Is A 153 Slowing Down A 175?

[Envoy]

I see that a 153 is leading a 3 coach 175 on the Milford Haven to Manchester run this morning and that this train is losing time. Surely, having a 153 attached to a train that can do 100mph is going to slow this service down and thus result in people missing connections?

Realtime Trains - 1W54 0702 Milford Haven to Manchester Piccadilly

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Bletchleyite]

Something has gone wrong there as that is physically impossible, they have different couplers.

If you couple a 153 to a 158 it does reduce the speed to 75mph, though.

Suspect it's gone forward as the pair of 153s and is thus losing time.

 

[fgwrich]

I see that a 153 is leading a 3 coach 175 on the Milford Haven to Manchester run this morning and that this train is losing time. Surely, having a 153 attached to a train that can do 100mph is going to slow this service down and thus result in people missing connections?

Realtime Trains - 1W54 0702 Milford Haven to Manchester Piccadilly

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

That’ll be a RTT error as you cannot physically couple a 153 to a 175 (without an emergency coupler adapter). The 153 has a BSI coupler while the 175 is a Scharfenberg.

 

[Tynwald]

And they are completly incompatible MU wise. For starters 175 is 110v control, a 153 is 24v.

 

[Watershed]

TRUST says the 153s were swapped for a 175 at Cardiff, although a dwell of 3 minutes seems unlikely if so.

Still, a 153 will lose quite a lot of time on a 175 timed run, certainly on the higher speed sections once you're past Port Talbot or Bridgend, so much so that you're likely to need to terminate at Crewe a lot of the time (turning around at Wilmslow would probably work too, but TfW don't seem to go for that).

 

[Efini92]

Something has gone wrong there as that is physically impossible, they have different couplers.

If you couple a 153 to a 158 it does reduce the speed to 75mph, though.

Suspect it's gone forward as the pair of 153s and is thus losing time.

I’m sure someone has had a go at it at some point.
153’s are painfully slow, the brakes take an age to release compared to the other sprinters ( excluding 155’s ).

 

[Tynwald]

Somebody did attempt to couple a 175 to a 150 many years ago. Both units suffered damage.

 

[Neptune]

I’m sure someone has had a go at it at some point.
153’s are painfully slow, the brakes take an age to release compared to the other sprinters ( excluding 155’s ).

Never had an issue with 155 brake release.

 

[Envoy]

RTT has changed the picture to now show it as a 3 car 175 - but still running 19 minutes late at Moreton.

 

[Efini92]

Never had an issue with 155 brake release.

Did you not find from 1 bar to release it was really slow?

 

[Neptune]

Not especially bad compared to a 153.

 

[quattromatt]

Never had an issue with 155 brake release.

Taking power took an age i seem to remember.

 

[PHILIPE]

I see that a 153 is leading a 3 coach 175 on the Milford Haven to Manchester run this morning and that this train is losing time. Surely, having a 153 attached to a train that can do 100mph is going to slow this service down and thus result in people missing connections?

Realtime Trains - 1W54 0702 Milford Haven to Manchester Piccadilly

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

It wouldn't slow it down. It possibly wouldn't go at all. This happens when the unit is changed en route for some reason. As to the reason the original one often stays in situ unless it has a further allocation or somebody manually alters it. Perhaps somebody more knowledgeable on the matter could explain further.

 

[Bow Fell]

I suspect it’s just the way RTT deals with the information.

In Genius, you would allocate the 153 to all journey legs it’s working on the diagram cycle and then allocate the 175 to the same diagram but just copy and paste the journey legs that it is working.

In Genius you have two different columns (well how I have it setup you do anyway) one is your resources (the units themselves) the other is the diagrams (which are all the diagram numbers, showing the work content).

So the parts of CH719 diagram allocated to the 153 will have been copy and pasted to the 153 and the parts of CH719 allocated to the 175 will have been copy and pasted over, unless there is some overlap, and the two units have been allocated to the same journey leg, then it should show correct in all railway systems anyway.

 

[Hardcastle]

Real time trains shows units swaps at Cardiff.

 

[Efini92]

Taking power took an age i seem to remember.

And when they got going they struggled to pull the skin off a rice pudding.

 

[GC class B1]

I’m sure someone has had a go at it at some point.
153’s are painfully slow, the brakes take an age to release compared to the other sprinters ( excluding 155’s ).

The slow brake release on Class 153 is well known and is the result of the poor brake system design when they were converted from class 155.

 

[Efini92]

The slow brake release on Class 153 is well known and is the result of the poor brake system design when they were converted from class 155.

155 produced the same problem when worked in multi with other sprinters and pacers.

 

[Bikeman78]

155 produced the same problem when worked in multi with other sprinters and pacers.

Yes I remember going on 142+153 combinations in the final weeks of the 142s. Engines would rev up and the 142 would drag the 153 along with the brakes squealing.

 

[skyhigh]

155 produced the same problem when worked in multi with other sprinters and pacers.

There was a temporary ban on 15x+153s last autumn on Northern due to the way the 153s were constantly getting square wheels by being dragged along in slippy conditions

 

[Efini92]

There was a temporary ban on 15x+153s last autumn on Northern due to the way the 153s were constantly getting square wheels by being dragged along in slippy conditions

I thought it was because the derogation on the sanders had expired.

 

[TrainTrackJack]

When 153s and 170s were coupled together on the Birmingham - Hereford line the journey time would always be extended as the 153 would hold back the 170 on the 80/90/100mph sections of the line, and the 153s constantly got flats from the 170 dragging them off while the brakes were still releasing.

 

[Spartacus]

Most of the time lost was down to a 5mph ESR somewhere between Whitland and Carmarthen, which ended up putting 1W54 behind a Taunton service from Cardiff, which itself lost time. The set swap at Cardiff was done quite smartly with the 175 being in the platform ahead of the 153 before it arrived, so a simple matter of transferring the (probably few) through passengers across.

There was a time when 153s on the Settle Carlisle weren't a stranger with higher speeds coming back on the Aire Valley when being dragged by a 158. It happened with a Pacer too, which didn't fare half as well as the 153s.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Most of the time lost was down to a 5mph ESR somewhere between Whitland and Carmarthen, which ended up putting 1W54 behind a Taunton service from Cardiff, which itself lost time. The set swap at Cardiff was done quite smartly with the 175 being in the platform ahead of the 153 before it arrived, so a simple matter of transferring the (probably few) through passengers across.

There was a time when 153s on the Settle Carlisle weren't a stranger with higher speeds coming back on the Aire Valley when being dragged by a 158. It happened with a Pacer too, which didn't fare half as well as the 153s.

From what I hear, in the pre-"black box" days it was not an infrequent occurrence for a 75mph trailing unit to be dragged overspeed by a 158.

 

[Bletchleyite]

From what I hear, in the pre-"black box" days it was not an infrequent occurrence for a 75mph trailing unit to be dragged overspeed by a 158.

I have certainly been on a 142 that was bouncing around at just a bit more than 75 on the Hope Valley.

 

[superalbs]

Somebody did attempt to couple a 175 to a 150 many years ago. Both units suffered damage.

Why did they do that?

 

[Efini92]

I have certainly been on a 142 that was bouncing around at just a bit more than 75 on the Hope Valley.

I managed 90 once after going over boars head. There was 3 sets though. It was certainly very bouncy.

 

[alexl92]

Im guessing that dragging a 153 at 90 behind a 158 would not do the 153 any favours?

 

[Efini92]

Im guessing that dragging a 153 at 90 behind a 158 would not do the 153 any favours?

I doubt it would do that much tbh. In the days before black boxes sprinters regularly went over 75

 

[dk1]

Im guessing that dragging a 153 at 90 behind a 158 would not do the 153 any favours?

A 153 will happily cruise along at around 87mph on its own.