Black Cat Roundabout upgrade awarded

[cactustwirly]

I wouldn’t say it’s *that* bad; indeed I prefer it to the M1.

There’s certainly troublesome sections though:
* Welwyn to Stevenage is most in need of improvement, and this needs a full three lanes plus hard shoulder, not a smart motorway
* Through Sandy
* Black Cat to A421 (now being fixed)
* M18 to M62

Well my parents got rear ended a few months ago because the speed of the traffic suddenly went from 70 to 30. The person behind probably didn't leave enough space. It's not a road I enjoy driving, it's way too busy and is seriously in need of an upgrade.

Then there was the caravan incident, caravan pulls out of a petrol station, I couldn't move over because the right hand lane was busy. So I had to slam on the brakes really hard to stop myself crashing into it.

You don't get that sort of thing on the M1

 

[Dave W]

I’m also a fan - for a while last year I was driving to Newcastle every few weeks - picking up the A1 at Archway and essentially never leaving it, until jumping off at Gosforth. A varied experience - sometimes frustrating on the two lane sections when Doris in her Micra overtakes a lorry doing 59mph but all part of the fun.

Removing the roundabouts would be nice but somehow straightening the bit around that marina is probably more of an issue in my eyes.

 

[Ediswan]

Removing the roundabouts would be nice but somehow straightening the bit around that marina is probably more of an issue in my eyes.

You have to slow/stop/queue for the A421 roundabout (Great Barford Bypass) almost immediately after. I can't see funding being made available to straighten out those bends except as part of converting that roundabout into a flyover.

 

[swt_passenger]

You have to slow/stop/queue for the A421 roundabout (Great Barford Bypass) almost immediately after. I can't see funding being made available to straighten out those bends except as part of converting that roundabout into a flyover.

But they are converting that roundabout, both the A1 and A421 will be straightened out as through routes, ie what is usually referred to as a three level junction? So northbound A1 traffic on the bendy section should no longer be slowing or queueing for the junction.

 

[bramling]

Well my parents got rear ended a few months ago because the speed of the traffic suddenly went from 70 to 30. The person behind probably didn't leave enough space. It's not a road I enjoy driving, it's way too busy and is seriously in need of an upgrade.

Then there was the caravan incident, caravan pulls out of a petrol station, I couldn't move over because the right hand lane was busy. So I had to slam on the brakes really hard to stop myself crashing into it.

You don't get that sort of thing on the M1

For sure the A1 can have its moments, but generally the hazards are fairly predictable - I realise this doesn’t help those who are less familiar with the road of course.

The “lorry section” around Doncaster can be quite nasty - certainly had a few nasty incidents there with bits falling off trucks or stones being thrown up. One immediate thing which would drastically improve safety on the A1 would be a total ban on lorries using the overtaking lane between Peterborough and Ferrybridge.

The M1 is awful though. The London end is dire, and the section around Luton is horrendous pretty much any time of day.

 

[Ediswan]

But they are converting that roundabout, both the A1 and A421 will be straightened out as through routes, ie what is usually referred to as a three level junction? So northbound A1 traffic on the bendy section should no longer be slowing or queueing for the junction.

Ah, it is the same roundabout Looking at the plans it appears the bends will remain.

 

[cactustwirly]

For sure the A1 can have its moments, but generally the hazards are fairly predictable - I realise this doesn’t help those who are less familiar with the road of course.

The “lorry section” around Doncaster can be quite nasty - certainly had a few nasty incidents there with bits falling off trucks or stones being thrown up. One immediate thing which would drastically improve safety on the A1 would be a total ban on lorries using the overtaking lane between Peterborough and Ferrybridge.

The M1 is awful though. The London end is dire, and the section around Luton is horrendous pretty much any time of day.

I only use the M1 north of Leicester.
Coming from the home counties I travel M40, A46, M69, M1, M18 and A1.
The A1 is by far the worst, we used the M62 and joined the M18 earlier to avoid the A1 and it actually wasn't much slower. The traffic can bunch up on the A1 and basically do 40/50mph anyway.

 

[bramling]

I only use the M1 north of Leicester.
Coming from the home counties I travel M40, A46, M69, M1, M18 and A1.
The A1 is by far the worst, we used the M62 and joined the M18 earlier to avoid the A1 and it actually wasn't much slower. The traffic can bunch up on the A1 and basically do 40/50mph anyway.

You’re avoiding the worst of the M1 by going via the M40, which generally tends to be fairly civilised. The London end of the M1 is sufficiently horrible that I often do A1/A14 to avoid it, especially with the current M1 roadworks.

 

[swt_passenger]

Ah, it is the same roundabout Looking at the plans it appears the bends will remain.

Yes, I was thinking the right side entrance to the marina will become more dangerous if overall speeds past it are much higher. Can’t see an easy solution to that though, can anyone?

 

[Dave91131]

One immediate thing which would drastically improve safety on the A1 would be a total ban on lorries using the overtaking lane between Peterborough and Ferrybridge.

Really?

Many "typical" lorries, both rigid and artic, travel faster (legitimately) than various other vehicles - cars towing caravans, various vans, camper vans, mopeds, learners, not to mention tractors and lorries with exceptionally large loads.

Some companies also speed restrict their lorries to speeds invariably lower than the legal maximum for reasons of fuel efficiency etc.

You can't seriously be suggesting that anything bigger than a large van is banned from overtaking for 160+ miles, can you?

 

[bramling]

Really?

Many "typical" lorries, both rigid and artic, travel faster (legitimately) than various other vehicles - cars towing caravans, various vans, camper vans, mopeds, learners, not to mention tractors and lorries with exceptionally large loads.

Some companies also speed restrict their lorries to speeds invariably lower than the legal maximum for reasons of fuel efficiency etc.

You can't seriously be suggesting that anything bigger than a large van is banned from overtaking for 160+ miles, can you?

Yes. Too many do it with a minimal speed differential, misjudge their own power by attempting an overtake when their vehicle has insufficient power to climb a gradient, or pull out into gaps which aren’t really there.

On a road which contains hazards such as at-grade crossings, exit slip roads with little advance warning and short entry slip roads, the severe bunching of traffic this causes is disproportionately dangerous relative to the tiny amount of time gained for an individual HGV.

So, yes, ban it. If trucks want a road where they can overtake, the M1 offers an alternative route for many journeys.

I would of course make an exception for overtaking something travelling very slowly such as a tractor.

 

[Dave91131]

Yes. Too many do it with a minimal speed differential, misjudge their own power by attempting an overtake when their vehicle has insufficient power to climb a gradient, or pull out into gaps which aren’t really there.

On a road which contains hazards such as at-grade crossings, exit slip roads with little advance warning and short entry slip roads, the severe bunching of traffic this causes is disproportionately dangerous relative to the tiny amount of time gained for an individual HGV.

So, yes, ban it. If trucks want a road where they can overtake, the M1 offers an alternative route for many journeys.

I would of course make an exception for overtaking something travelling very slowly such as a tractor.

I won't reply in detail as it would totally de-rail the thread - best to simply say agree to disagree I think, or create a new thread for a more in-depth discussion as there are so many relevant factors and variables which could be discussed surrounding the issue.

Back on topic, regarding the marina just south of the Black Cat, a 40mph speed limit section monitored by average speed cameras, say for the 1.5 miles up to the Black Cat travelling north, would be a sensible measure in my view to help improve the safety of those bends and entrances.

 

[Bald Rick]

You can't seriously be suggesting that anything bigger than a large van is banned from overtaking for 160+ miles, can you?

It’s 90 miles, not 160. There is precedent for such a policy both in Europe and also here (A14 and M42).

 

[O L Leigh]

It’s magnificent! Get it at the right time, and it’s a brilliant driving experience.

Although even in it's current form it is a highly sanitised version of the A1 I first experienced in the 1980's and 90's. Many sections have been replaced with bland multi-lane stretches, such as Alconbury to Peterborough and the slightly more interesting section passing the opposite site of Ferrybridge.

I do completely understand the need to get rid of the roundabouts, but now I find the road more tiring to drive than before because there's little to break-up the monotony of the route (I've got to the point of looking forward to having to dice with lorries just to keep my concentration up). I've also found that I no longer have any idea of precisely where I am along the route. There are also places I go where I know where to leave the A1 but not necessarily the number of the road I need to join, so I have missed junctions and exits that had previously been clear to me but which now do not seem to announce themselves in the same way.

As to the Black Cat itself; this was on our route to my grandparents and I'm sure I remember it being there probably as early as the late 1970s. It was always a big landmark for me because I knew we were almost there. However, I was surprised to find that it was still there (abeit in modernised form) quite recently having taken that route for the first time in many years. I would have bet that it would have been swept away years before.

 

[Bald Rick]

Although even in it's current form it is a highly sanitised version of the A1 I first experienced in the 1980's and 90's. Many sections have been replaced with bland multi-lane stretches, such as Alconbury to Peterborough and the slightly more interesting section passing the opposite site of Ferrybridge.

Norman Cross was always a pain. I love the stretch from Peterborough to Alconbury, it’s like driving down a runway. But my favourite stretch is Stamford to Great Ponton; it is not dissimilar to the original Pre-war Autonbahnen, following the contours and no hard shoulders.

 

[Ediswan]

Yes, I was thinking the right side entrance to the marina will become more dangerous if overall speeds past it are much higher. Can’t see an easy solution to that though, can anyone?

There will be a new access road with a bridge. See page 27 here: https://highwaysengland.citizenspac...supporting_documents/Consultation booklet.pdf

 

[O L Leigh]

But my favourite stretch is Stamford to Great Ponton; it is not dissimilar to the original Pre-war Autonbahnen, following the contours and no hard shoulders.

...and that's what it used to be like for mile after glorious mile, almost all the way up to the Gateshead bypass. It used to be an engaging road full of character, but now it's just dull. Safer than before maybe, but boring all the same.

 

[swt_passenger]

There will be a new access road with a bridge. See page 27 here: https://highwaysengland.citizenspace.com/he/a428-black-cat-to-caxton-gibbet-improvements/supporting_documents/Consultation booklet.pdf

Ah thanks. Completely missed that when I looked before…

 

[Bald Rick]

...and that's what it used to be like for mile after glorious mile, almost all the way up to the Gateshead bypass. It used to be an engaging road full of character, but now it's just dull. Safer than before maybe, but boring all the same.

Some bits had to be sorted though. Anyone who did the southbound right turn at Foston for Allington (now closed, thankfully) took their life into their own hands. Doesn’t make that stretch any less boring though.

 

[O L Leigh]

Some bits had to be sorted though.

I don't disagree. The A1 was a road from another time and not really fit for purpose. The slip lanes were all too short and only having two lanes meant that traffic couldn't really make any space for joining/exiting vehicles. But the changes have turned it from an interesting road into just another motorway. It's merely a conveyor belt for traffic, which I agree is it's purpose. It's just that for me as a driver, I'd rather take a more interesting route.

**EDIT**

If I may be permitted a little topic-drift, my time-is-no-object route to the North avoids all the motorways and major routes. It's a long trip for sure, but it's a cracking route. It's the A6 as far as Chapel-en-le-Frith and then up over the tops towards Huddersfield through Glossop and Holmfirth. Boring bit through Huddersfield and Halifax before the A629 to Skipton and then venturing over the tops again on B roads through Leyburn, Richmond, Barnard Castle and Corbridge to pick up the A68 all the way to Edinburgh. Not a route if you're in a rush, but plenty to see and loads of nice cafes and pubs to stop for refreshment.

 

[Ediswan]

Some bits had to be sorted though. Anyone who did the southbound right turn at Foston for Allington (now closed, thankfully) took their life into their own hands. Doesn’t make that stretch any less boring though.

Out of interest, I took a look on Google. Still a pedestrian crossing point, with a proper route across the central reservation, and 400yd warning signs on the A1.

 

[Dave91131]

It’s 90 miles, not 160. There is precedent for such a policy both in Europe and also here (A14 and M42).

My apologies - getting muddled with Ferryhill. My viewpoint remains the same, nonetheless.

The short stretch on the A14 in Northants (assuming that's the one you're referring to) where HGV's are prohibited from using the outside lane is adhered to about as well as the national limit of 70 on the M40 or M5, to give a couple of examples (i.e. hardly at all).

 

[D365]

Norman Cross was always a pain. I love the stretch from Peterborough to Alconbury, it’s like driving down a runway. But my favourite stretch is Stamford to Great Ponton; it is not dissimilar to the original Pre-war Autonbahnen, following the contours and no hard shoulders.

Agree on both counts, the contrast between the two keeps the modern A1 interesting. I certainly enjoy it more than the M1 which is just too busy.

 

[Egg Centric]

You’re avoiding the worst of the M1 by going via the M40, which generally tends to be fairly civilised. The London end of the M1 is sufficiently horrible that I often do A1/A14 to avoid it, especially with the current M1 roadworks.

Interesting. Conversely I usually do M1-A421-A1 to avoid the worst of the A1 - am looking forward to this* (although I could have sworn they upgraded the black cat fairly recently).

Of course the best bit about the A1 is very limited (compared to the M1) speed cameras. Well it's the second best bit if you're in the market for leather gags and so on

 

[NeilWatson]

The Black Cat roundabout was changed fairly recently, whether it was an upgrade is a matter of opinion

 

[ABB125]

The Black Cat roundabout was changed fairly recently, whether it was an upgrade is a matter of opinion

Standard Highways England/National Highways approach: make the roundabout bigger, add (more) traffic lights. Often multiple times, at great expense.

 

[Ediswan]

Standard Highways England/National Highways approach: make the roundabout bigger, add (more) traffic lights. Often multiple times, at great expense.

Somtimes all that is needed is to change the road markings and signs. Switching Bignall's Corner (A1/M25) from a concentric roundabout to spiral removed the vast majority of the lane change conflicts.

If the tale told at the time is correct, Hanger Lane (A406/A40) was once greatly improved by a traffic flow expert spending a day watching the traffic, then recommending some relatively minor re-timing of the traffic lights.

 

[bramling]

Somtimes all that is needed is to change the road markings and signs. Switching Bignall's Corner (A1/M25) from a concentric roundabout to spiral removed the vast majority of the lane change conflicts.

The roundabout you speak of has been a total shambles since the recent works. Many more people not following the lane markings and crossing lanes when they’re not meant to, and the timing of the signals makes it hard to mitigate against this as someone will always appear when (and where) you don’t want them to. Likewise the extra lanes which have appeared onto the A1 has caused issues with people pulling out too prematurely.

Round here every time HE get their white paint out they seem to have made things worse.

 

[Ediswan]

The roundabout you speak of has been a total shambles since the recent works. Many more people not following the lane markings and crossing lanes when they’re not meant to, and the timing of the signals makes it hard to mitigate against this as someone will always appear when (and where) you don’t want them to. Likewise the extra lanes which have appeared onto the A1 has caused issues with people pulling out too prematurely.

I used to transit Bignall's Corner frequently, but have not needed to for about three years. Have they been fiddling again ?

 

[bramling]

I used to transit Bignall's Corner frequently, but have not needed to for about three years. Have they been fiddling again ?

Yes it’s all been remarked out fairly recently (within the last few months). No issues negotiating it before that, now I find it sufficiently problematic that I will try and find a route which avoids it. The basic problem is the lane markings are different to where people seem to naturally drive, which means people cross lanes when they’re not meant to.

This is a problem if (1) you are following the markings correctly as at some point someone is likely to drive into the side of you, and (2) of you are doing some combinations of route you can end up being forced into a situation where you can be caught between traffic on both sides.

Now it might be possible to drive in a way which anticipates this, but more than one of the problem locations is straight after traffic lights, so you can pretty much guarantee there will be traffic alongside.

It does seem to be the case that to be a road layout designer for HE there has to be experience on the CV of being involved in something that you’ve been able to make *worse*!