• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Skelmersdale station proposals & suggestions

Status
Not open for further replies.

Corriman

Member
Joined
6 Jun 2015
Messages
27
I've been waiting a long time for some new news regarding a new station.
The SOBC sets out detailed proposals for a train station in Skelmersdale, which will now be subject to scrutiny and approval by the Government. Skelmersdale has been without a train station since 1956, when the previous station was closed.

West Lancashire MP Rosie commented:
“This is an enormous step in the fight for Skelmersdale Railway!

“Every resident of Skelmersdale knows how utterly revolutionary this will be for the town. It is absurd that with a population of close to 40,000, Skelmersdale doesn’t have a train station of its own.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

zwk500

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Jan 2020
Messages
18,612
Location
Northampton
Submission of the SOBC is a very small step on the road, but nevertheless and important and extremely welcome one!
 

WatcherZero

Established Member
Joined
25 Feb 2010
Messages
10,272
Mmm, the SOBC presents a rather poor case with marginal transport and commercial benefits, they are relying heavily on town centre regeneration to make the project viable, so much so that their preferred station locations actually harm the business case by creating rivals to the town centre.
 

Corriman

Member
Joined
6 Jun 2015
Messages
27
Not sure how you could get closer to the town centre than the Glenburn site. It use to be the location of two high schools and the pupils had no problem spending their dinner break hanging around the concourse shopping centre.
I can't comment on the commercial aspects but the transport benefits are beyond doubt I'd of thought.
 

Skie

Established Member
Joined
22 Dec 2008
Messages
1,239
Unfortunately the business case is based on AC electrification for Merseyrail, which will be bumping the prices up substantially. There is a small mention of the battery trials but I assume there just wasn't the time to update what is months of work with the positive results from that. But it does give plenty of scope to slash a good chunk of change off the costs.
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
35,874
Unusually for such a project at this stage, that construction estimate appears to be somewhat overcooked.
 

WatcherZero

Established Member
Joined
25 Feb 2010
Messages
10,272
Not sure how you could get closer to the town centre than the Glenburn site. It use to be the location of two high schools and the pupils had no problem spending their dinner break hanging around the concourse shopping centre.
I can't comment on the commercial aspects but the transport benefits are beyond doubt I'd of thought.

The study considers five options, options outside Glenburn and South Thorn are penalised in their calculations for potentially attracting retail custom away from the town centre.

B1: Bus service from Headbolt Lane (4bph)
R1: Glenburn Town Centre (2tph to Liverpool, 1tph to Wigan)
R2: Glenburn single track line, reduced operating hours (2tph to Liverpool, 1tph to Wigan)
R3: M58 Junction 4 (2tph to Liverpool, no Wigan service to Skelmersdale, approaches Skelmersdale from the west and so doesnt serve Rainford)
R4: South Thorn Island roundabout Town Centre (2tph to Liverpool, 1tph to Wigan)
R5: Upgrade Upholland station and extend Merseyrail service to it from Headbolt Lane

R3 is dismissed at sifting stage for low public support and opposition from land owners.
All options have double track from Headbolt Lane to Rainford and a single track 25kv electrified line from Rainford to Skelmersdale and a mirror single track unelectrified line from Skelmersdale to Upholland, no crossover. The costings exclude the purchase of 4 Stadler Bi-modes to operate the line but suggest possible savings from battery rather than 25kv traction.
All options except R3 include a refurbishment of Rainford Station
All options include upgrading the line between Upholland and Wigan.

Forecast additional passengers for Rainford and Skelmersdale stations by 2040
B1: 350,000
R1 & R2: 1.33m
R3: 440,000
R4: 1.03m
R5: 450,000

Construction cost:
R1: £487m
R2: £415m
R3: £294m
R4: £377m
R5: £128m
Annual infrastructure running costs very similar, around £2.2m per year and 400k cheaper for R3.

Operating BCR (Farebox revenue minus operating costs):
B1: 1.42
R1: 0.45
R2: 0.53
R3: 0.18
R4: 0.42
R5: 0.32

Wider Economic Impacts factored in: Access to jobs markets in Manchester, Liverpool and Wigan. Access to higher paid jobs in those places, inward investment into Skelmersdale, access to HS2 services at Wigan, increase in land values. Including factoring in other WEI and the margin of error the BCR for option R1 remains between 0.3 to 0.7 (they dont calculate it for the other options). Throwing the kitchen sink at option R1 including introducing some of the value engineering of other options, building more houses near the station, increasing the frequency to the minimum GM provision of 2tph, using battery power rather than electrification, factoring the revenue of journeys from the station to elsewhere in Skelmersdale (i.e. increased bus and taxi journeys) they think they could get the BCR for option 1 (their preferred option as they are constantly bigging it up and dissing the others) to 0.81. They recommend further study options R1, R4 and B1.

If I take their WEI calculation and factor it into the other option costs before value engineering as a rough comparison (and I think they dont do this in the report as it reflects unfavourbly on option R1) I make the BCR of R2: 0.74 and R4: 0.89 but they also require much smaller capital outlay.
 

mrd269697

Member
Joined
14 Feb 2020
Messages
170
Location
Wirral
Upholland Station is some distance from the centre of Skelmersdale, not that I’ve been there but looking at maps I’d put it at 2 miles. It is poorly used as I believe there are no bus links to the station, there is no parking facilities and the service is an hourly DMU with no evening or Sunday service.

upgrading the station (by extending Merseyrail) to include a large car park, a frequent bus link to the town centre, a staffed ticket office and renaming it Skelmersdale Parkway would deliver this project at a fraction of the cost of constructing a new permanent way. It isn’t perfect, for sure, but plenty of towns only have ‘parkway’ stations serving them, such as Bodmin (3 miles away) Tiverton (6 miles away), Sutton-in-Ashfield (2 miles) ect. If you make it worthwhile, providing cheap and frequent transport links to and from the station, and make the station attractive, you’ll get the business. Otherwise it’ll be a white elephant like East Midlands Parkway.

And also it’s safe to say a hell of a lot more have stations just named after them (no parkway suffix) but are some distance from the settlement they’re named after, such as Tring.
 

mwmbwls

Member
Joined
14 Dec 2009
Messages
682
Upholland Station is some distance from the centre of Skelmersdale, not that I’ve been there but looking at maps I’d put it at 2 miles. It is poorly used as I believe there are no bus links to the station, there is no parking facilities and the service is an hourly DMU with no evening or Sunday service.

upgrading the station (by extending Merseyrail) to include a large car park, a frequent bus link to the town centre, a staffed ticket office and renaming it Skelmersdale Parkway would deliver this project at a fraction of the cost of constructing a new permanent way. It isn’t perfect, for sure, but plenty of towns only have ‘parkway’ stations serving them, such as Bodmin (3 miles away) Tiverton (6 miles away), Sutton-in-Ashfield (2 miles) ect. If you make it worthwhile, providing cheap and frequent transport links to and from the station, and make the station attractive, you’ll get the business. Otherwise it’ll be a white elephant like East Midlands Parkway.

And also it’s safe to say a hell of a lot more have stations just named after them (no parkway suffix) but are some distance from the settlement they’re named after, such as Tring.
Upholland Station is set in a deep cutting just the west of Uphollland Tunnel, The parking is extremely poor as the road crossing the railway has a sharp U turn with double yellow lines right through the village. There is no disabled access and it would require extensive works to provide a suitable step free footbridge.

The following images illustrate the nature of the problem.
The parking area at Upholland Station - all of it by Mwmbwls, on Flickr
Equally challenging exit on the west bound platform at Uphollanf by Mwmbwls, on Flickr
Upholland Tunnel West Portal by Mwmbwls, on Flickr
 

Djgr

Established Member
Joined
30 Jul 2018
Messages
3,391
The study considers five options, options outside Glenburn and South Thorn are penalised in their calculations for potentially attracting retail custom away from the town centre.

B1: Bus service from Headbolt Lane (4bph)
R1: Glenburn Town Centre (2tph to Liverpool, 1tph to Wigan)
R2: Glenburn single track line, reduced operating hours (2tph to Liverpool, 1tph to Wigan)
R3: M58 Junction 4 (2tph to Liverpool, no Wigan service to Skelmersdale, approaches Skelmersdale from the west and so doesnt serve Rainford)
R4: South Thorn Island roundabout Town Centre (2tph to Liverpool, 1tph to Wigan)
R5: Upgrade Upholland station and extend Merseyrail service to it from Headbolt Lane

R3 is dismissed at sifting stage for low public support and opposition from land owners.
All options have double track from Headbolt Lane to Rainford and a single track 25kv electrified line from Rainford to Skelmersdale and a mirror single track unelectrified line from Skelmersdale to Upholland, no crossover. The costings exclude the purchase of 4 Stadler Bi-modes to operate the line but suggest possible savings from battery rather than 25kv traction.
All options except R3 include a refurbishment of Rainford Station
All options include upgrading the line between Upholland and Wigan.

Forecast additional passengers for Rainford and Skelmersdale stations by 2040
B1: 350,000
R1 & R2: 1.33m
R3: 440,000
R4: 1.03m
R5: 450,000

Construction cost:
R1: £487m
R2: £415m
R3: £294m
R4: £377m
R5: £128m
Annual infrastructure running costs very similar, around £2.2m per year and 400k cheaper for R3.

Operating BCR (Farebox revenue minus operating costs):
B1: 1.42
R1: 0.45
R2: 0.53
R3: 0.18
R4: 0.42
R5: 0.32

Wider Economic Impacts factored in: Access to jobs markets in Manchester, Liverpool and Wigan. Access to higher paid jobs in those places, inward investment into Skelmersdale, access to HS2 services at Wigan, increase in land values. Including factoring in other WEI and the margin of error the BCR for option R1 remains between 0.3 to 0.7 (they dont calculate it for the other options). Throwing the kitchen sink at option R1 including introducing some of the value engineering of other options, building more houses near the station, increasing the frequency to the minimum GM provision of 2tph, using battery power rather than electrification, factoring the revenue of journeys from the station to elsewhere in Skelmersdale (i.e. increased bus and taxi journeys) they think they could get the BCR for option 1 (their preferred option as they are constantly bigging it up and dissing the others) to 0.81. They recommend further study options R1, R4 and B1.

If I take their WEI calculation and factor it into the other option costs before value engineering as a rough comparison (and I think they dont do this in the report as it reflects unfavourbly on option R1) I make the BCR of R2: 0.74 and R4: 0.89 but they also require much smaller capital outlay.
Those figures don't look good. How does this project move forward with this as the starting position?
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
113,649
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Why not do B1 now (to Kirkby) and see how it goes?

Not well, I suspect. If it were Germany it would work, but we don't do bus integration here properly.
 
Last edited:

Djgr

Established Member
Joined
30 Jul 2018
Messages
3,391
Why not do B1 now (to Kirkby) and see how it goes?

Not well, I suspect. If it were Germany it would work, but we don't do bus integration here properly.
Are there really strong travel flows to Liverpool anymore, apart from the annual outing to see Auntie Val?
 

Corriman

Member
Joined
6 Jun 2015
Messages
27
HC
Are there really strong travel flows to Liverpool anymore, apart from the annual outing to see Auntie Val?
We don't have a normal town centre with restaurants, pubs and clubs. Liverpool is absolutely fabulous and only 15 miles away with the potential to be a 30 min trip on the train. Bus journey is nearly a two hour trip. Maghull North and Ormskirk stations are similar distances, I usually drive to Maghull North (10 mins) on the always quiet M58 and a 20 min trip in to "town" which is what most people in Skem still call Liverpool city centre. I would of thought any park and ride scheme would be to Maghull North rather than Headbolt Lane.
There's still a strong cultural link between Skem and Liverpool, though less so now the other way round. If the travel flows aren't strong to Liverpool, there's good reasons why. The published report highlights most of them. Would the travel flow be strong with a rail link? Absolutely.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
113,649
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Are there really strong travel flows to Liverpool anymore, apart from the annual outing to see Auntie Val?

I would expect so, it is a nice place for a day out and offers lots of employment opportunities, but is suppressed by being awkward to get to by public transport and unpleasant and expensive by car.
 

stuu

Established Member
Joined
2 Sep 2011
Messages
3,770
The passenger forecasts look pretty low, Kirkby has twice as many passengers now
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
113,649
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
The passenger forecasts look pretty low, Kirkby has twice as many passengers now

But then Kirkby has had a station for as long as it has existed in its current form. I don't oppose Headbolt Lane but surely the case for that is weaker. Connecting a seriously deprived town to its hinterland by rail has major social benefits.
 

Djgr

Established Member
Joined
30 Jul 2018
Messages
3,391
But then Kirkby has had a station for as long as it has existed in its current form. I don't oppose Headbolt Lane but surely the case for that is weaker. Connecting a seriously deprived town to its hinterland by rail has major social benefits.
But it is quite difficult to retrofit a rail service into a town that was designed to be both self-contained and car-centric.

As an aside, can I just say how much I hate the name Headbolt Lane. If it is going to serve a wider hinterland than simply a part of Kirkby town (and it is due to have 300 car park spaces anyway) then a Parkway or Interchange name makes it sound a lot more credible.
 

507 001

Established Member
Joined
3 Dec 2008
Messages
2,177
Location
Huyton
But it is quite difficult to retrofit a rail service into a town that was designed to be both self-contained and car-centric.

As an aside, can I just say how much I hate the name Headbolt Lane. If it is going to serve a wider hinterland than simply a part of Kirkby town (and it is due to have 300 car park spaces anyway) then a Parkway or Interchange name makes it sound a lot more credible.

Tower Hill Parkway?
 

YorkshireBear

Established Member
Joined
23 Jul 2010
Messages
9,668
I've seen somewhere today stadler have been asked to add batteries to seven of the 777s could be perfect!
 

Djgr

Established Member
Joined
30 Jul 2018
Messages
3,391
Tower Hill Parkway?
Well I have said before that I like Knowsley Parkway.

Is Knowsley regarded in Knowsley the same way as Merseyside is within "Merseyside"? i.e. not very popular and not used
 

507 001

Established Member
Joined
3 Dec 2008
Messages
2,177
Location
Huyton
Well I have said before that I like Knowsley Parkway.

Is Knowsley regarded in Knowsley the same way as Merseyside is within "Merseyside"? i.e. not very popular and not used

The problem you have there is that people will confuse it with Knowsley Village, which it isn't exactly in walking distance of.
 

Llandudno

Established Member
Joined
25 Dec 2014
Messages
2,748
Location
Matlock
But it is quite difficult to retrofit a rail service into a town that was designed to be both self-contained and car-centric.

As an aside, can I just say how much I hate the name Headbolt Lane. If it is going to serve a wider hinterland than simply a part of Kirkby town (and it is due to have 300 car park spaces anyway) then a Parkway or Interchange name makes it sound a lot more credible.
Surely it has to be named Kirkby Northwood or Kirkby Tower Hill

Of course you could call it East Kirkby to confuse everyone, although the demographic may be slightly different to the other Merseyrail station West Kirby!
 

Djgr

Established Member
Joined
30 Jul 2018
Messages
3,391
Surely it has to be named Kirkby Northwood or Kirkby Tower Hill

Of course you could call it East Kirkby to confuse everyone, although the demographic may be slightly different to the other Merseyrail station West Kirby!

I don't think it would be at all. Largely because the plan for the New Towns to be self contained was an abject failure.
More the car-centric element. How do arrivals into Skelmersdale railway station get to where they want to go if it is all spread out? Or do we assume that people would only use the rail service to leave Skem?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Surely it has to be named Kirkby Northwood or Kirkby Tower Hill

Of course you could call it East Kirkby to confuse everyone, although the demographic may be slightly different to the other Merseyrail station West Kirby!
There must have been a Trivia thread on stations named after lanes. Headbolt would join Rice and Green on the network
 

zwk500

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Jan 2020
Messages
18,612
Location
Northampton
More the car-centric element. How do arrivals into Skelmersdale railway station get to where they want to go if it is all spread out?
The same way they do in any other large town: Bus, Taxi or lift from obliging relative/friend.
Or do we assume that people would only use the rail service to leave Skem?
If it's being set up as a commuter/shopper service into Liverpool, isn't this a reasonable assumption?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top