New First Capital Connect Announcements

[Aictos]

Hertford had nothing advising why trains were delayed other then Sarah apologising on behalf of FCC for the inconvenience caused and to listen to announcements saying repeating the same!!!

One thing is for sure though, someone ought to to explain why the decision was taken to spend a fair amount of money on Funkwerk only to replace it all with LICC and also installing screens that were unfit for purpose only to having to then replace them!

If money can be thrown away like this surely a much better system could have been introduced?

 

[jon0844]

At Finsbury Park, which is still announcing everything on every platform (most annoying) but only announces your approaching train once (or not at all if it's apologising for the delay to a train on another platform) - has now got an additional message on the summary departure VDUs - 'No 1st class on this train'.

This was said on a 6-car servie to Hertford North, so clearly 313s don't have first class on them - but I wasn't sure if they were going to start putting this on every train and if they do, what will they do on services that are declassified? To be honest, it seems a rather silly message. I can only imagine that they're trying to copy what happens on TL, where the position of first class is announced as it can be at one end or the other, or both. It's more of a mess on FCC as they have trains with front/end, middle (but as in 2nd or 3rd coach), or one end (but some 321s are in reverse, so it's the opposite end). I'd like to see them get the information system to get that right, rather than simply give incorrect information.

And, I must repeat again, FCC has to fix this delay problem that has existed for at least a year. It is making the system apologise for delayed trains when everyone has seen it arrive, stop, pick people up and depart. A minute or two later, FCC apologises for the delay. With all these apologies, it's no surprise that everyone is thinking FCC can't run a train service - yet the trains are often on time. I'm regularly told the 0924 HAT-KGX is delayed, and it's put below the 0927 to Moorgate, then it turns up at 0924 or 0925. Naturally, people then think it's the Moorgate train. Gateline staff at Hatfield have been out shouting down the platform recently to tell people when the trains have 'swapped', which is hardly their job (and they can't always do it as they've got their main job to do).

 

[Jordy]

Finsbury Park seemed to be working reasonably well yesterday, 4 trains arrived within around 30 seconds of each other and it managed to announce them all. Gave a delay reason of "Signalling Problems" for a Kings Cross service too.

The only slightly odd thing is the wording of the fast train announcements: "The train now approaching platform two does not stop here, does not stop here, platform two" followed by a long gap, then - as the train is pretty much at the platform "The train now approaching platform two does not stop here, please stand well clear of the edge of platform two" - odd!

 

[jon0844]

It's been saying that for some time. It does sound silly - especially when it says that 20-30 seconds before the one that usually starts at the exact time the train flies through (so you can't hear it).

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=520948&postcount=94

Update: Photos...

- When the screen first went in at Old Street, showing detailed information like how many coaches (useful given how there's a separate 3 and 6 car stop).

- What we now have (including a somewhat random comment for the first train, that didn't change). Nicer colours though, even if you now have to guess how long the train is going to be.

- Showing no 1st class service on a 313-run train which would never have first class (not possible) and shouldn't Comment be changed to 'Expected'? Do they have anyone in quality control?

- An old photo showing when they like to make up fictitious stopping patterns, like trains to King's Cross via Old Street and now Essex Road via King's Cross.

My train to Old Street this morning was early, so sat at Finsbury Park for nearly 3 minutes. In that time, there was no announcement for the train (maybe one before it arrived, but nothing when it's actually there) but I did get two announcements for platform 5 and 6, and the 'does not stop here, does not stop here' one for platform 3. Do FCC really think it's okay to announce a train just once? Do they not realise that when Phil said 'Finsbury Park. This is Finsbury Park...' on the platform when the train was there, you could hear it from the train - which given 313s and 321s have no information systems (and others are often turned off), it's quite useful for the smaller stations - especially at night - so you actually know where you are.

 

[philjo]

I heard a platform alteration being announced at WGC this morning saying that the 05:40 to Kings Cross would now depart from platform 2.
Only problem with this - it was 07:39 when I heard it! (I was on the 07:42 waiting time at platform 2)

 

[caliwag]

I have a driver mate who works for FCC who is very keen to try out Count Arthur Strong style on-train announcements...listen out.

 

[philjo]

I noticed the screen on platform 1 at Hatfield this morning had reverted to showing the url for the WAGN website!

At Letchworth, the booking hall screen correctly said the fast train was running 7 minutes late. The monitors on the platform said this service was "on time" & no announcements on the platform this morning (though some may see this as an improvement!)

 

[Aictos]

One passenger asked me yesterday if their train was on time or late as the screen in the booking hall was showing on time but the screen on the platform was correctly showing it as a delay.

 

[jon0844]

And, thanks to the lack of announcements at Finsbury Park my delayed service from Hatfield to King's Cross (which WAS announced for the first time with a delay reason at Hatfield; a problem at a level crossing) came in to Finsbury Park just before an 8-car service service to King's Cross arrived on platform 2.

Sadly, this meant a large number of people sprinted over from a KGX service to ANOTHER KGX service, having assumed it was a Moorgate train. I bet they were well chuffed when the train left and they heard the 'The next station will be London King's Cross where this train terminates'.

This is proof that people can't recognise the difference between a 313 and a 317, and announcements are necessary for trains on platforms - not just those approaching.

---

Thursday 25 Nov; Yet more proof of how crap the current system is.

My train (0907 Hatfield to Moorgate) was caught behind a failed train at Highbury & Islington or Essex Road. Train driver kept us informed throughout, then was seen running through the train (a 6-car set, so that must have been a PITA getting between the two trains) and speaking out of breath as he got us to reverse back to Drayton Park. There we were told that it would become the 1011 to WGC, which caused a number of people to alight at Drayton Park (not sure why, it's a useless station for onward connections) and others to wait.

Getting back to Finsbury Park, all trains were obviously going to be diverted to King's Cross - but did the signs say this? Of course not. By this time, it was almost 30 minutes after the incident so what was the excuse? I boarded the incoming Moorgate train, knowing it would be diverted, and then the driver confirmed over the PA system... but nothing on the platform, so anyone wanting to go to Kings Cross just stood on the platform while people who had come over were then arguing with the platform staff about how trains could be running to Moorgate when they'd been told they were all cancelled - and the 'poor' staff didn't seem to know what was going on. Meanwhile the sign was scrolling some random message started 'train at Huntingdon FCC apologises for the delay...' over and over. I think there was quite a bit of text missing on that one!

There are presumably very well rehearsed plans for when things go tits up on the Northern City line and that seems to have gone like clockwork, so why not provide the required information to tell passengers who have been delayed and very confused?

How long can this go on for?

 

[philjo]

Went in to WGC last night. On the way back I looked at the departure summary screen in the Howard Centre by the booking office.

Most services were listed as normal with a platform number.
However the 20:00 departure to Letchworth Garden City had "DFL" in the platform column. I deduced that this meant "Down Fast Line" - but the fast lines at WGC don't have platforms! (not sure how you are supposed to get on/off then!)

As I was catching the 19:18 service I wasn't around to see what actually happened at 20:00 (presumably there would be a platform alteration announcement & the train arriving in platform 3)
As this is a stopping service not sure why it would be on the fast line anyway.

 

[jon0844]

There's random nonsense all over the place, which might be why they've turned off the screen on platform 1 at Hatfield as it's so confusing when trains are running late and the screen doesn't update (or gets locked on some random service from about 0500 that is showing as 200 minutes late).

And, it's not Letchworth Garden City, it's Letchworth G City! Get with the programme!

Not only that, but when it reads out the name, they've obviously edited the audio clip for the station name, such that it says the station name in two parts - like they added Garden City bit after and joined the two clips together.

So, when reading the stopping pattern, it sounds like "...Welwyn North, Knebworth, Stevenage, Hitchin, Letchworth, Garden City, Baldock, Ashwe...."

 

[philjo]

The announcements & screens at Kings Cross only say Letchworth so I suspect they may have used this & tagged a "Garden City" clip on to the end of it. (why can't they be consistent with what is said at other stations?)
Highbury & Islington seems to have had a number of different abbreviations used over the last few weeks.

Why can't they just put all station names in full on the screens?
On the GN route there isn't anything particularly long that would cause a problem.
I can see ATW may need to abbreviate things with Welsh place names (also appearing in Welsh & English)

 

[jon0844]

It's Highbury & Islgtn or similar isn't it?

Then we had Kings X, Letchworth G City...

It's like FCC has got someone on work experience in to fix the system and they're just tinkering and experimenting with the system and not actually aware that it's actually live and operational!

 

[philjo]

And it is "Welwyn Gdn City" so they are not even consistent there with "Letchworth G City" (unless they are restricted to a maximum number of characters which would be ridiculous as the old system showed both names in full)

 

[Aictos]

Went in to WGC last night. On the way back I looked at the departure summary screen in the Howard Centre by the booking office.

Most services were listed as normal with a platform number.
However the 20:00 departure to Letchworth Garden City had "DFL" in the platform column. I deduced that this meant "Down Fast Line" - but the fast lines at WGC don't have platforms! (not sure how you are supposed to get on/off then!)

As I was catching the 19:18 service I wasn't around to see what actually happened at 20:00 (presumably there would be a platform alteration announcement & the train arriving in platform 3)
As this is a stopping service not sure why it would be on the fast line anyway.

I was working one night and some trains had to shunt at Hitchin so the screen in the booking hall was showing the signal where this shunt was booked to take place from as a calling stop!

 

[12CSVT]

or gets locked on some random service from about 0500 that is showing as 200 minutes late.

This is forever happening on the Thameslink side as well, usually Sevenoaks trains which start at Kentish Town.

 

[Mojo]

Went to Finsbury Park this afternoon to hear these infamous announcements and did have a bit of a chuckle to myself about the two new stations at Letchworth and Garden City, as well as the "does not stop here" announcement being broadcast twice, but only after the signal at the end of the platform had changed after the train went rushing through.

 

[jon0844]

You made it just in time. They've corrected the double 'does not stop here' bit. They've also got manual announcements working, saying to look at the website for train running info, plus the pre-recorded 'due to today's weather... surfaces may be slippery'.

It still doesn't announce the next train any earlier than the 'final approach', and it is still announces trains for distant platforms, which is annoying.

It also seemed to have a problem working out the order of trains again;

My 0924 to Moorgate came and went (but was too busy so I waited for the next one). The next service was at 0933 and 0937. The 0937 was cancelled, but it announced an apology for the cancelled service and then said 'the next train will now be the 0933...'. Erm, no the next train was ALWAYS the 0933 - it's the one after that was cancelled.

I guess the software will look for the next service on its schedule, even if that 'next' service is actually earlier because the apology has gone out in advance. Bit of a programming glitch there. I'm sure after the 0933 went (which I was on), it would have found the next one after 0937 and started to say the right thing. Coded by a programmer who doesn't use the railway perhaps?

It's not a major issue when trains are running at a high frequency and to the same destination anyway, but I can see something like that having issues at other stations.

 

[philjo]

At least it does make the cancellation announcement at least 10 minutes in advance so you can catch a slightly earlier train. Going to London wouldn't be a problem. The problem is that the system doesn't say where the other train mentioned stops, so if a stopper is cancelled the announcement at say Stevenage would say the next train to Kings Cross is now at xx.xx - which in all likelihood would be a fast service so not much use if you are trying to get to WGC etc.
Same Northbound - I heard an announcement last week saying a Peterborough service was cancelled & it said the next service would be... - which was actually a Cambridge train.

The actual announcements for the next train are only made as the train approaches (or sometimes as the train pulls in), so if you are not on the platform you will miss it! The other problem is that it only announces it once.
At Potters Bar sometimes it coincides with a HST going through on the fast lines so you cannot hear what is being announced (esp if it is the GC Valenta!).
The old system announced it 2 minutes beforehand plus again on approach.

 

[jon0844]

Yes, it was around 2 minutes before, on approach and another ON the platform for the last minute runners who are about to leap on anything with doors open!

I am pretty sure there were periodic announcements of the next train at longer intervals too, useful for stations/platforms that may only have a half hourly service during the day/weekend. It's odd that FCC wants to reduce the train announcements, yet is happy to have all the safety ones repeating every 5-7 minutes.

 

[ungreat]

Arse cover messages mate..you know that!

 

[jon0844]

I accept the need for the safety messages, but why then remove the ones that give info to passengers?

I'm sure they could have got a cheaper system that only repeats 'No smoking. Mind the gap...' in an endless loop all day.

One more thing/rant; Now they have the new system on the Northern City line stations, why doesn't FCC set it to announce the trains? The screens work but there's no audio (besides manual announcements, or Phil saying to avoid the wrath of the security forces). At Old Street, given LU has such clear markings for the benefit of visually impaired people going to Moorfields eye hospital, it is very odd that there's total silence on the FCC platforms.

One problem many people also have on that bit is knowing what station you're at. Even regular commuters, engrossed in Metro/ES and watching movies on their iPhone can lose track. If each station announced the train (and what station it is; like the old system - e.g. 'Old Street. This is Old Street...' on the platform, I am sure that people on the train could quite clearly hear it and then know where they are. 313s have no information and I'm not sure I can recall more than one driver ever announcing the next stop (the driver that says thank you after everything he says).

 

[philjo]

A couple of people got up in a hurry on the northbound 313 I was on the other day & rushed off the train at Brookmans Park just before the doors were closing. It looked like they then realised they were at the wrong station as they tried to get back on, but the doors had now closed.
I suspect they thought we were actually at Hatfield.

 

[jon0844]

At night, with some stations having lighting that's nowhere near the platform signs, it's near impossible to tell where you are.

It's quite easy to tell when you're on a semi-fast service that's KGX, FPK, PBR, HAT - but on a slow, all-station, stopper you will lose track. No problem if you can see out of a window, but when the trains are busy it's hard.. and it gets dark around 4.30pm now - so it isn't just people late at night.

I once got off at Brookmans Park, but it wasn't because I got the wrong station, it was because I'd walked through the train from the front where I'd boarded and intended to get off and jump on the rear set to walk through and be nearer the steps at Hatfield (thanks to the train stopping so far down it's almost at WGC).

Imagine the embarrassment of jumping off, running back and realising it was a 3-car service and I'm now behind the train.. and having to turn round and run back on! God knows what the people on the train thought I was doing!

 

[Aictos]

Yesterday the 0844 from Potters Bar to Moorgate was advertised as having no 1st Class, so guess it's one way to tell the difference between services that DO have 1st Class and these which don't.

 

[asylumxl]

Imagine the embarrassment of jumping off, running back and realising it was a 3-car service and I'm now behind the train.. and having to turn round and run back on! God knows what the people on the train thought I was doing!

Exercising :P

 

[jon0844]

Exercising :P

Yes, that's probably what they were thinking (as against tw*t)

 

[asylumxl]

Yes, that's probably what they were thinking (as against tw*t)

Quite possible. Quite possible indeed. With some of the things people do on those trains, who are they do judge?

 

[jon0844]

How did the system show trains in the wrong order tonight? Suffice to say, the 2341 arrived on time, and was swapped upon arrival with the slow to WGC. The 'first' train would have only been leaving (2341) at the time the second one was arriving (having left 2336)...



Where does the new FCC system get its information from????

 

[Blindtraveler]

hi all, just reading this and thinking oh god, lets hope first who also have scotrail dont try this here. We only have to my knoledge 1 atos system here, at Edinburgh waverley. Gastly voice, the station manager and no end of bother when it first came into use. Hope we aint bugged by your problems. How is anne doing on fcc?