FGW Mk3 HST vehicles - the 425XXs being the former Buffet and TF vehicles converted to standard class between 2012 and 2014, the TCs being the Trailer Composite vehicles converted from Trailer Firsts across 2015. I cant remember how much both projects costs but both of course received new interiors which could have been in part re-used elsewhere. Unfortunately the railway remains rather wasteful in this regard, but that's for another topic.
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Autumn refresh for GWR Class 165/166 Turbos
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As I was finishing work this afternoon, 165122 was loaded & ready to take a road trip to Wolverton. I bet the Allelys drivers are glad of the all axle steering on those whopping big trailers!!
I'm surprised a 2 car 165 has been sent away first (equally by road!), but at least it's some signs of progress at last. I just hope Wolverton actually do a good job with these, as I've seen (and heard of) some less good results from there.
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
I think all Wolverton moves travel by road. I'm confused here as 165s have been quoted as going in but the thread refers to 166s
Should be rail moves (at least from Reading, can’t speak for the Marsh). 165122 should have moved by rail but there was some sort of issue on the Network Rail side of things so a short notice.com road move was arranged. The issue should be (allegedly) sorted by the time the next moves are due.
Although the title does specify 166, the OP does mention GWR turbos in general. Anyhoo a refresh is why 122 is Wolverton bound!
cactustwirly
Established Member
I'd imagine it's just repainting off the inside and new seat covers and flooring for the 2 cars. They'll be staying in Reading for primarily branch work so the existing seats are adequate as they are
Unless the original plan has changed - they were supposed to be split between Bristol and Reading. Reading for the branches and Bristol for the Cardiff - Portsmouth’s with the 166s, plus the other Bristol radial services (Weymouth / Westbury / Gloucester etc)
Snow1964
Established Member
If 10 years is the expected further usage timescale then a quick and basic facelift is rather insufficient. Although I don’t think I have ever seen anyone quote a published withdrawal date which could mean the 10 years is guesswork.
If SWR can retraction 455s for 10 years extra service, then it is unfortunate if GWR keep the noisy, Smoky, and vibration inducing existing engines. But new engines mean better emissions which might put them off.
The DfT have since reversed that decision, the 2+2 seating has now been given the go-ahead should GWR desire. (It's hidden deep inside one of those 100+ page PDFs that came out recently)
Mikey C
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The 165s and 166s are newer than the Sprinters, they have plenty of life left in them. The Chiltern ones are in excellent condition
I imagine reengining old DMUs is quite tricky these days, with the advance in technology making a straight replacement very difficult. Don't many 158s have the same engine as the Turbos?
Wilts Wanderer
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What would be better would be a large order of Stadler units in a similar vein to the Greater Anglia fleet. This neatly gets around the limited medium-long term prospects of new diesel units as they can be easily converted to straight-out EMUs, or remain in a flexible bi-mode configuration if the wires aren’t covering all possible routes.
cactustwirly
Established Member
I was meaning the Reading based 2 cars. I don't see GWR/DfT spending on 2+2 when it isn't needed for them.
Imagine the 166s will get a different refurbishment with 2+2
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Though there are challenges. The reason Chiltern have a mixed 2+2 and 3+2 layout in their 165s isn't an abortive First Class, it is because to do 2+2 throughout you have to move some above floor kit. Nothing is impossible but it would be costly.
And all those nice Grammers have been binned, too
158747
Member
158815 - 158862 have the same Perkins engines as the Turbos.
Indeed, they were once upon a time all concentrated on Cardiff Canton up until the ATW Franchise. They have since now found themselves spread out across three different TOCs (TFW have the bulk share, while Northern and EMR have the others).
Not quite - Canton had 158815-158842 and later 158843. 158843-158862 were initially Norwich then Tyseley units.
Ah, thanks for clearing that up. What confused me was a number of the Tyseley units laterally working for Arriva Trains Wales (I should have realised as they were in Central Trains livery), presumably outsted from the Central Franchise after the arrival of the Turbostars.
Of those 846, 847, 852 and 854 went back to Central Trains in 2005 and ended up with EMT (joined 856, 857, 858 and 862 which never left Tyseley) and the rest ended up with Northern.
They were part of the creation of Wales and Borders and were displaced when TPE stopped using 175s which were returned to the Wales franchise.
RailWonderer
Established Member
This is going speculative, but the Pennine corridor Manchester - York is a candidate for electrification and doing so could displace a good number of 185s with bi-modes.
When the 455s and 456s go for scrap there will be a ton of nice Grammar seats in there that would only need new seat covers...Though there are challenges. The reason Chiltern have a mixed 2+2 and 3+2 layout in their 165s isn't an abortive First Class, it is because to do 2+2 throughout you have to move some above floor kit. Nothing is impossible but it would be costly.
And all those nice Grammers have been binned, too
Mikey C
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I'd always wondered why they had that mixed seating layout!
Sitting in it as I type. Seats look ok but are still as cramped as ever. Fogged up window, strange rattle somewhere up towards the ceiling . At least the air- con appears to be working. PIS one station behind reality….
This seems a sensible suggestion; there is only the UAT on the near-identical three car 165s in the fleet, after all. The addition of extra luggage racks, cycle space or indeed just additional seats would presumably all be workable during the refurb.
Mike Machin
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I think if the expectation is to maintain the class 165/166 fleet on the Solent - Bristol/Cardiff axis for a further ten years, there will be no need for a replacement as most of the longer-distance travellers will have deserted the route by then. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I have given up on the train altogether as my car offers a far more relaxing 21st-Century environment in which to travel. Admittedly I can't work whilst driving, but that is impossible on the train too with 2+3 seating, no tables and the infernal racket from these fume-infested, superannuated 20th Century contraptions.
And, it's not just me! Two of my clients who regularly used the train several times a week between Romsey and Bristol TM have now also given-up on the train completely as it is just so unpleasant and have migrated back to the comfort and serenity of their own cars. The knock-on effect should also be considered, as they are now also using their cars for other journeys they once undertook by rail, for example from Southampton Parkway to Birmingham International. Once people break the 'train habbit', it's very difficult to win them back.
And, it's not just me! Two of my clients who regularly used the train several times a week between Romsey and Bristol TM have now also given-up on the train completely as it is just so unpleasant and have migrated back to the comfort and serenity of their own cars. The knock-on effect should also be considered, as they are now also using their cars for other journeys they once undertook by rail, for example from Southampton Parkway to Birmingham International. Once people break the 'train habbit', it's very difficult to win them back.
158/9s have larger fuel tanks, which is another reason they’re more suitable for long distances.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
3+2 is not ideal, but you can work with a laptop on your knee in a bay if lightly loaded, I've done it many times. If heavily loaded the extra seating is probably useful.
Otherwise these are basically doors-at-thirds 158s, so I don't get the strength of your objection compared to, er, 158s.
There is no excuse for the state of the tables. Class 377 tables are still in mint condition despite running around south London. Like I say the way they were sprayed in vile first group blue is probably the reason for their sorry state. A clean white or wood effect is preferable.
Sadly there are only two full sized tables in standard whereas when built that area had six
Sadly there are only two full sized tables in standard whereas when built that area had six
To be pedantic, there were only ever five tables in standard class on a class 166. As built. the area where the tip up seats was empty and intended for a catering trolley. The tip-up seats were added about half way through the build and retro fitted to the earlier units.
HamworthyGoods
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It’s also worth nothing from the forthcoming December timetable change the 2 car 165 fleet becomes one common fleet of 20 units and is no longer split between Reading and Bristol allocations.
There’s a daily swapover move at Worcester Foregate Street every morning with a train arriving from Gloucester direction running back in the Oxford direction
Realtime Trains | Departures from Worcester Foregate Street around 0640 on 16/12/2021
Train information at Worcester Foregate Street around 0640 on 16/12/2021. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
Then at Worcester Shrub Hill a unit from the Oxford direction after a shunt to the Long Siding returns on a working towards Gloucester.
Realtime Trains | Departures from Worcester Shrub Hill around 0610 on 16/12/2021
Train information at Worcester Shrub Hill around 0610 on 16/12/2021. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
There's also an intention for 769s to start displacing some sets further towards Bristol, although that is dependent on how successful that scheme goes.
southern442
Established Member
Last time I was on a turbo was Cosham to Southampton, The aircon was broken in the coach I was in, and the guard tried to open the hopper windows but they were jammed. She mumbled something about how knackered all the trains on that line were, and said that one of the other coaches had slightly better aircon. I wasn't too hot so I stayed put, but then when we were just about to depart Fareham, the ear-splitting door close beeps carried on going after the doors had closed and the train had left, and I ended up getting the guard, and it wasn't until about Woolston that the issue was sorted, but the door was locked out of use.
By contrast I was on a 158 from Barnham to Southampton yesterday, aircon was just right, and although we were held up by a late stopper, the ambiance inside those units is so lovely that I didn't mind too much. The only thing, of course, is that loading and unloading on a 2-car 158 takes an eternity!
By contrast I was on a 158 from Barnham to Southampton yesterday, aircon was just right, and although we were held up by a late stopper, the ambiance inside those units is so lovely that I didn't mind too much. The only thing, of course, is that loading and unloading on a 2-car 158 takes an eternity!
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