Where are TfW's Class 158/175 units?

[Sowerby01]

Here in North Wales we are suffering a reduced service from TfW with more holiday makers and resulting in late trains. All of a sudden 153s appear. Can anyone tell me where all the 158/175s have gone? Some do seem to be parked up at Chester for hours at end to run a return service.

 

[sd0733]

There is 1 153 booked as a strengthening unit on 2 Chester to Holyhead workings, they've been booked for that for months.
Everything else is 158, 175 or Mk4, all of which are in service (barring faults, refurbs, maintenance etc).
158s and 175s are spread pretty thinly. 158s covering Birmingham to Cambrian, which has to be a.priority due to being the only units able to run to.Aberystwth and Pwllheli. 175s are the mainstay of South Wales-Manchester and also the recently reintroduced North Wales to Cardiff runs barring those which are mk4s

 

[tomuk]

There is 1 153 booked as a strengthening unit on 2 Chester to Holyhead workings, they've been booked for that for months.
Everything else is 158, 175 or Mk4, all of which are in service (barring faults, refurbs, maintenance etc).
158s and 175s are spread pretty thinly. 158s covering Birmingham to Cambrian, which has to be a.priority due to being the only units able to run to.Aberystwth and Pwllheli. 175s are the mainstay of South Wales-Manchester and also the recently reintroduced North Wales to Cardiff runs barring those which are mk4s

The 158s and 175s aren't in Shrewsbury either. Loads of Manchester- South Wales services are being run with 150s and 153s. On the Cambrian passengers are being forced to change trains at Shrewsbury with 150s or 153s in part or holly replacing 158s between Shrewsbury and Birmingham.

 

[DanNCL]

175005 was in the bay platform at Llandudno Junction for most of the day. Nothing wrong with the unit - a shortage of staff caused most of the Llandudno Junction - Llandudno shuttles to be cancelled today.

Poor decisions like this, when that unit could instead have strengthened another diagram, won’t help with the overcrowding situation.

On a more positive note, the 15:02 from Wrexham to Chester today which was advertised as being short formed turned up with the booked 4 coaches, a huge relief as I knew my chances of getting a seat if it was a single 2 car unit were virtually nil!

 

[PHILIPE]

There may be more stopped than usual because of the aftermath social distancing causing a backlog of repairs. There are still loads of 175s at Shrewsbury with perhaps no more than2, if 2, a day covered by 150s or 153s.

 

[sd0733]

The 158s and 175s aren't in Shrewsbury either. Loads of Manchester- South Wales services are being run with 150s and 153s. On the Cambrian passengers are being forced to change trains at Shrewsbury with 150s or 153s in part or holly replacing 158s between Shrewsbury and

Whilst not uncommon are relatively rare with 1 or 2 diagrams a day max pary on the Manchesters, its weeks since I've worked anything other than a 175 to Manchester and not seen many 15x either. Generally they are swapped out at Cardiff if it is a 15 due to toilet faults or fuel running low due to swaps and put back onto diagram at the earliest chance.

 

[wobman]

175005 was in the bay platform at Llandudno Junction for most of the day. Nothing wrong with the unit - a shortage of staff caused most of the Llandudno Junction - Llandudno shuttles to be cancelled today.

Poor decisions like this, when that unit could instead have strengthened another diagram, won’t help with the overcrowding situation.

On a more positive note, the 15:02 from Wrexham to Chester today which was advertised as being short formed turned up with the booked 4 coaches, a huge relief as I knew my chances of getting a seat if it was a single 2 car unit were virtually nil!

Things like short notice sickness happen and cause the cancellation of services, there's lots of factors going on throughout the day.

 

[DanNCL]

Things like short notice sickness happen and cause the cancellation of services, there's lots of factors going on throughout the day.

Indeed and I wasn’t suggesting the services shouldn’t have been cancelled, but there would have been better uses of the unit than having it idle for most of the day.

 

[43096]

Indeed and I wasn’t suggesting the services shouldn’t have been cancelled, but there would have been better uses of the unit than having it idle for most of the day.

If there’s a shortage of staff, who is going to move it!? You’ve also got to get it back to wherever it would have finished to avoid problems the following day.

 

[DanNCL]

If there’s a shortage of staff, who is going to move it!? You’ve also got to get it back to wherever it would have finished to avoid problems the following day.

If you attach it to another diagram (which is what I was suggesting) then it’s moved by the same people working the diagram the unit is strengthening. I thought that was obvious.

 

[Envoy]

Shrewsbury to Newport is closed today and buses are being used.

 

[sd0733]

If you attach it to another diagram (which is what I was suggesting) then it’s moved by the same people working the diagram the unit is strengthening. I thought that was obvious.

It would be needed back at Junction to restart working when there was crew available again.
Also ad-hoc 175 strengthening on the coast isnt particularly simple due to the 158 and mk3 diagrams now. So it may have been a necessity to put It out the way in the bay and once it's in there it does need a driver to move it to strengthen anything.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Sep 2021 ==

Shrewsbury to Newport is closed today and buses are being used.

That's engineering works, on for a few weekends at various places.

 

[PHILIPE]

Shrewsbury to Newport is closed today and buses are being used.

Got it's own thread

www.railforums.co.uk/threads/weekend-closures-between-shrewsbury-and-newport.222558/

 

[43096]

If you attach it to another diagram (which is what I was suggesting) then it’s moved by the same people working the diagram the unit is strengthening. I thought that was obvious.

You haven't addressed how you get it back again. And if it's sat in the bay shut down and you want to attach it to something, who is going to prep it? Are you happy putting a 20/30min delay into something else as a result? And if it's in the bay at Ludo Jct and you want it on platform 1 or 3 to attach it to something, who moves it?

You really haven't thought it through.

 

[wobman]

You haven't addressed how you get it back again. And if it's sat in the bay shut down and you want to attach it to something, who is going to prep it? Are you happy putting a 20/30min delay into something else as a result? And if it's in the bay at Ludo Jct and you want it on platform 1 or 3 to attach it to something, who moves it?

You really haven't thought it through.

Some people have a very simplistic view of railway operations, I'm glad some do actually understand the processes involved.

 

[Caaardiff]

Under the new timetable the 175 and 158 fleet is being pushed hard to maximum possible levels, allowing for scheduled maintenance. That's because of the fleet shortage across the whole network.
If a 158 or 175 then has problems while out, or get stopped overnight, that will likely result in a short formation, or being subbed by a 150 or 2 153's (Unless on the Cambrian).
So in answer to the OP question. They haven't gone anywhere, the 158's are still working Holyhead - Birmingham, Cambrian and now 2 are working the Pembroke Dock line. 175's are still working North Wales-Chester-Manchester and Marches.
In fact there's probably more capacity under the new timetable as the previous covid timetable because of the Mk4's running North - South. The Mk4's have probably replace a couple of 175's along the North Wales Coast because of the Holyheads-Cardiffs they are now working, which were previously 175's Holyhead - Shrewsbury.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Sep 2021 ==

If you attach it to another diagram (which is what I was suggesting) then it’s moved by the same people working the diagram the unit is strengthening. I thought that was obvious.

If there's cancellations due to train crew, the unit might be needed for later on in the day. Sounds like that unit was working Llandudno - Llandudno Junction runs. There may only be a couple of runs cancelled due to train crew. How are you planning on getting the unit back for the later runs that do have train crew? It's not as simple (and obvious) as you may think.

 

[childwallblues]

175105 is operating the Chester to Liverpool Lime Street service today. 175s are quite normal on this service.

 

[PHILIPE]

175105 is operating the Chester to Liverpool Lime Street service today. 175s are quite normal on this service.

It is booked for a 175. Since the 153s started working in the north it had been worked a pair but early in the Summer a 175 was made available to enable the 153s to be used for North Wales Coast strengthening.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Sep 2021 ==

Under the new timetable the 175 and 158 fleet is being pushed hard to maximum possible levels, allowing for scheduled maintenance. That's because of the fleet shortage across the whole network.
If a 158 or 175 then has problems while out, or get stopped overnight, that will likely result in a short formation, or being subbed by a 150 or 2 153's (Unless on the Cambrian).
So in answer to the OP question. They haven't gone anywhere, the 158's are still working Holyhead - Birmingham, Cambrian and now 2 are working the Pembroke Dock line. 175's are still working North Wales-Chester-Manchester and Marches.
In fact there's probably more capacity under the new timetable as the previous covid timetable because of the Mk4's running North - South. The Mk4's have probably replace a couple of 175's along the North Wales Coast because of the Holyheads-Cardiffs they are now working, which were previously 175's Holyhead - Shrewsbury.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Sep 2021 ==

Thank you for that very informative update. At the moment for the Timetable running currently from September to December, there should be a couple of 158s thrown up as a result of the Barmouth Bridge work.

 

[Caaardiff]

Thank you for that very informative update. At the moment for the Timetable running currently from September to December, there should be a couple of 158s thrown up as a result of the Barmouth Bridge work.

I think that is why there's a couple working Pembroke Dock, to free up 150s for the extra services on the Taff side lines. What will happen to when Barmouth Bridge reopens is anyone's guess!

 

[DanNCL]

It would be needed back at Junction to restart working when there was crew available again.
Also ad-hoc 175 strengthening on the coast isnt particularly simple due to the 158 and mk3 diagrams now. So it may have been a necessity to put It out the way in the bay and once it's in there it does need a driver to move it to strengthen anything.

I recognise it isn’t the simplest of tasks, but I’m sure there’d have been something they could have done with it more useful than parking it up an a bay. As to what that may be, I am not certain, but I struggle to believe that there seriously wasn’t any more useful alternative to dumping it in the bay platform for several hours.

Some people have a very simplistic view of railway operations, I'm glad some do actually understand the processes involved.

I don’t have a “very simplistic” view of railway operations. I have the view that they need to do much more for the customers than they currently do. Whilst difficult operational decisions obviously have to be taken, having working carriages sat idle for several hours whilst other services are short formed is not a good use of available resources.

If there's cancellations due to train crew, the unit might be needed for later on in the day. Sounds like that unit was working Llandudno - Llandudno Junction runs. There may only be a couple of runs cancelled due to train crew. How are you planning on getting the unit back for the later runs that do have train crew? It's not as simple (and obvious) as you may think.

The shuttles were replaced by buses for most of the day, and from what I can see the unit in question was left in the bay for 5 hours. If it was just one or two trips cancelled I’d have understood leaving it in the bay during that time but for 5 hours it provides an incredibly poor impression to the ordinary travelling public who will have little-no understanding of the operational restrictions of the railway whatsoever.

 

[PHILIPE]

I recognise it isn’t the simplest of tasks, but I’m sure there’d have been something they could have done with it more useful than parking it up an a bay. As to what that may be, I am not certain, but I struggle to believe that there seriously wasn’t any more useful alternative to dumping it in the bay platform for several hours.

Following problems in using it which have been pointed out to you, have you any practical suggestions of your own as to what it could have worked

 

[DanNCL]

Following problems in using it which have been pointed out to you, have you any practical suggestions of your own as to what it could have worked

Not at the present time, and seeing as it’s been and gone now I don’t see the point in going out of my way to come up with one now, but had I thought of it yesterday I definitely would have tried to come up with practical alternative suggestions.

 

[30907]

The shuttles were replaced by buses for most of the day, and from what I can see the unit in question was left in the bay for 5 hours. If it was just one or two trips cancelled I’d have understood leaving it in the bay during that time but for 5 hours it provides an incredibly poor impression to the ordinary travelling public who will have little-no understanding of the operational restrictions of the railway whatsoever.

But if you tell them "cancelled owing to staff sickness" then most people will make the obvious deduction. They may also be thinking, "surely my train should have more coaches" but they won't necessarily connect (couple?) the two.

....the 158/175s....Some do seem to be parked up at Chester for hours at end to run a return service.

This week's Branch Line News reports said units being used ad hoc for relief workings for Chester Races.
.

 

[DanNCL]

But if you tell them "cancelled owing to staff sickness" then most people will make the obvious deduction. They may also be thinking, "surely my train should have more coaches" but they won't necessarily connect (couple?) the two.

The advertised reason to customers was “a resource issue”. Although sickness was the reason for the cancellations this wasn’t communicated by TFW to the public.

 

[wobman]

The advertised reason to customers was “a resource issue”. Although sickness was the reason for the cancellations this wasn’t communicated by TFW to the public.

Sickness of traincrew is a resource issue though, this is because resources can't put staff on the job. Using a general term is much easier, ATW used the unavailability of staff and staff were getting confronted by angry passengers.

 

[PHILIPE]

The advertised reason to customers was “a resource issue”. Although sickness was the reason for the cancellations this wasn’t communicated by TFW to the public.

The

No. They don't now. They use this silly Resource jargon

 

[DanNCL]

The

No. They don't now. They use this silly Resource jargon

Indeed. So when the public hear about cancellations for “resource issues” then see a train dumped in a bay platform going nowhere it gives the impression that the company simply can’t be bothered. It needs much better communications from TFW.

 

[PHILIPE]

Indeed. So when the public hear about cancellations for “resource issues” then see a train dumped in a bay platform going nowhere it gives the impression that the company simply can’t be bothered. It needs much better communications from TFW.

I don't suppose the public take a blind bit of notice of a unit parked in a bay

 

[wobman]

I don't suppose the public take a blind bit of notice of a unit parked in a bay

I agree 1000%

 

[tomuk]

I don't suppose the public take a blind bit of notice of a unit parked in a bay

The only time I've seen the public moan about units parked up was leaving Shrewsbury on a rammed ATW Cosford Airshow special with Abbey Foregate Depot being full of LM 170s on a Sunday.