How could the Borderlands line reach it's full potential?

[D821]

Do the services the 230s will operate really get comparably busy though? (Genuine question, as I've never travelled on the line).

It's not a busy line but it has potential to be. People in Wirral don't use it a great deal as the service isnt regular enough and there's a change for Liverpool.
If the service went direct to Liverpool, stations like Upton, Heswall and Neston would be a lot busier. Plus there's talk of building another in Woodchurch.

 

[wobman]

It's not a busy line but it has potential to be. People in Wirral don't use it a great deal as the service isnt regular enough and there's a change for Liverpool.
If the service went direct to Liverpool, stations like Upton, Heswall and Neston would be a lot busier. Plus there's talk of building another in Woodchurch.

There's a station actually being built soon named deeside parkway, the land for woodchurch station is there but merseytravel won't pump up the cash I've heard.

Let's see what the future holds for the line, especially if like many cities Liverpool begins a congestion charge as Manchester has started. The infrastructure needs investment on the Wirral side especially, merseytravel haven't even got the 777 in service yet so services to Liverpool are a distant ambition unfortunately.

 

[childwallblues]

It's not a busy line but it has potential to be. People in Wirral don't use it a great deal as the service isnt regular enough and there's a change for Liverpool.
If the service went direct to Liverpool, stations like Upton, Heswall and Neston would be a lot busier. Plus there's talk of building another in Woodchurch.

There seems to be a lot more passengers in the Deeside area and into Wrexham.

 

[D821]

There seems to be a lot more passengers in the Deeside area and into Wrexham.

I only ever see the Bidston end of things. I sometimes see the the Wrexham service pulling out at about 8:45 when I'm heading into Liverpool. There seems to be about 5-10 people on it. There's no way of me knowing how many at Bidston have just got off it, bit there must be a few.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

What are the bus services like of the side of the Wirral where the train currently serves?

 

[wobman]

What are the bus services like of the side of the Wirral where the train currently serves?

The bus services the customers opt for are direct into Liverpool, so there's no change which most users prefer. The change at Bidston on the trains is the downside and the wait at an isolated station with no facilities.

If the borderlands trains go direct to Liverpool the demand would increase massively, that coupled with reliable / frequent and cheap fares.

 

[317 forever]

There's a station actually being built soon named deeside parkway, the land for woodchurch station is there but merseytravel won't pump up the cash I've heard.

Let's see what the future holds for the line, especially if like many cities Liverpool begins a congestion charge as Manchester has started. The infrastructure needs investment on the Wirral side especially, merseytravel haven't even got the 777 in service yet so services to Liverpool are a distant ambition unfortunately.

I have accepted defeat in my aims to ride a TfW 230 this month. I can focus on other buses in Liverpool for now. I even reckon on postponing my 230 ride until I can easily combine it with a 777, potentially to West Kirby.

 

[Bevan Price]

It's not a busy line but it has potential to be. People in Wirral don't use it a great deal as the service isnt regular enough and there's a change for Liverpool.
If the service went direct to Liverpool, stations like Upton, Heswall and Neston would be a lot busier. Plus there's talk of building another in Woodchurch.

I doubt that Heswall will ever be busy, unless they build a big new housing estate next to it.
Currently, it is at least a mile from the town centre and most of the populated areas, and poorly served by buses.

 

[wobman]

I doubt that Heswall will ever be busy, unless they build a big new housing estate next to it.
Currently, it is at least a mile from the town centre and most of the populated areas, and poorly served by buses.

I think adding a woodchurch station with a big car park would be a good option, I know there's a station being built at Deeside industrial estate. Deeside parkway will be on a dedicated bus route for the industrial estate, that should attract commutters.

A direct link to Liverpool would be the game changer on the line, but that can't happen with the 230's. The passengers will have to wait for the battery 777 units if they arrive on the line !

 

[D821]

I doubt that Heswall will ever be busy, unless they build a big new housing estate next to it.
Currently, it is at least a mile from the town centre and most of the populated areas, and poorly served by buses.

I'd never given that much thought, but you're right. It too far away to be busy.

 

[Foxcover]

There are two or three reasonably big housing areas within easy walking distance of Heswall station, but the big issue to any wider growth (from a park and ride perspective) is that there’s no space to extend the very small car park.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are two or three reasonably big housing areas within easy walking distance of Heswall station, but the big issue to any wider growth (from a park and ride perspective) is that there’s no space to extend the very small car park.

Were it in Germany you'd have connecting buses, of course.

 

[D821]

It's a chicken and egg situation with the Borderlands Line - people will use it more if the services were more regular, but they won't make it more regular until more people use it.
I know TfW were going to up the service frequency but Covid and the 230 issues have delayed that.

 

[adrock1976]

I would have trains running Birkenhead North - Wrexham Central every 30 minutes during the daytime, more or less timed to pass each other more or less at Shotton.

The ex Chester & Holyhead (north Wales Coast) downstairs would have both the Manchester Pic - Bangor (Gwynedd)/Caernarfon via Warrington Bank Quay and the Liverpool Lime Street - Llandudno via Halton Curve (60 minutes frequency for each, providing a combined frequency of every 30 minutes along the common section between Frodsham and Llandudno Junction calling all stations along this section) calling 15 minutes either side of the Borderlands trains upstairs and timetabled to more or less pass each other downstairs.

This would enable an exchange of passengers arriving and departing in the other three directions with no more than a 15 minute wait to do the interchange, and would go some way to help encourage people to leave cars at home and use public transport, as a 5/55 minute interchange is not very friendly at all.

 

[PTR 444]

I would split the line at Shotton and have a half-hourly service to Liverpool operated by Merseyrail, and an hourly shuttle to Wrexham Central operated by TfW.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The title of this new thread states "the Borderlands line" yet most of the postings made so far only discuss the northern section of the line in the Wirral area.

Therefore can we expand the discussion to the southern reaches of the line and examine the possibilities of how the stations in the Welsh part of this line "can reach their full potential".

 

[HSTEd]

Well if we had the money, electrification and 4tph from Liverpool to Wrexham.

Probably won't happen though obviously.

 

[Llandudno]

I would have trains running Birkenhead North - Wrexham Central every 30 minutes during the daytime, more or less timed to pass each other more or less at Shotton.

The ex Chester & Holyhead (north Wales Coast) downstairs would have both the Manchester Pic - Bangor (Gwynedd)/Caernarfon via Warrington Bank Quay and the Liverpool Lime Street - Llandudno via Halton Curve (60 minutes frequency for each, providing a combined frequency of every 30 minutes along the common section between Frodsham and Llandudno Junction calling all stations along this section) calling 15 minutes either side of the Borderlands trains upstairs and timetabled to more or less pass each other downstairs.

This would enable an exchange of passengers arriving and departing in the other three directions with no more than a 15 minute wait to do the interchange, and would go some way to help encourage people to leave cars at home and use public transport, as a 5/55 minute interchange is not very friendly at all.

Good luck trying to get TfW to operate a clock face frequency and consistent stopping pattern on the north Wales coast!

They can’t even get connections to work between Llandudno and Llandudno Junction!

 

[wobman]

The Welsh side of the borderlands is getting a bus interchange at Pennyfford and then there's the bus interchange at Wrexham general station coming.
There's the new station being built at deeside parkway, with a bus interchange for services through the deeside industrial estate.

The line has lots of potential but it needs infasructure investment, plus the service needs to go to Liverpool to get the customers onboard.
Just look how busy the roads are in the areas the line runs through, for me getting a battery 777 unit with 3rd rail pick up booster stations on the route is the way forward.
Until then it's either keep the 150's or get some 197's on the route, having a frequent and reliable service is what needed.