they would be out and about on the station would be more effective. I oppose using such staff for revenue duties, but this would purely be security.

* Your mileage may vary on the quality of that training given the reputation for poor service Merseyrail booking offices have.

The booking staff at the stations I use are very helpful and I would always promote the introduction of more customer service roles in the railways. When I use LU there's always plenty of staff about at gatelines and helping customers

 

[The_Train]

3 have moved to Crewe LNWR for mods to door controls apparently !

Just for clarity is that all 3 of those I mentioned (003, 004 & 006) that have moved or were you just referring to 003?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

* Your mileage may vary on the quality of that training given the reputation for poor service Merseyrail booking offices have.

This is something I've only ever encountered on the pages of this website, and never in the real world. It's often mentioned on here that Merseyrail ticket offices are reluctant to sell tickets to places beyond the local area but I've never had an issue with them myself. I lived in Ormskirk for three years and regularly booked tickets to the likes of Taunton, Aberystwyth etc. Not once did the staff treat my request as an inconvenience, even when I insisted on booking via Preston rather than Liverpool (which required split tickets).

To be honest I think it's just lazy "Scousers are all Trots" stereotyping.

 

[birchesgreen]

This is something I've only ever encountered on the pages of this website, and never in the real world. It's often mentioned on here that Merseyrail ticket offices are reluctant to sell tickets to places beyond the local area but I've never had an issue with them myself.

Kind of funny if it was true as most stations have posters advertising that people can buy tickets (cheapest natch) to anywhere.

 

[stuart100100]

This is something I've only ever encountered on the pages of this website, and never in the real world. It's often mentioned on here that Merseyrail ticket offices are reluctant to sell tickets to places beyond the local area but I've never had an issue with them myself. I lived in Ormskirk for three years and regularly booked tickets to the likes of Taunton, Aberystwyth etc. Not once did the staff treat my request as an inconvenience, even when I insisted on booking via Preston rather than Liverpool (which required split tickets).

To be honest I think it's just lazy "Scousers are all Trots" stereotyping.

Agreed, the staff at Maghull (and now Maghull North) are great and always happy to oblige with my slightly unusual requests at times

 

[Skie]

This is something I've only ever encountered on the pages of this website, and never in the real world. It's often mentioned on here that Merseyrail ticket offices are reluctant to sell tickets to places beyond the local area but I've never had an issue with them myself.

Yep, never had any trouble with the ticket office staff.

I think the main criticism of ticket offices is a central Merseyrail issue: no sodding ToD!

 

[wobman]

This is something I've only ever encountered on the pages of this website, and never in the real world. It's often mentioned on here that Merseyrail ticket offices are reluctant to sell tickets to places beyond the local area but I've never had an issue with them myself. I lived in Ormskirk for three years and regularly booked tickets to the likes of Taunton, Aberystwyth etc. Not once did the staff treat my request as an inconvenience, even when I insisted on booking via Preston rather than Liverpool (which required split tickets).

To be honest I think it's just lazy "Scousers are all Trots" stereotyping.

It's the same experience I've had with the staff, all very helpful and not anything like some posters seem to stereotype

 

[wobman]

Just for clarity is that all 3 of those I mentioned (003, 004 & 006) that have moved or were you just referring to 003?

There are pictures of 3 sets of 777 units at Crewe LNWR, they are there for door mods of some kind ! Don't know the numbers unfortunately.

 

[Ianno87]

Perhaps the accusers of Merseyrail staff are basing their opinion on historical experiences, and things have moved on over the intervening decades?

 

[507020]

Perhaps the accusers of Merseyrail staff are basing their opinion on historical experiences, and things have moved on over the intervening decades?

Try going on a Merseyrail train today and asking passengers if they’ve ever heard it be referred to as “Miseryrail” and most, especially younger ones, won’t have a clue what you’re talking about.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Try going on a Merseyrail train today and asking passengers if they’ve ever heard it be referred to as “Miseryrail” and most, especially younger ones, won’t have a clue what you’re talking about.

Miseryfail was what we used to call it. But the ticket office staff weren't bad back in the 90s in my experience. But that was 90s BR through and through - generally good staff presiding over a railway that was basically falling to bits.

I guess the reason you don't get that taunt any more is that regardless of the ticket office issue the service is almost unrecognisably better than it was back then. Back then it was a poor relation to a German S-Bahn, now it is arguably quite a bit better.

 

[Carlisle]

Try going on a Merseyrail train today and asking passengers if they’ve ever heard it be referred to as “Miseryrail”

Just as C2C passengers don’t likely remember “The Misery Line” in huge numbers.

 

[507020]

Miseryfail was what we used to call it. But the ticket office staff weren't bad back in the 90s in my experience. But that was 90s BR through and through - generally good staff presiding over a railway that was basically falling to bits.

I guess the reason you don't get that taunt any more is that regardless of the ticket office issue the service is almost unrecognisably better than it was back then. Back then it was a poor relation to a German S-Bahn, now it is arguably quite a bit better.

A lot of the older staff now (who when they started at BR in the 1970s there were still staff working on the railway had started their apprenticeships for the original pre-grouping companies) have told me that new staff they’re hiring now don’t have anything like the work ethic that is needed on the railway.

It’s unbelievable that the service can be so unrecognisably different given that it’s the same trains (which are now 40 years old) running to the same destinations, largely with the same staff running them, but in some places at a reduced frequency. What is there to have changed?

 

[Carlisle]

It’s unbelievable that the service can be so unrecognisably different given that it’s the same trains (which are now 40 years old) running to the same destinations, largely with the same staff running them, but in some places at a reduced frequency. What is there to have changed?

More reliable components installed nowadays on the trains, signalling & power supply systems, higher funding for BRs successors to fix longstanding infrastructure problems & franchising meaning your crew aren’t nicked for other TOCs or FOCs work.

 

[3973EXL]

5Q42 28/09
Realtime Trains - 537R 1245 Walton Old Jn.M.S.C.Sdgs to Crewe C.S.

37 Mk3 Barrier 777016/018 Barrier Mk3 57

 

[Skymonster]

5Q42 28/09
Realtime Trains - 537R 1245 Walton Old Jn.M.S.C.Sdgs to Crewe C.S.

37 Mk3 Barrier 777016/018 Barrier Mk3 57

Indeed, 37510 + barriers + 777018 + 777016 + barriers + 57312

Locos back to Derby, 777s on Crewe CS adjacent to the WCML just south of Crewe. The other four 777s at Crewe were outside and visible from the Alsager / Stoke line (along with a TfW 197/1, presume 101)

 

[507020]

Locos back to Derby, 777s on Crewe CS adjacent to the WCML just south of Crewe. The other four 777s at Crewe were outside and visible from the Alsager / Stoke line (along with a TfW 197/1, presume 101)

Which side of the WCML are they visible from and is it from the Stafford, Kidsgrove or Shrewsbury direction?

 

[D821]

I noticed there was a 508 in the sidings at BHN tonight. I've not noticed any there for a while. Is it likely to have been moved due to lack of space over the water with the 777s arriving ?

 

[507020]

I noticed there was a 508 in the sidings at BHN tonight. I've not noticed any there for a while. Is it likely to have been moved due to lack of space over the water with the 777s arriving ?

No new 777s are arriving from the factory though. The movement was from Warrington to Crewe.