Staffordshire Bus News

[43055]

Fair point on the 18/101 interworking and I can understand the Kingfisher deckers appearing elsewhere. Just that when you see standard liveries on the 18/101 whilst a Leek or Knotty ones are on other routes, it does seem like a lack of focus. I accept the odd one to cover a breakdown but it seemed widespread.

I would also say that from the bleak days on 2015/6 when the fleet was perhaps at it's lowest ebb, it does look better.

Yeah that does sound a bit rubbish when branded buses are available. The 18 is even running less frequently at the moment (30/60 instead of 20 min tops). I would agree that they do look better now and that could be said across the country for first with a lot more branded areas/routes.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yeah that does sound a bit rubbish when branded buses are available. The 18 is even running less frequently at the moment (30/60 instead of 20 min tops). I would agree that they do look better now and that could be said across the country for first with a lot more branded areas/routes.

As it was Saturday, the 18 was running hourly which I thought was a little surprising.

The Potteries fleet went from quite smart (the Scania refurbs and the e200mmc - don't think the Kingfishers have been refurbed) through to ok with the Streetlites and the other Omnicities. Might I guess that the e300s (still in Barbie) and other deckers would be perhaps rather peachy though?

 

[43055]

As it was Saturday, the 18 was running hourly which I thought was a little surprising.

The Potteries fleet went from quite smart (the Scania refurbs and the e200mmc - don't think the Kingfishers have been refurbed) through to ok with the Streetlites and the other Omnicities. Might I guess that the e300s (still in Barbie) and other deckers would be perhaps rather peachy though?

It does seem surpriseing when most other routes are at there abouts normal frequency or just below.

The branded scanias do look nice and the unbranded fleet doesn't look bad either. Unfortunately yes the kingfisher vehicles are not internally referbished.

 

[Bungle965]

Any further posts on Arriva exiting Cannock should be made in this thread

Arriva exiting Cannock

Reported that Arriva operations from Cannock are transferring to D & G in early january.

www.railforums.co.uk

Thanks,
Bus and Coach Moderators

 

[43055]

Midland Classic are reintroducing a full timetable on the 19th April but also at the same time adding a few more services in the morning /evenings.

1 - renumbered 6
1S - renumbered 1
9 - Additional 0422 Winshill - Burton Mon-Sat, 2120 from Burton comes off the 2025 401 from Uttoxeter giving a later through service from the Hospital.
12 - Services that do not serve Yoxhall are numbered 12E and a number of additional early/later journeys added. These being 0450, 1920, 2050 from Burton and 0620, 2005, 2220 from Litchfield. There is also 2 return trips between Litchfield and Fradley Park. All numbered 12E.
401 - New 1935 Burton - Uttoxeter & 2025 return. The return trip continues as the 2120 9 to the Airport.

Other routes have minor or no changes.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Having not had a trip out in my old stomping grounds of Staffordshire for many years, an unexpected opportunity came up to have my second trip in 8 months, courtesy of the Staffordshire Knot ticket. For the uninitiated, this is a multi operator ticket that allows travel within Stoke/Staffordshire (but not over the borders into neighbouring counties) on Arriva, First, Select, Midland Classic, D&G / Chaserider and National Express /Travel West Midlands; Diamond were part of the original scheme but appear to have dropped out and other operators such as Aimees or Stantons don't seem to be involved. So here's my little travelogue - I hope it's of interest.... Also, if you have any info to add, that would be great.

The day started in the home of the famous pickle, Branston, where production existed for just two years yet the village remains synonymous with the brand. I say "village", but the place has long been subsumed into Burton on Trent. My first bus was the 12E which is a semi-fast service to Lichfield. Unlike the X12 that bombs down the A38, or the 12 that wends its way out via Yoxall, this route serves the major village of Barton under Needwood and then the major logistics hub of Fradley Park. It has some very early services and also an evening service (but no Sunday service) and I'm not certain if it's a fully commercial venture from Midland Classic or if any external funding is received. The 12/12E/X12 corridor is much improved and the vehicle was a former London e400, still retaining its centre doors. As usual, despite it being 14 years of age, it carries its age well owing to the excellent presentation internally and externally from MC. They really are an excellent firm. One observation was that 5 years on from taking over, a lot of bus stops still have Arriva names on them. That might be because the council (are supposed to) maintain them but they could do with a tidy up. That's a minor gripe and we headed off in decent weather on a relaxed trip to Lichfield, expertly driven.

Arriving at Lichfield bus station is like heading back in time. There have been some changes (e.g. new toilet block) but otherwise, the place is unchanged in 40 years. Even the bus shelters, despite having new notices and advertising, date from that period. Interestingly, the bus stops had full sized ads for Midland Classic to Burton on their stand, and still retained adverts for Arriva services to Burntwood that have been Chaserider for a good few months. Arriva still run in from Tamworth and it's a real border town with Diamond, Chaserider, Midland Classic, and National Express WM all with significant presence. Chaserider is still represented by many former Arriva vehicles with vinyls applied; chatting with a Chaserider driver (** unfounded rumour alert **), they are looking to replace many of the elderly Darts with secondhand e200s imminently; apparently transfer to Select was mooted but they'll go for disposal unlike the ex Arriva Eclipses that are being repainted. The driver, a friendly soul, was not entirely a fan of the new management with impending service changes not communicated to staff adequately and no actual route learning but just maps handed to staff; they actually missed some of the old Arriva professionalism! It was one of the old Arriva fleet (former 2372) that would be my next machine to Stafford, a route that I'd not done fully for a while. This would be one of the death row vehicles apparently. Internally, it wasn't too bad except for the plethora of Arriva notices (they love a notice) that had Chaserider logos crudely applied to them over the offending Arriva name. It was both a commitment from D&G yet smacked of tackiness. That said, the elderly Dart was actually not a bad old Hector. It had been brand new for the route (as Spires Link - the old branding still almost visible on many bus stops) in 2005 and after a spell elsewhere, had been dumped in Cannock for the sale. It actually managed pretty well for a 16 year old machine.

We arrived in Stafford and I had expected a 20-25 min wait for my next bus but as luck would have it, a First Omnicity in Knotty livery was on the stand at Gaol Square (Stafford's excuse for a bus station) so I went straight from one to another. First have done a good job with these Omnicities, giving them a smart paint job and an internal refresh with USBs and wifi, as well as new seat cushions. It was a swift trip up the A34 and shows that at that age, you can protect and maintain vehicles and make them attractive to passengers even at 15 years of age. Whilst sat there, a woman (c.60 years) began that odd practice of engaging in conversation and then not, and then again in some staccato style of chatting as she told me about her haircut at the local college. She seemed quite normal, but not quite skilled in conversation! After arriving at Newcastle, I popped off for some much needed food.

After visiting just a few months ago, I was largely retracing my steps (in reverse) so I was keen to see some new territory. I saw the 4A to Talke on the map but looking at the timetable, it clearly changes number in Talke and runs through to Kidsgrove and then back to Hanley. Now this is the thing - drivers get a bad rap at times (especially those with large firms), often judged by the worst of their profession whilst most are actually skilled and committed and professional. At Newcastle bus station, I saw the best. The driver went to begin their stint with a Wright Streetlite already waiting for them at the stand. A youngish guy in an electric wheelchair with something akin to celebral palsy, was waiting to get from college. However, the wheelchair ramp was difficult to deploy and the driver tried to alter with the kneeling facility but it just wasn't working. So after reassuring the passenger, he returned the ramp back and then repositioned the bus so the wheelchair could then enter. Not only that, he allowed the guy to get on and into the wheelchair bay, before going to him, getting his pass and scanning it for him and then returning it. It was excellent customer service (and I've written to First to pass on my feedback). Moreover, on heading off, he drove the Streetlite skilfully. There was none of the issues that are usually mentioned in terms of excessive rattling (esp. when idling), harsh braking, and jolting gearchanges - Streetlites are never going to be regarded like a B10BLE but this was....adequate or fine. At Kidsgrove, the driver did deploy the wheelchair ramp, saying goodbye to the disabled passenger and seemed like he genuinely cared.

I had a short explore in Kidsgrove (my first and possibly last visit) and then another Streetlite arrived from Crewe heading for the city centre via Tunstall. Now, this is something I touched on in my last Potteries post - First have fundamentally cocked up the local network over the last 25 years with a lack of investment and management focus culminating in a disastrous public enquiry and O license cut that necessitated cuts to their network. However, the fact is that also the Potteries towns are very much on the bones of their @*** and it's understandable that some cuts have been made over the last 5 years. It was another Streetlite, again none of the usual issues, so perhaps First Potteries have now sorted out some of the problems.

My final First bus was to do the full trip of the Kingfisher to Uttoxeter. Now this is one of the more recent cuts in that it was half hourly to Cheadle but having cut it back to hourly, it has allowed D&G to sneak in with an hourly fast service to Tean. Not good. I had hoped that I'd have a decker and whilst 2/3 of the boards were the designated Kingfisher deckers, I could see the third on the 6A and that meant mine was a single deck, which is a shame as once you leave the Potteries for Werrington, the scenery is absolutely gorgeous (and a real hidden gem). I'd definitely recommend it to people to travel. However, not if the vehicle is an ageing Scania Omnicity - the worst vehicle I think I've travelled on in many a long year. I think it was one of those bought by First after that public enquiry to update the fleet but the seats are terrible (dealer spec). Not only that, every pothole and bump was emphasised by a total lack of suspension - it was dreadful. I was so pleased to arrive in Uttoxeter. Observations are that Kingfisher is a bit half baked - the fleet is repainted but not refurbished, only having three deckers for a PVR of 3 limits the quality aspect as well. Uttoxeter bus station only highlights another failing - where TrentBarton promote Swift at their stop, there is nothing other than a departure list for Kingfisher. The bus station is another time capsule in Staffordshire, and I didn't appreciate that the shopping precinct is in such bad shape. Aside from a charity shop and the Iceland branch, the rest is all shuttered.... Is it due for redevelopment?

The return back to Burton was via the 402. I've done the main traditional route (via Foston/Hatton) many times but never this one via Marchington. A Wright Solar (again nicely presented by Midland Classic) duly arrived in the drizzle. Waiting at the stop was another lady of an age who engaged me in conversation.... must've been my aftershave! I say conversation, as she actually did 90% of the talking as she told me of her life as an aspiring actress, then mother, and now a Pam Ayres tribute act in care homes and village halls. I humoured her by nodding appropriately but you don't wish to be rude and you don't know their circumstances - she might be crushingly lonely so it's no sacrifice to spend 10 mins listening. Despite this selflessness, I confess I was relieved when she was an early exit from the Solar and so I could then relax though I would question the routeing of the service around Marchington and some very narrow lanes. We arrived late into Burton, not helped by the usual terrible traffic in the town. I missed my connection but it was fine... I grabbed a coffee at Costa and waited for the short trip down to Branston, with another ex London decker (a B7TL) arriving.

All in all, a good if shortish day out. Observations are.... there's a lot of quite old vehicles still working, and not many new <5 year old ones to be seen. Midland Classic are an excellent outfit. First isn't as bad as it was but it still needs a lot of focus to get it where it could and should be; there are positive signs and the fleet is perhaps newer than for many a year but still some quite oldish and not well presented fleet (e.g. the Eclipses just arrived from Diamond). Perhaps a defined Potteries livery to cover the fleet rather than Urban? As for D&G/Chaserider.... they aren't always the best in Stoke and they have to sort of out the Chaserider operations. They are getting stuck in but need more attention to detail... they could look at the associated Midland Classic operation to see how it should be done!

Anyhow, hope this has proved mildly diverting

 

[RELL6L]

Thanks for your interesting trip report.

I think you have slightly “dissed” Kidsgrove! I agree there is very little to see but not nothing- the north portal of the Harecastle Tunnel is close to the town centre and worth visiting for the colour of the water.

I was in the First part of the territory last autumn. At that time allocations were all over the place to deal with reduced capacity, I don’t think there were any deckers out on the Kingfisher as they were on boards of all sorts on routes most needing the seats. Several were on the 3 and 4 group, but not Crewe workings. It didn’t give a good impression but that wasn’t then a priority. A decent input of new vehicles into the area could make quite a difference as you almost get the impression First are just going through the motions. Of course this is not good bus territory as it once was but there is still a customer base to be had.

I agree the Kingfisher is scenic. I was lucky enough to do the old 32A on a decker when that ran and that was even better. Agree also on Lichfield and Uttoxeter bus stations being from a time warp. I haven’t experienced Chaserider yet but Arriva from Cannock were pretty poor. I agree also on Midland Classic, they seem a very competent, smart and reliable operator with a reasonable degree of innovation.

 

[Robertj21a]

I agree that Midland Classic is a good quality operation and the D&G, Chaserider, and Select operations (all 4 having a Julian Peddle involvement) are gradually getting there too.
First Potteries suffers from historic problems which their long suffering passengers are reluctant to forget, quite apart from the significant loss of jobs across the region over many years. It must be a difficult operation to keep even marginally profitable.

 

[43055]

Having not had a trip out in my old stomping grounds of Staffordshire for many years, an unexpected opportunity came up to have my second trip in 8 months, courtesy of the Staffordshire Knot ticket. For the uninitiated, this is a multi operator ticket that allows travel within Stoke/Staffordshire (but not over the borders into neighbouring counties) on Arriva, First, Select, Midland Classic, D&G / Chaserider and National Express /Travel West Midlands; Diamond were part of the original scheme but appear to have dropped out and other operators such as Aimees or Stantons don't seem to be involved. So here's my little travelogue - I hope it's of interest.... Also, if you have any info to add, that would be great.

The day started in the home of the famous pickle, Branston, where production existed for just two years yet the village remains synonymous with the brand. I say "village", but the place has long been subsumed into Burton on Trent. My first bus was the 12E which is a semi-fast service to Lichfield. Unlike the X12 that bombs down the A38, or the 12 that wends its way out via Yoxall, this route serves the major village of Barton under Needwood and then the major logistics hub of Fradley Park. It has some very early services and also an evening service (but no Sunday service) and I'm not certain if it's a fully commercial venture from Midland Classic or if any external funding is received. The 12/12E/X12 corridor is much improved and the vehicle was a former London e400, still retaining its centre doors. As usual, despite it being 14 years of age, it carries its age well owing to the excellent presentation internally and externally from MC. They really are an excellent firm. One observation was that 5 years on from taking over, a lot of bus stops still have Arriva names on them. That might be because the council (are supposed to) maintain them but they could do with a tidy up. That's a minor gripe and we headed off in decent weather on a relaxed trip to Lichfield, expertly driven.

Arriving at Lichfield bus station is like heading back in time. There have been some changes (e.g. new toilet block) but otherwise, the place is unchanged in 40 years. Even the bus shelters, despite having new notices and advertising, date from that period. Interestingly, the bus stops had full sized ads for Midland Classic to Burton on their stand, and still retained adverts for Arriva services to Burntwood that have been Chaserider for a good few months. Arriva still run in from Tamworth and it's a real border town with Diamond, Chaserider, Midland Classic, and National Express WM all with significant presence. Chaserider is still represented by many former Arriva vehicles with vinyls applied; chatting with a Chaserider driver (** unfounded rumour alert **), they are looking to replace many of the elderly Darts with secondhand e200s imminently; apparently transfer to Select was mooted but they'll go for disposal unlike the ex Arriva Eclipses that are being repainted. The driver, a friendly soul, was not entirely a fan of the new management with impending service changes not communicated to staff adequately and no actual route learning but just maps handed to staff; they actually missed some of the old Arriva professionalism! It was one of the old Arriva fleet (former 2372) that would be my next machine to Stafford, a route that I'd not done fully for a while. This would be one of the death row vehicles apparently. Internally, it wasn't too bad except for the plethora of Arriva notices (they love a notice) that had Chaserider logos crudely applied to them over the offending Arriva name. It was both a commitment from D&G yet smacked of tackiness. That said, the elderly Dart was actually not a bad old Hector. It had been brand new for the route (as Spires Link - the old branding still almost visible on many bus stops) in 2005 and after a spell elsewhere, had been dumped in Cannock for the sale. It actually managed pretty well for a 16 year old machine.

We arrived in Stafford and I had expected a 20-25 min wait for my next bus but as luck would have it, a First Omnicity in Knotty livery was on the stand at Gaol Square (Stafford's excuse for a bus station) so I went straight from one to another. First have done a good job with these Omnicities, giving them a smart paint job and an internal refresh with USBs and wifi, as well as new seat cushions. It was a swift trip up the A34 and shows that at that age, you can protect and maintain vehicles and make them attractive to passengers even at 15 years of age. Whilst sat there, a woman (c.60 years) began that odd practice of engaging in conversation and then not, and then again in some staccato style of chatting as she told me about her haircut at the local college. She seemed quite normal, but not quite skilled in conversation! After arriving at Newcastle, I popped off for some much needed food.

After visiting just a few months ago, I was largely retracing my steps (in reverse) so I was keen to see some new territory. I saw the 4A to Talke on the map but looking at the timetable, it clearly changes number in Talke and runs through to Kidsgrove and then back to Hanley. Now this is the thing - drivers get a bad rap at times (especially those with large firms), often judged by the worst of their profession whilst most are actually skilled and committed and professional. At Newcastle bus station, I saw the best. The driver went to begin their stint with a Wright Streetlite already waiting for them at the stand. A youngish guy in an electric wheelchair with something akin to celebral palsy, was waiting to get from college. However, the wheelchair ramp was difficult to deploy and the driver tried to alter with the kneeling facility but it just wasn't working. So after reassuring the passenger, he returned the ramp back and then repositioned the bus so the wheelchair could then enter. Not only that, he allowed the guy to get on and into the wheelchair bay, before going to him, getting his pass and scanning it for him and then returning it. It was excellent customer service (and I've written to First to pass on my feedback). Moreover, on heading off, he drove the Streetlite skilfully. There was none of the issues that are usually mentioned in terms of excessive rattling (esp. when idling), harsh braking, and jolting gearchanges - Streetlites are never going to be regarded like a B10BLE but this was....adequate or fine. At Kidsgrove, the driver did deploy the wheelchair ramp, saying goodbye to the disabled passenger and seemed like he genuinely cared.

I had a short explore in Kidsgrove (my first and possibly last visit) and then another Streetlite arrived from Crewe heading for the city centre via Tunstall. Now, this is something I touched on in my last Potteries post - First have fundamentally cocked up the local network over the last 25 years with a lack of investment and management focus culminating in a disastrous public enquiry and O license cut that necessitated cuts to their network. However, the fact is that also the Potteries towns are very much on the bones of their @*** and it's understandable that some cuts have been made over the last 5 years. It was another Streetlite, again none of the usual issues, so perhaps First Potteries have now sorted out some of the problems.

My final First bus was to do the full trip of the Kingfisher to Uttoxeter. Now this is one of the more recent cuts in that it was half hourly to Cheadle but having cut it back to hourly, it has allowed D&G to sneak in with an hourly fast service to Tean. Not good. I had hoped that I'd have a decker and whilst 2/3 of the boards were the designated Kingfisher deckers, I could see the third on the 6A and that meant mine was a single deck, which is a shame as once you leave the Potteries for Werrington, the scenery is absolutely gorgeous (and a real hidden gem). I'd definitely recommend it to people to travel. However, not if the vehicle is an ageing Scania Omnicity - the worst vehicle I think I've travelled on in many a long year. I think it was one of those bought by First after that public enquiry to update the fleet but the seats are terrible (dealer spec). Not only that, every pothole and bump was emphasised by a total lack of suspension - it was dreadful. I was so pleased to arrive in Uttoxeter. Observations are that Kingfisher is a bit half baked - the fleet is repainted but not refurbished, only having three deckers for a PVR of 3 limits the quality aspect as well. Uttoxeter bus station only highlights another failing - where TrentBarton promote Swift at their stop, there is nothing other than a departure list for Kingfisher. The bus station is another time capsule in Staffordshire, and I didn't appreciate that the shopping precinct is in such bad shape. Aside from a charity shop and the Iceland branch, the rest is all shuttered.... Is it due for redevelopment?

The return back to Burton was via the 402. I've done the main traditional route (via Foston/Hatton) many times but never this one via Marchington. A Wright Solar (again nicely presented by Midland Classic) duly arrived in the drizzle. Waiting at the stop was another lady of an age who engaged me in conversation.... must've been my aftershave! I say conversation, as she actually did 90% of the talking as she told me of her life as an aspiring actress, then mother, and now a Pam Ayres tribute act in care homes and village halls. I humoured her by nodding appropriately but you don't wish to be rude and you don't know their circumstances - she might be crushingly lonely so it's no sacrifice to spend 10 mins listening. Despite this selflessness, I confess I was relieved when she was an early exit from the Solar and so I could then relax though I would question the routeing of the service around Marchington and some very narrow lanes. We arrived late into Burton, not helped by the usual terrible traffic in the town. I missed my connection but it was fine... I grabbed a coffee at Costa and waited for the short trip down to Branston, with another ex London decker (a B7TL) arriving.

All in all, a good if shortish day out. Observations are.... there's a lot of quite old vehicles still working, and not many new <5 year old ones to be seen. Midland Classic are an excellent outfit. First isn't as bad as it was but it still needs a lot of focus to get it where it could and should be; there are positive signs and the fleet is perhaps newer than for many a year but still some quite oldish and not well presented fleet (e.g. the Eclipses just arrived from Diamond). Perhaps a defined Potteries livery to cover the fleet rather than Urban? As for D&G/Chaserider.... they aren't always the best in Stoke and they have to sort of out the Chaserider operations. They are getting stuck in but need more attention to detail... they could look at the associated Midland Classic operation to see how it should be done!

Anyhow, hope this has proved mildly diverting

Thanks for posting.

I agree that Midland Classic are an excellent outfit. The few times I have used them on the Uttoxeter and Lichfield routes. The drivers were friendly and the buses were smartly turned out. As for the Arriva on the stops a believe that is the council which look after the flags. One thing that I did notice the other night is in Stretton (opposite the co-op) one of the stops with a larger case still has a Arriva timetable in!

I used the 32 a couple of times and a few years back before it was branded and the interiors of the Volvos did look as if a refresh was needed so its a shame that they didn't get internally done like the Omnicities. Hopefully a new local livery will come to the Potteries as it seems that most other First ops are refreshing the liveries with more local identities.

I agree the Kingfisher is scenic. I was lucky enough to do the old 32A on a decker when that ran and that was even better. Agree also on Lichfield and Uttoxeter bus stations being from a time warp. I haven’t experienced Chaserider yet but Arriva from Cannock were pretty poor. I agree also on Midland Classic, they seem a very competent, smart and reliable operator with a reasonable degree of innovation.

I agree about the Kingfisher. Done it a few times on deckers but the one time I used the 32A and I got a omnicity!

In other Midland Classic news, Scandia Irizar i3 YN64 FWX (26) entered service on Thursday after being refurbished and now has high back seating. The other 5 are still to enter service (fleet no's 23 to 28) which at least 3 were on the depot last week. These also carry the base livery of the airway 9.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think you have slightly “dissed” Kidsgrove! I agree there is very little to see but not nothing- the north portal of the Harecastle Tunnel is close to the town centre and worth visiting for the colour of the water.

I didn't "diss" Kidsgrove. Just that it's off the beaten track, a little, so I don't know when or if I'll ever return. It seems to be a reasonable place and in better health than other places such as Tunstall town centre which seems in terminal decline.

I agree that Midland Classic is a good quality operation and the D&G, Chaserider, and Select operations (all 4 having a Julian Peddle involvement) are gradually getting there too.
First Potteries suffers from historic problems which their long suffering passengers are reluctant to forget, quite apart from the significant loss of jobs across the region over many years. It must be a difficult operation to keep even marginally profitable.

The First operations (before Covid) seemed to have turned the corner financially. However, the need to improve the image locally is still apparent despite the clear improvement over recent years. Certainly, the operation is now outwardly smarter than D&G. However, I am surprised that they haven't done more, such as focus on the Keele Uni services in terms of marketing etc.

Midland Classic has a minority shareholding from Julian Peddle but the lessons don't appear to be shared with the directly owned D&G; the Stoke ops are a bit shabby and can only hope they get that sorted in addition to managing the Chaserider acquisition.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Midland Classic has a minority shareholding from Julian Peddle but the lessons don't appear to be shared with the directly owned D&G; the Stoke ops are a bit shabby and can only hope they get that sorted in addition to managing the Chaserider acquisition.

Although I haven't used any of the services the bold bright red which D&G are painting the Chaserider vehicles in is very refreshing compared to some of their previous dowdy Arriva blue. I saw an FJ58 plate bus the other day which looked really modern in the new red compared to when it was turquoise and cream.

Chaserider have also reinstated the No 1 Cannock-Walsall which Arriva ditched, so I think local bus users will feel uplifted to have them increasign their services.

 

[43055]

Some changes (cuts) from First Potteries from tomorrow.
Service changes from 26 September 2021 | Potteries | First Bus

Service changes from 26 September 2021​

26 Sep 2021All Areas

We are making changes to a small number of oue bus services from Sunday 26 Septermber:

Service 8 Hanley – Smallthorne – Norton – Ball Green

On Mondays to Saturdays buses will run every hour along the full length of the route.

Services 11/11B Hanley – Bentilee – Longton – Stoke – Newcastle

On Mondays to Fridays buses on route 11 will run every 30 minutes between Hanley and Newcastle. On routes 11 & 11B buses will run every 15 minutes between Hanley and Bentilee.

Saturday evening buses are retimed between Longton and Hanley.

The Sunday timetable is unchanged.

Service 25 Hanley – Stoke Station – Stoke – Royal Stoke University Hospital – Newcastle – Keele University

A new timetable is introduced from the above date as students return to Keele University. Buses will run every 12 minutes between Hanley and Keele.

Service 98 Ball Green – Smallthorne – Burslem – Porthill – Wolstanton – Newcastle

On Mondays to Fridays the 7.29pm trip from Ball Green to Newcastle will no longer operate. The Saturday timetable is unchanged.

Service 101 Hanley – Newcastle – Trentham – Stone – Stafford

Most trips at peak times are retimes to improve reliability. These may run earlier or later.

‘Kingfisher’ service – Hanley – Werrington – Kingsley – Cheadle – Tean – Uttoxeter

The following trips are retimed on Mondays to Fridays:

6.42am & 7.42am Hanley to Uttoxeter

7.00am Cheadle to Hanley

8.10am Uttoxeter to Hanley

On Saturdays the 8.37am trip from Hanley to Uttoxeter will leave Tean at 9.31am and run later to Uttoxeter

The Sunday timetable is unchanged

 

[James101]

Some changes (cuts) from First Potteries from tomorrow.
Service changes from 26 September 2021 | Potteries | First Bus

When you think that the population of the Potteries area (Stoke & Newcastle) is roughly equal to that of Nottingham, then compare their public transport provision, it's in a woeful state.

 

[Man of Kent]

When you think that the population of the Potteries area (Stoke & Newcastle) is roughly equal to that of Nottingham, then compare their public transport provision, it's in a woeful state.

As is the retail provision, which drives an awful lot of patronage. If the relevant councils had planning and public transport policies as strong as Nottingham City and Notts County, it could have been a different outcome.

 

[James101]

As is the retail provision, which drives an awful lot of patronage. If the relevant councils had planning and public transport policies as strong as Nottingham City and Notts County, it could have been a different outcome.

Quite. Stoke is particularly guilty of granting far too many small retail parks on former industrial sites around the city. Dozens of identical parades of B&Ms, Home Bargains, Icelands, Aldis with huge car parks, which one can use for a perfectly functional shopping experience, no leisure or joy aspect at all. The region is devoid of a central hub for retail which would support the leisure and cultural attractions.

First are not innocent though. I can’t see any discernible effort in adapting the network to reflect where people want to go. Still a Hanley-centric network when in reality no-one with a choice wants to be there. The busiest car parks are Trentham, Festival Park Wolstanton, Talke, all flirted with by bus but never really committed to.

As for D&G, the neatest, most informative thing on their buses are the mega-rear adverts they carry for Lucky 7 taxis.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Quite. Stoke is particularly guilty of granting far too many small retail parks on former industrial sites around the city. Dozens of identical parades of B&Ms, Home Bargains, Icelands, Aldis with huge car parks, which one can use for a perfectly functional shopping experience, no leisure or joy aspect at all. The region is devoid of a central hub for retail which would support the leisure and cultural attractions.

First are not innocent though. I can’t see any discernible effort in adapting the network to reflect where people want to go. Still a Hanley-centric network when in reality no-one with a choice wants to be there. The busiest car parks are Trentham, Festival Park Wolstanton, Talke, all flirted with by bus but never really committed to.

As for D&G, the neatest, most informative thing on their buses are the mega-rear adverts they carry for Lucky 7 taxis.

It's not entirely fair to blame Stoke-on-Trent Council (or any other) for the situation. Councils often turned down applications for out-of-town retail developments (more so supermarkets than bulky goods stores) but they were overturned on appeal. The planning system was heavily stacked in favour of allowing such developments. It is even more so now where 'anything goes' unless there is a very good reason to refuse it. There are also plenty of examples where officers recommended refusal of a planning application but members voted to approve it anyway. Politicians think the investment (and good publicity / votes for them that goes with it) comes without a price. In reality people have £x to spend and they can only spend it once. There then follows the slow decline and ultimately the closure of smaller stores - in villages, on estates, the corner shop in terraced areas, but less so in town centres.

Whatever people may think about 'you must save our town centre', those same people then vote with their feet and customise the out-of-town locations in their tens of millions, every week.

You can also blame car park pricing policies where charges were set to discourage driving to town centres to encourage use of public transport. In reality it simply drove people and investment away from town centres to those out-of-town locations with their free, plentiful, non multi-storey car parks. That particularly applies to non-retail where office parks and business parks are now the norm. Even health and leisure facilities are becoming increasingly difficult to access without a car. Some councils (Worcestershire) even do it themselves by moving their offices to peripheral locations! At least Staffordshire built their new offices in Stafford town centre, as did Stoke and Newcastle in their respective centres.

Then you have the Stoke versus Newcastle willy waving. "You allowed shops on Festival Park so we are going try and spoil it by allowing something very similar, just over the border in Newcastle (Wolstanton Retail Park)". Or Trentham Gardens where the development is actually in Stafford Borough, and their approval of that large retail park has very little impact on shops in Stafford when compared to its impact on shops in Stoke (or Newcastle).

First, like so many things in The Potteries, is not really focused upon service nor does it do much in the way of innovation. It just plods along doing things like it always has, and when profits decline it cuts its cloth to match. They never wanted to serve Festival Park, especially when it was a cul-de-sac. When the Cobridge entrance was built, they did divert a service that way (the 21 if I recall, every 20 minutes). So serving one market by making the service less attractive to all the other users. Similarly when the Sentinel / Bet 365 entrance was built, they diverted an existing service that way (the 4), again adding a time penalty for existing users wanting to go direct between Hanley and Newcastle.

Trentham Gardens: First served it for a few months before diktat required them to cut the number of buses overall. The Trentham route was truncated before it had the chance to establish itself. But why bother serving such a popular location directly when people can trudge up the A34 to The Poachers Cottage stop and stand in the rain!

Talke: is a difficult one, the Co-op hypermarket always struggled, regardless of bus service (or not). Attempts to make it an out-of-town retail destination have similarly struggled (Freeport and whatever it was before that). I'm not sure how the current version is doing, it is such a ball-ache to get to by bus from the south of the city, essentially a whole day out.

First has been declining at pace in The Potteries since the introduction of The Overground concept - which is where the Hanley centric network was first introduced. It failed (see the note in the published accounts) but they refused to reverse the decision. All the subsequent network reviews, and there have been many, have retained that quicksand foundation. The network no longer takes people where they want to go, at the times they want to go there. A Northampton style exit is, I fear, inevitable.

 

[Robertj21a]

To an outsider, the Hanley centric network seems fairly logical when there is comparatively little in most other areas (except Newcastle). Any bus link serving just the other towns is hardly likely to be successful if it doesn't go anywhere worthwhile.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

To an outsider, the Hanley centric network seems fairly logical when there is comparatively little in most other areas (except Newcastle). Any bus link serving just the other towns is hardly likely to be successful if it doesn't go anywhere worthwhile.

A Hanley and Newcastle centric network does make sense, for shoppers at least (or did until fairly recently). However the direct links offered by through cross-city services made the difference. The problem is the gradual removal of those cross-city services which served all of the towns, including Hanley. Basically the Mainline which ran from Kidsgrove to Meir via Tunstall, Burslem, Hanley, Stoke, Fenton and Longton.

I can't recall the exact timeline of events, the links got removed over various network reviews rather than in one go, but that Mainline route (the 24) and the similar 21 and 22 (estates beyond Tunstall to Trentham estates) allowed many journeys to be made without requiring a change of bus. Once that 'single simple change at Hanley' (ahem) was introduced, you built in a 5 minute time penalty with the hassle of changing vehicles (might or might not get a seat, interrupted magazine reading, wait on cold draughty old bus station etc). Now, as frequencies have been cut over time, you are looking at a wait of up to 30 minutes for your onward journey, in an admittedly better enclosed bus station.

It is quicker to get from London to Stoke-on-Trent by train than it is to get from the station to my house in Potteries suburbia.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

A Hanley and Newcastle centric network does make sense, for shoppers at least (or did until fairly recently). However the direct links offered by through cross-city services made the difference. The problem is the gradual removal of those cross-city services which served all of the towns, including Hanley. Basically the Mainline which ran from Kidsgrove to Meir via Tunstall, Burslem, Hanley, Stoke, Fenton and Longton.

I can't recall the exact timeline of events, the links got removed over various network reviews rather than in one go, but that Mainline route (the 24) and the similar 21 and 22 (estates beyond Tunstall to Trentham estates) allowed many journeys to be made without requiring a change of bus. Once that 'single simple change at Hanley' (ahem) was introduced, you built in a 5 minute time penalty with the hassle of changing vehicles (might or might not get a seat, interrupted magazine reading, wait on cold draughty old bus station etc). Now, as frequencies have been cut over time, you are looking at a wait of up to 30 minutes for your onward journey, in an admittedly better enclosed bus station.

It is quicker to get from London to Stoke-on-Trent by train than it is to get from the station to my house in Potteries suburbia.

I guess part of the problem is congestion which has been getting worse with a dearth of bus priority to aid reliability. No surprise that long established links have been broken. One aspect that has been mentioned is how effectively the town centres have been hollowed out. Tunstall is probably the best example that I can recall (though Longton isn't much nicer) where a car-centric set of retail developments have been created that are screened from the town centre and are difficult to serve by bus; Tunstall town centre is reduced to a truly depressing set Polski Skleps, Vape Shops and Greasy Spoons amongst the backdrop of a decaying high street.

 

[Simon75]

In addition to to the poor bus services, the Potteries/Newcastle have issues with drug addicts/alcoholics in the town centres, which puts people off.
In addition The local rag, The Sentinel don't help when they publicise timetable changes, with locals not understanding how bus services work

 

[bussnapperwm]

As an aside, Select have took over operating the 242 Stourbridge to Kinver service as of Mon 27th

 

[mjc]

One aspect that has been mentioned is how effectively the town centres have been hollowed out. Tunstall is probably the best example that I can recall (though Longton isn't much nicer) where a car-centric set of retail developments have been created that are screened from the town centre and are difficult to serve by bus

I can’t dispute that both Longton and Tunstall are a shadow of their former selves, but they’re fared much better than Fenton and Burslem. Would Tunstall and Longton have fallen even further without the draw of Asda/Tesco and associated developments? (Stoke’s not much better, probably saved this far by City Council staff being based there and spending a bit in town, but post-Covid that may well not return to previous extent).
I’m fairness you First (and D&G) the transport infrastructure is useless, the pointless positioning of both Stoke (the main station) and Longport stations make serving them difficult; you can run direct services but there’s nothing else there so of limited appeal to other traffic.
Maybe once the new Wolstanton-Festival Park link is open we could see some creative routing, routing more services around that link to serve both retail sites (and surrounding commercial/industrial) …

 

[Wyrleybart]

Had an appointment in Stafford this morning and observed a number of former Arriva buses in Select livery, and believe Select have taken over a lot of the work in the County town. Notably FJ06ZTE FJ06ZTF and FJ55BWD were three that I observed.

I am guessing Select and D&G / Chaserider have a relationship of some kind.

Never seen so many Solos as I have today in Cannock and Stafford. I assume these have migrated from busier areas as a multi cascade.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I can’t dispute that both Longton and Tunstall are a shadow of their former selves, but they’re fared much better than Fenton and Burslem. Would Tunstall and Longton have fallen even further without the draw of Asda/Tesco and associated developments? (Stoke’s not much better, probably saved this far by City Council staff being based there and spending a bit in town, but post-Covid that may well not return to previous extent).

Tunstall vs Burslem - it's a low bar. I note that they have indulged in a bit of red routeing in Fenton.... mind you, that's probably just to keep the cars moving because bus priority is certainly not a council priority

I am guessing Select and D&G / Chaserider have a relationship of some kind.

D&G/Chaserider is owned by Julian Peddle who also has a substantial shareholding in Select.

 

[Wyrleybart]

D&G/Chaserider is owned by Julian Peddle who also has a substantial shareholding in Select.

That explains it nicely. Thanks.

 

[cnjb8]

In addition to to the poor bus services, the Potteries/Newcastle have issues with drug addicts/alcoholics in the town centres, which puts people off.
In addition The local rag, The Sentinel don't help when they publicise timetable changes, with locals not understanding how bus services work

And we don’t have that in Nottingham?

 

[Wyrleybart]

Followed Chaserider No 2 which is an all white YX65 plate bus operating a No 74 through Cheslyn Hay. The scrolling rear destination panel read Bloxwich, Cheslyn Hay, Cannock and Stafford. I appreciate that Bloxwich is inside the PTE boundary, but is the first time since the Cannock line trains were cut back to Rugeley, that Bloxwich and Stafford have a regular passenger service ?

EDIT Yes, it is an hourly Walsall-Stafford service

http://www.chaserider.co.uk/assets/ck74_2021-06-21.pdf

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Stoke-on-Trent has a new public transport website. Featuring an interactive route map with links to pdf timetables.
Eee, back in t' good old days, there were far many more roads served by buses.
Could do with a bit more speed in the loading / refreshing department.
Stoke-on-Trent Bus Map

In the more depressing news department, D & G are to cut the number of journeys on route 16 Hanley to Buxton, including the entire Saturday service Leek to Buxton. Sunday services seem to have quietly slipped away without notice already.

 

[Simon75]

First Potteries routes 3,3A,4,4A are in the process of a permanent allocation of streelites, mainly due to Nitrogren Dioxide emissions reduction needed for buses going along Basford bank

 

[M60lad]

Not to sure how true this is but I've read on Social Media that apparently all of First South Yorkshire's allocation of MMC200s are supposedly being moved to First Potteries to replace elderly Solar's and Volvo B7 single decks in the fleet.