313s heading to FCC retain original lowback seating

[Aictos]

It's been confirmed by FCC that the ex LOROL 313s that FCC got will retain their low back seating and explains why they will retain the said seating, personally I think this seating layout is just right for these trains as the seating layout is why I like the NXEA 315s.

Answer: The current 313 high-backed seating was built twelve years ago and unfortunately the company that made it is no longer trading. To get the seating replicated we would have to get another company to copy the design and then go through the Design Accreditation process again to ensure that the new seats meet the current laws for disabled access and
crash-worthiness.

The quotes we received to do this work were incredibly expensive - up to £150K per unit!

We could not justify the huge expense.

 

[swt_passenger]

It's been confirmed by FCC that the ex LOROL 313s that FCC got will retain their low back seating and explains why they will retain the said seating, personally I think this seating layout is just right for these trains as the seating layout is why I like the NXEA 315s.

Answer: The current 313 high-backed seating was built twelve years ago and unfortunately the company that made it is no longer trading. To get the seating replicated we would have to get another company to copy the design and then go through the Design Accreditation process again to ensure that the new seats meet the current laws for disabled access and
crash-worthiness.

The quotes we received to do this work were incredibly expensive - up to £150K per unit!

We could not justify the huge expense.

So why not fit what SN have presumably already had certified for their 313s but with FCC patterns? Probably can't afford that either - but it's easier to divert attention onto difficulties with replicating old stuff unnecessarily...

 

[387star]

FCC refurbs fall short of the industry standard it often seems.

The 319s could have done with PIS/new door controls and tbh seating
317s still retain brown seat backs and grab handles
313s retain a lot of yellow
319/0 have only recieved new upholstery

365s have had the best refurbishment

 

[Aictos]

Because the seating in question is the same as used on the 365s and because the company that supplied that seating is no longer in business.

 

[387star]

Staying with FCC 321405/07/10/18-20 are still in Silverlink livery. I realise the latter are not even in service yet but is there any news on the livery/refurbishment status of these units?

313122/122/134 are heading to FCC?

 

[asylumxl]

Shame that. FCCs older stock never seems to get anything...

 

[Fincra5]

Because the seating in question is the same as used on the 365s and because the company that supplied that seating is no longer in business.

Why not actually bother to use the same company as Southern to get the trains refurbished to a modern and pleasent standard.

 

[Aictos]

Why not actually bother to use the same company as Southern to get the trains refurbished to a modern and pleasent standard.

I would welcome the same interior as the Southern units but to FCC specification but it won't happen,

There's reasons for things happening within the railway and while some might not be understandable, they exist for a reason.

 

[YesToHS2]

I was going to ask why they didn't use the same high back seats they used in the Mersey Rail's 508 refurb but they are only 2 + 2 not 3 + 2

 

[metrocammel]

Possibly, common sense prevailed by management? I do not understand wasting money on things such as new seats- the low 313 seats are fine for the relative short distance journeys they operate - they've been fine for the last 20-odd years- so if it's not broke don't fix it. In terms of comfort, despite the lack of a headrest, the padding is far comfier than 'regulation' modern alternatives - and low back seats mean there's less chance of falling asleep and missing your stop...

 

[Aictos]

and low back seats mean there's less chance of falling asleep and missing your stop...

Which is a regular occurrence on my route with passengers turning up on the last few services wanting to get off at a earlier stop and needing to get a taxi as the last southbound train went ages ago!

I'm looking forward to seeing the extra trains which ought to help the overcrowding in the peaks on the Moorgate trains.

 

[jon0844]

The new timetable is looking excellent - with most 4 car trains going to 8 and most 3 cars going to 6 (only exception is my morning train to Moorgate from FPK which will remain 3-car, except you can easily board anyway as so many people get off anyway). It is sure to make a big difference and well done to FCC for getting this up and running, with a few tweaks of a minute or two here and there that suggest they've been closely monitoring things (I can see a few changes that make perfect sense given regular places where there are delays or slow running along the way).

What IS annoying is that my morning train, which is declassified gets strengthened from 4 to 8 cars and then gets a first class service. NOOOOOO! I'm going to have to sit with the riff raff now.

 

[lm321412]

What IS annoying is that my morning train, which is declassified gets strengthened from 4 to 8 cars and then gets a first class service. NOOOOOO! I'm going to have to sit with the riff raff now.

The "riff raff" are usually still in their cesspits during the morning peak so i'm sure you will be ok!!

 

[starrymarkb]

I can see where FCC are coming from on this, with Thameslink EMUs probably coming on stream in about 5 years time is it worth doing a lot to the 313s?

similarly FGW knew that they would only have the 142s for a few years so smartened them up but didn't refurbish

 

[MCR247]

And the TL EMUs affect 313s how?

 

[starrymarkb]

Thameslink is taking over several GN routes, cascade the released units, 365s are dual voltage, there are other new trains included in today's announcements could some of those be for Moorgate

 

[MCR247]

Are 365s cleared for the Moorgate tunnels?

 

[jon0844]

Are 365s cleared for the Moorgate tunnels?

I doubt it given you can't get out the front or back, and you'd also have to push them!

Okay, they could be converted to AC/DC but the emergency exits would be a problem given how narrow the tunnels are (hence, yesterday, the driver having to walk through the train as there's no way he could have walked outside - and lucky for him, the 6-car train wasn't rammed).

Given only one type of train goes to Moorgate, I really don't know why the platforms are so low. It's a drop of at least a foot and some people do have problems getting on and off, especially with the gaps at the furthest end of Old Street.

 

[philjo]

I read somewhere that 319s could possibly be used. (but they are now allocated to work elsewhere after the new Thameslink stock arrives)

However, how long are the platforms on the Moorgate branch? the 313s operate coupled together as 6 cars, so I suspect 8 car trains would be too long for the platforms.

Probably need a dedicated 6-car inner suburban unit for the Moorgate Branch which can also work coupled as 12 cars on the Thameslink core.
By the time the new TL stock arrives on the GN line the 313s will be 40 years old.

 

[jon0844]

They're fine though. We built some amazing trains in the 1970s and 1980s didn't we? Also some dross, sure, but I'm never of the opinion that a 313 is a clackety old wreck. Seeing what Southern has done with some, they look almost brand new!

The platforms are definitely only long enough for the 6-car services, and they fill the platforms completely.

However, if a 319 could fit then you could run it as a 4-car and - if run more regularly - this might be okay for off-peak times. I think in the peak rush hour, you'd still need 6-car trains though.

 

[Aictos]

I doubt it given you can't get out the front or back, and you'd also have to push them!

Okay, they could be converted to AC/DC but the emergency exits would be a problem given how narrow the tunnels are (hence, yesterday, the driver having to walk through the train as there's no way he could have walked outside - and lucky for him, the 6-car train wasn't rammed).

Given only one type of train goes to Moorgate, I really don't know why the platforms are so low. It's a drop of at least a foot and some people do have problems getting on and off, especially with the gaps at the furthest end of Old Street.

The existing limits to the NCL is because it used to be a LUL line hence why the low platforms and the limit of 6 carriage trains, any longer and they wouldn't fit within the platforms unless of course the NCL is closed to lower the track within the NCL to reduce the distance between the floor of the platform and the floor of the train?

Means the track gets renewed and the branch becomes more DDA friendly,

 

[Wolfie]

Given only one type of train goes to Moorgate, I really don't know why the platforms are so low. It's a drop of at least a foot and some people do have problems getting on and off, especially with the gaps at the furthest end of Old Street.

Because they were originally built for a planned Northern Line extension to Ally Pally (World War 2 maeant that it was never completed!) and were converted to National Rail as cheaply as possible. Until the Jubilee Line extension and associated work you could still see an enamalled Northern Line map with the route up to Finsbury Park included on the platform at London Bridge.

 

[jon0844]

I should have perhaps said why the platforms are STILL so low, in that they could have been raised in height at some point in the last xx years.

At the very least, they could do what has been done on some platforms with raised sections for the doors that have disabled areas. A 313 has a rather basic area for wheelchair users, but if at least that part of the platform (and the second part further along for a 6-car) was raised then it would be a start.

 

[Skimble19]

Because the seating in question is the same as used on the 365s and because the company that supplied that seating is no longer in business.

Without being pedantic, they aren't quite the same, altho they are still pretty similar (I'd assume WAGN wanted a uniform(ish!) interior)

As for 365's being effected by the TL EMU's, they may be dual voltage, but that doesn't necessarily mean they can change between the two without hefty modifications..

At the moment the plan seems to be 319's go off to GW and the north, 313's stay put, as do 365's. Not heard anything at all about 317's/321's tho, although as there will be some through services there will hopefully be enough for the 317's to be sent elsewhere (NXEA?) and 321's with them..

 

[Aictos]

Without being pedantic, they aren't quite the same, altho they are still pretty similar (I'd assume WAGN wanted a uniform(ish!) interior)

Sorry to disappoint you but I'm 99.9% sure that the seat backs used in the 365s were also used in the 313s except in the pair of seats immediately behind the driver which stayed as the original lowback seating.

 

[Failed Unit]

I guess the 317s and 321s will definately be off once thameslink is complete as some gn routes will be going in the tunnel and south of the river. We should have enough 365s to cover diagrams never venturing south of kings cross. This assumes they ever complete thameslink to plan h

 

[Aictos]

I guess the 317s and 321s will definately be off once thameslink is complete as some gn routes will be going in the tunnel and south of the river. We should have enough 365s to cover diagrams never venturing south of kings cross. This assumes they ever complete thameslink to plan h

I'm sure in one of the railway magazines I read a few months ago they were discussing this and two of the things they brought up was either refurbishing the 365s and also looking at introducing 377s rather then IEP.

If the 365s do move and apart from the idea that a fleet from the existing FCC fleet will be in use together with these NXEMUs, the 365s would be fantastic on Paddington to Oxford.

 

[The Engineer]

message deleted!

 

[Failed Unit]

I wonder on lightly loaded services if passengers will have a preference to what kind of seats the will sit in. If a low back set is working in multiple with a high back on will passengers walk to their preferred type like the do with 153 / 156 combos.

 

[jon0844]

I doubt it. Doesn't FCC have something silly like 3 new 313s? That's a tiny amount, and I am unlikely to see one - and when the train comes in, I can't see myself running to get on one or the other.

When the 317s were being refreshed, I did walk down if one set was done and the other wasn't (I also used to walk to the 317/6s on One a while ago). I am sure some people won't even notice the difference! They may think something is different but not be able to place it!!

Actually, I tell a lie.. I will probably run along if I see a 'new' 313 just to have a look at how they've done it up (besides just the seats) but only the once!