Amtrak Empire Builder Derailment

[12C]

Just seen reports on Facebook that the westbound Empire Builder has derailed in Montana. Not much information at the moment but looks like at least 1 Superliner on its side. Hopefully all involved ok.

 

[talltim]

The Empire Builder has derailed with at least one car in its side. Injuries but no fatalities reported so far
https://twitter.com/melissakxly4/status ... 71648?s=21

Getting reports of an Amtrak derailment near Havre, Montana. This is the Empire Builder that comes through Spokane on the way to Seattle. These pictures are from a passenger; working to get more info.

 

[TRAX]

At least three fatalities reported now, and more than fifty injured.

At least 3 killed when Amtrak train derails in Montana

As of Sunday evening, five people were still hospitalized in stable condition.

www.cbsnews.com

There are at least three confirmed fatalities, according to the Liberty County Sheriff.

"At approximately 4 p.m. MT, Empire Builder train 7/27 derailed operating near Joplin, MT. There are approximately 146 passengers and 16 crew members onboard, with injuries reported," Amtrak said in a statement.

According to Amtrak, seven of the train's 10 cars derailed.

 

[hexagon789]

Just seen reports on Facebook that the westbound Empire Builder has derailed in Montana. Not much information at the moment but looks like at least 1 Superliner on its side. Hopefully all involved ok.

3 dead and 51 injured sadly. Looks to be quite nasty - the whole (rearward) Portland section derailed from what I understand.

 

[stuartl]

3 dead and 51 injured sadly. Looks to be quite nasty - the whole (rearward) Portland section derailed from what I understand.

The thing I noticed was that the BBC report said 141 pasengers and 16 crew.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The thing I noticed was that the BBC report said 141 pasengers and 16 crew.

In the CBS report above, it quotes an Amtrak statement as "approximately 146 passengers and 16 crew".
We'll have to wait for the NTSB report, but I guess in a derailment like this, you wouldn't want to be in the top deck of a bi-level coach.
As far as I can see the accident is in bone-flat wheat country, and it would have been late afternoon if the westbound train was on time.
There's a road junction off US2 in Joplin, crossing the BNSF single track alongside the typical grain elevators and storage tanks (Streetview, 2009).
Co Rd 224 - Google Maps

 

[TRAX]

As far as I can see the accident is in bone-flat wheat country, and it would have been late afternoon if the westbound train was on time.

Yes, 4 pm local time, 11 pm GMT.

 

[Taunton]

Seems the westbound split the switch at the entrance to Buelow passing siding section, west of Joplin, Montana. Front seems to have made it through, rear cars derailed, with last three overturned on their sides - one still somewhat attached to those derailed ahead, two more separated some distance back.

A Superliner car would be awkward to access when on its side. The only doors are on the lower deck, in the centre, but the inter-car gangways are on the upper deck. Sure there are some emergency knock-out windows but it would still be difficult getting round inside.

16 crew would be typical on these multi-day Amtrak trains, with service crew car porters, diner waiters, diner cooks, lounge attendant etc, besides the operating crew. The same passenger service crew normally works right through the two days of the trip, with bunk accommodation at the back. The operating crew change at normal railway division points.

 

[XAM2175]

There are additional photographs in this article:

At least three killed in Amtrak train derailment in Montana

The cause of the accident was not immediately clear and federal safety authorities will investigate

www.theguardian.com

 

[185]

Incident looks from the location of structures visible in the media's images to have occurred at East Buelow which is a passing loop, 3mi beyond (west) of Joplin.

 

[hexagon789]

The thing I noticed was that the BBC report said 141 pasengers and 16 crew.

Yes, Amtrak seem to always have plenty of crew.

Seems the westbound split the switch at the entrance to Buelow passing siding section, west of Joplin, Montana. Front seems to have made it through, rear cars derailed, with last three overturned on their sides - one still somewhat attached to those derailed ahead, two more separated some distance back.

The derailment commenced before the switch. Speed is likely why the train finished in such a mess - the recorder registered 78.6mph immediately before derailing, within the 79 limit at the location.

8 cars partially or fully derailed of which 4 ended up on their side.

 

[Taunton]

The derailment commenced before the switch. Speed is likely why the train finished in such a mess - the recorder registered 78.6mph immediately before derailing, within the 79 limit at the location.

Not speedING though. That's a 79mph section, like many USA main lines - Federal maximum without cab signals. US locos all have cruise control nowadays which manages the speed very precisely. The engineer just sets it and sits back.

If the derailment started on plain line before the siding switch it's a typical accident where vehicles bump along the ballast until striking a switch.

 

[hexagon789]

Not speedING though. That's a 79mph section, like many USA main lines - Federal maximum without cab signals. US locos all have cruise control nowadays which manages the speed very precisely. The engineer just sets it and sits back.

If the derailment started on plain line before the siding switch it's a typical accident where vehicles bump along the ballast until striking a switch.

I never said it was speeding, rather I was pointing out that it was not excessive speed that caused the derailment but that the relatively high speed at the moment of derailment contributed to the end result.

Yes, exactly that.

 

[185]

....there are some emergency knock-out windows but it would still be difficult getting round inside.

Seem to recall all the Superliner bedrooms and roomettes have those pull-release rubber seal windows in every room, not sure about the restaurant, seated or viewing cars.

 

[AlterEgo]

Seem to recall all the Superliner bedrooms and roomettes have those pull-release rubber seal windows in every room, not sure about the restaurant, seated or viewing cars.

It looks like the lounge (observation) car is the one on its side. Worse, half the seats face the windows in that car, so any impact would be face first.

 

[edwin_m]

Seem to recall all the Superliner bedrooms and roomettes have those pull-release rubber seal windows in every room, not sure about the restaurant, seated or viewing cars.

UK thinking is that lack of containment through windows is something that makes accidents more severe, with Ufton Nervet and the Croydon tram overturning being examples where the casualties would most likely have been fewer if all windows had been of the laminated type that generally don't disintegrate totally. As part of some RSSB research, the fire brigade confirmed they have no problem getting into an overturned train if they need to.

Particularly with these vehicles not having on-board fuel sources, the balance of risk may well be that it's safer to be contained within the train by windows that stay in place during the accident, even at the cost of taking a bit longer to get out afterwards.

 

[ac6000cw]

Seem to recall all the Superliner bedrooms and roomettes have those pull-release rubber seal windows in every room, not sure about the restaurant, seated or viewing cars.

It's been too long since I last traveled in one to remember the details, but AFAIK all Superliner cars have the emergency escape pull-release windows. Looking at photos of the inside of a lounge car, it looks like one half of many of the windows have the emergency release handles (the windows are vertically split into left/right halves). I would expect the coaches (seated vehicles) and dining cars to be much the same.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Sep 2021 ==

UPDATE:

An NTSB officer has confirmed (to the media) that the derailment started before the train reached the siding (passing loop) switch, and that the train was travelling below the line speed limit of 79 mph. See https://www.trains.com/trn/news-rev...traveling-under-speed-limit-at-time-of-crash/

The line re-opened to traffic on Tuesday.