Current allocated formations of Class 375 and Class 377 trains.

[capitalconnect]

I have some questions about 375 and 377 formations please.

Class 377s (SN):

The following formations are common and are seen all the time on the network:
• 3 coach (377)
• 4 coach (377)
• 5 coach (377)
• 8 coach (377+377)
• 10 coach (377+377)
• 10 coach (377+377+377)
• 12 coach (377+377+377)

However does anyone know if there are any services that are allocated for the following formations:
• 6 coach (377+377)
• 7 coach (377+377)
• 9 coach (377+377+377)
• 11 coach (377+377+377)
• 12 coach (377+377+377+377)

I have seen plenty of evidence of these but i can not find any information on if there are any allocated services for these formations? Or are these just one of formations which happen occasionally?

Are there any 377/3+377/3+377/3+377/3 twelve coach formations any more? What happened to these? If you go back a couple of years ago these were very common and could be seen every day most commonly used on the East Grinstead services but also on other routes as well. I used to see these formations all the time but these days i never see them. Do they still run any more? If so on what services are they used?

Class 375s (SE):

The following formations are common and are seen all the time on the network:
• 3 coach (375)
• 4 coach (375)
• 8 coach (375+375)
• 12 coach (375+375+375)

However does anyone know if there are any services that are allocated for the following formations:
• 6 coach (375+375)
• 7 coach (375+375)
• 9 coach (375+375+375)
• 10 coach (375+375+375)
• 11 coach (375+375+375)
• 12 coach (375+375+375+375)

Again i have seen plenty of evidence of most of these but i can not find any information on if there are any allocated services for these formations? Or are these just one of formations which happen occasionally?

I am trying to take photos of every possible 375 and 377 formations so any information on this would be very much appreciated.

 

[LA50041]

I have some questions about 375 and 377 formations please.

Class 377s (SN):

The following formations are common and are seen all the time on the network:
• 3 coach (377)
• 4 coach (377)
• 5 coach (377)
• 8 coach (377+377)
• 10 coach (377+377)
• 10 coach (377+377+377)
• 12 coach (377+377+377)

However does anyone know if there are any services that are allocated for the following formations:
• 6 coach (377+377)
• 7 coach (377+377)
• 9 coach (377+377+377)
• 11 coach (377+377+377)
• 12 coach (377+377+377+377)

I have seen plenty of evidence of these but i can not find any information on if there are any allocated services for these formations? Or are these just one of formations which happen occasionally?

Are there any 377/3+377/3+377/3+377/3 twelve coach formations any more? What happened to these? If you go back a couple of years ago these were very common and could be seen every day most commonly used on the East Grinstead services but also on other routes as well. I used to see these formations all the time but these days i never see them. Do they still run any more? If so on what services are they used?

Class 375s (SE):

The following formations are common and are seen all the time on the network:
• 3 coach (375)
• 4 coach (375)
• 8 coach (375+375)
• 12 coach (375+375+375)

However does anyone know if there are any services that are allocated for the following formations:
• 6 coach (375+375)
• 7 coach (375+375)
• 9 coach (375+375+375)
• 10 coach (375+375+375)
• 11 coach (375+375+375)
• 12 coach (375+375+375+375)

Again i have seen plenty of evidence of most of these but i can not find any information on if there are any allocated services for these formations? Or are these just one of formations which happen occasionally?

I am trying to take photos of every possible 375 and 377 formations so any information on this would be very much appreciated.

There are a couple of 6 car booked workings on Southern, especially on Saturdays.

none of the other formations are booked, however some 7 & 9 car do work STP.

4x3 car used to be commonplace on the Grinny services when they split outside the peak, but with most trains running the same formations all day this is not needed and freed up 3 cars to strengthen some Metro services from 8 to 10.

4x3 do still happen occasionally at weekends if there is significant engineering works

 

[RichardKing]

A bizarre combination of units seen at Hampden Park 2 years ago.

A 377/6, 377/3 (342 to make it even more unique!) and 377/2. Everything about this formation was rare for the coastway!

 

[capitalconnect]

There are a couple of 6 car booked workings on Southern, especially on Saturdays.

none of the other formations are booked, however some 7 & 9 car do work STP.

4x3 car used to be commonplace on the Grinny services when they split outside the peak, but with most trains running the same formations all day this is not needed and freed up 3 cars to strengthen some Metro services from 8 to 10.

4x3 do still happen occasionally at weekends if there is significant engineering works

Thank you for the information. I shall keep an eye out for those. I suppose engineering works will often result in unusual formations. I do not suppose that you know which services are six car? Or which lines these are on?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Sep 2021 ==

A bizarre combination of units seen at Hampden Park 2 years ago.

A 377/6, 377/3 (342 to make it even more unique!) and 377/2. Everything about this formation was rare for the coastway!

That is interesting to see. I had always thought that the 377/6 377/7 were unable to work attached to the 377/1 377/2 377/3 377/4 377/5 units. I had thought the 377/6 377/7 could only work attached to 387 units. Well that is certainly an odd formation! As you say none of those subclasses are normally found anywhere on the East Coastway services!

 

[LA50041]

Thank you for the information. I shall keep an eye out for those. I suppose engineering works will often result in unusual formations. I do not suppose that you know which services are six car? Or which lines these are on?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Sep 2021 ==

Not off the top of my head, I can have a look when I’m back in the office, but I think they are booked on a Beckenham circuit and/or a West Croydon. I’ll come back to you Monday if nobody gives an answer before then

That is interesting to see. I had always thought that the 377/6 377/7 were unable to work attached to the 377/1 377/2 377/3 377/4 377/5 units. I had thought the 377/6 377/7 could only work attached to 387 units. Well that is certainly an odd formation! As you say none of those subclasses are normally found anywhere on the East Coastway services!

There is an issue with certain formations including the 5 car units, they certainly can’t be inside 2 others but are ok on the outside.
the PIS was updated a couple of years back to allow this

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Sep 2021 ==

A bizarre combination of units seen at Hampden Park 2 years ago.

A 377/6, 377/3 (342 to make it even more unique!) and 377/2. Everything about this formation was rare for the coastway!

That formation must’ve been planned by a right crank

 

[dodecahedron67]

I have some questions about 375 and 377 formations please.

Class 377s (SN):

The following formations are common and are seen all the time on the network:
• 3 coach (377)
• 4 coach (377)
• 5 coach (377)
• 8 coach (377+377)
• 10 coach (377+377)
• 10 coach (377+377+377)
• 12 coach (377+377+377)

However does anyone know if there are any services that are allocated for the following formations:
• 6 coach (377+377)
• 7 coach (377+377)
• 9 coach (377+377+377)
• 11 coach (377+377+377)
• 12 coach (377+377+377+377)

I have seen plenty of evidence of these but i can not find any information on if there are any allocated services for these formations? Or are these just one of formations which happen occasionally?

Are there any 377/3+377/3+377/3+377/3 twelve coach formations any more? What happened to these? If you go back a couple of years ago these were very common and could be seen every day most commonly used on the East Grinstead services but also on other routes as well. I used to see these formations all the time but these days i never see them. Do they still run any more? If so on what services are they used?

Class 375s (SE):

The following formations are common and are seen all the time on the network:
• 3 coach (375)
• 4 coach (375)
• 8 coach (375+375)
• 12 coach (375+375+375)

However does anyone know if there are any services that are allocated for the following formations:
• 6 coach (375+375)
• 7 coach (375+375)
• 9 coach (375+375+375)
• 10 coach (375+375+375)
• 11 coach (375+375+375)
• 12 coach (375+375+375+375)

Again i have seen plenty of evidence of most of these but i can not find any information on if there are any allocated services for these formations? Or are these just one of formations which happen occasionally?

I am trying to take photos of every possible 375 and 377 formations so any information on this would be very much appreciated.

in the regular SE pre-covid timetable, there were a few 10/11 car peak-only CHX/CST-AFK (then onto RAM/DVP or terminating at AFK)

Couldn't give you exact diagrams as it's now been a year and a half since I last saw one of em but I remember seeing and using them multiple times

 

[capitalconnect]

Not off the top of my head, I can have a look when I’m back in the office, but I think they are booked on a Beckenham circuit and/or a West Croydon. I’ll come back to you Monday if nobody gives an answer before then

There is an issue with certain formations including the 5 car units, they certainly can’t be inside 2 others but are ok on the outside.
the PIS was updated a couple of years back to allow this

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Sep 2021 ==


That formation must’ve been planned by a right crank

Thank you. That would be great to know which services these are. Much appreciated.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Sep 2021 ==

in the regular SE pre-covid timetable, there were a few 10/11 car peak-only CHX/CST-AFK (then onto RAM/DVP or terminating at AFK)

Couldn't give you exact diagrams as it's now been a year and a half since I last saw one of em but I remember seeing and using them multiple times

Thank you. I shall keep an eye out for these 10 coach and 11 coach formations and see if they still run. The timetables are slowly getting back to normal now so it is possible these may still run now.

 

[NSE]

I had a 6 coach 2x7/3 yesterday from Queens Road Peckham to London Bridge, virtually certain it came Beckenham Junction via Tulse Hill. Also had an 11 car on East Grinstead but that was back in 2013 so who knows if it still happens.

 

[RichardKing]

That is interesting to see. I had always thought that the 377/6 377/7 were unable to work attached to the 377/1 377/2 377/3 377/4 377/5 units. I had thought the 377/6 377/7 could only work attached to 387 units. Well that is certainly an odd formation! As you say none of those subclasses are normally found anywhere on the East Coastway services!

I've only seen it done a few times - during one of the Eastbourne Airshows (2018 I think), the Brighton-Ore-Brighton services were formed of either a 377/1 or /4 and a 377/6 for 9 car diagrams.

Back in July, 377101 failed near Pevensey and was rescued by a 387 - another fairly rare sight!
https://twitter.com/SR_Trainspotter/status/1416528487133978629

That formation must’ve been planned by a right crank

Someone who had plenty of time on their hands!

 

[CFRAIL]

In SE land... 6 car (375 3XX x2) are really rare, I've only encountered one once.
7 car are fairly common as are 11/12.
Never experienced a 9 and only a 10 car a couple of times.

 

[capitalconnect]

I had a 6 coach 2x7/3 yesterday from Queens Road Peckham to London Bridge, virtually certain it came Beckenham Junction via Tulse Hill. Also had an 11 car on East Grinstead but that was back in 2013 so who knows if it still happens.

Thank you. I shall definitely try to find one of these six coach workings soon. Eleven coach workings certainly seem very rare so i am guessing that it must have been a one off rare working.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Sep 2021 ==

I've only seen it done a few times - during one of the Eastbourne Airshows (2018 I think), the Brighton-Ore-Brighton services were formed of either a 377/1 or /4 and a 377/6 for 9 car diagrams.

Back in July, 377101 failed near Pevensey and was rescued by a 387 - another fairly rare sight!
https://twitter.com/SR_Trainspotter/status/1416528487133978629


Someone who had plenty of time on their hands!

Thank you. That is another very interesting formation. That is the first time i have seen any evidence of a 377 and 387 attached to each other. I am surprised this has not happened more often now that Gatwick Express is suspended and the 387 are often on East Coastway line services. I am guessing this is probably only allowed in an emergency though.

Another related question i have always wondered is why were the 377/6 and 377/7 classified as 377 instead of 387 when they are identical to the 387 but very different to the other 377 trains? Is there any particular reason they decided to do this?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Sep 2021 ==

In SE land... 6 car (375 3XX x2) are really rare, I've only encountered one once.
7 car are fairly common as are 11/12.
Never experienced a 9 and only a 10 car a couple of times.

Thank you. Yes i presumed they must be quite rare. I am guessing that such formations mainly just happen when stock is in the wrong place and stuff like that. I suppose it just relies on luck of being in the right place at the right time.

Do you know if any 375/3+375/3+375/3+375/3 twelve coach trains have ever run on Southeastern at all? As it used to be common at Southern on East Grinstead line services but i can not find any evidence of Southeastern ever using this formation? So just wondering if such a formation has happened on Southeastern before?

Does anyone know if the 375 and 377 trains can work attached to each other? Now that Southeastern have both 375 and 377 are there any services where they work attached to each other?

 

[CFRAIL]

Thank you. I shall definitely try to find one of these six coach workings soon. Eleven coach workings certainly seem very rare so i am guessing that it must have been a one off rare working.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Sep 2021 ==


Thank you. That is another very interesting formation. That is the first time i have seen any evidence of a 377 and 387 attached to each other. I am surprised this has not happened more often now that Gatwick Express is suspended and the 387 are often on East Coastway line services. I am guessing this is probably only allowed in an emergency though.

Another related question i have always wondered is why were the 377/6 and 377/7 classified as 377 instead of 387 when they are identical to the 387 but very different to the other 377 trains? Is there any particular reason they decided to do this?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Sep 2021 ==


Thank you. Yes i presumed they must be quite rare. I am guessing that such formations mainly just happen when stock is in the wrong place and stuff like that. I suppose it just relies on luck of being in the right place at the right time.

Do you know if any 375/3+375/3+375/3+375/3 twelve coach trains have ever run on Southeastern at all? As it used to be common at Southern on East Grinstead line services but i can not find any evidence of Southeastern ever using this formation? So just wondering if such a formation has happened on Southeastern before?

Does anyone know if the 375 and 377 trains can work attached to each other? Now that Southeastern have both 375 and 377 are there any services where they work attached to each other?

I'm certainly not aware of any 12 cars formed of wholly 375/3 stock... although it's worth remembering that SE only have a handful of 375/3 stock. There have been occasions where branch line (particularly the Sheerness line) 375/3 workings have been swapped with standard 4 car 375 units, when 375/3 stock is unavailable for whatever reason.

 

[LA50041]

Thank you. That would be great to know which services these are. Much appreciated.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Sep 2021 ==


Thank you. I shall keep an eye out for these 10 coach and 11 coach formations and see if they still run. The timetables are slowly getting back to normal now so it is possible these may still run now.

Apologies for the delay in getting back to you.

Booked Southern 6 car 377 services are
Saturday
Selhurst Depot - Norwood - London Bridge to form 0839 LDB-BKJ and repeat every 90 minutes

Sunday
Selhurst Depot - West Croydon - Victoria to form 0736 VIC-WCY and repeat every 2 hours

I've also found some odd SE diagrams which I believe are still valid
0712 VIC-DVP 7 car
0725 VIC-RAM 7 car
1312 VIC-DVP 7 car
1325 VIC-RAM 7 car
1810 VIC-DVP 11 car
1925 VIC-RAM 7 car

Hope this helps

 

[capitalconnect]

I'm certainly not aware of any 12 cars formed of wholly 375/3 stock... although it's worth remembering that SE only have a handful of 375/3 stock. There have been occasions where branch line (particularly the Sheerness line) 375/3 workings have been swapped with standard 4 car 375 units, when 375/3 stock is unavailable for whatever reason.

Yes that is a good point. From looking online there are only 10 of the 375/3 units compared to 28 of the 377/3 units. If i remember correctly i think that the Strood to Tonbridge branch and the Sheerness to Sittingbourne branch both require two units each so that is four units total which only leaves six spare units for other mainline services.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Sep 2021 ==

Apologies for the delay in getting back to you.

Booked Southern 6 car 377 services are
Saturday
Selhurst Depot - Norwood - London Bridge to form 0839 LDB-BKJ and repeat every 90 minutes

Sunday
Selhurst Depot - West Croydon - Victoria to form 0736 VIC-WCY and repeat every 2 hours

I've also found some odd SE diagrams which I believe are still valid
0712 VIC-DVP 7 car
0725 VIC-RAM 7 car
1312 VIC-DVP 7 car
1325 VIC-RAM 7 car
1810 VIC-DVP 11 car
1925 VIC-RAM 7 car

Hope this helps

Thank you for that. It is very much appreciated. That is very helpful. I am planning to go and get some photos of those Southern workings next weekend and shall have a look out for those Southeastern workings next week too.

 

[LA50041]

Yes that is a good point. From looking online there are only 10 of the 375/3 units compared to 28 of the 377/3 units. If i remember correctly i think that the Strood to Tonbridge branch and the Sheerness to Sittingbourne branch both require two units each so that is four units total which only leaves six spare units for other mainline services.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Sep 2021 ==


Thank you for that. It is very much appreciated. That is very helpful. I am planning to go and get some photos of those Southern workings next weekend and shall have a look out for those Southeastern workings next week too.

You're welcome.
This weekend the saturday diagrams are as booked, but the Sunday diagrams are not running due to Engineering works.

I've just had sight of the latest SE diagrams, the 1312 is now 8 car & the 1810 is now 12 car but the other 7 cars are still as booked

 

[73128]

Does anyone know if the 375 and 377 trains can work attached to each other? Now that Southeastern have both 375 and 377 are there any services where they work attached to each other?

Haven't the 375s and 377s still got different couplers (which is why the Southern sets were reclassified originally)?

 

[capitalconnect]

You're welcome.
This weekend the saturday diagrams are as booked, but the Sunday diagrams are not running due to Engineering works.

I've just had sight of the latest SE diagrams, the 1312 is now 8 car & the 1810 is now 12 car but the other 7 cars are still as booked

Thank you for letting me know. I almost forget to check for engineering works on Sunday this week. I shall go on Saturday then and photograph the Southern six coach workings. I am planning to also go on either Thursday or Friday as well to photograph the remaining Southeastern seven coach workings. Thank you for your help.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Sep 2021 ==

Haven't the 375s and 377s still got different couplers (which is why the Southern sets were reclassified originally)?

Originally the 375s had Tightlock couplings and the 377s had Dellner couplings. But the 375s were all modified after a couple years and fitted with Dellner couplings just like the 377s had. So all of the 375s and 377s both use Dellner couplings now.

 

[LA50041]

in case anybody is interested, there is a 4x377 circuit planned this weekend.
Due to depart VIC to three Bridges at 0738, 0946, 1132, 1316, 1946, 2132, and one trip to Brighton at 1502 returning from BTN at 1726

There is a split at the end of the evening so a 9 car returns ECS to Selhurst at 2300 and the other portion attaching to a 377/2 to form a 7 car on 2334 VIC-SRS

 

[galwhv69]

How rare are 6 car 377's doing VIC-WCY during the week?
I'm 99% certain that this was a 6 car when I saw it at Balham on Wednesday

Realtime Trains - 2K62 2106 London Victoria to West Croydon

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[capitalconnect]

in case anybody is interested, there is a 4x377 circuit planned this weekend.
Due to depart VIC to three Bridges at 0738, 0946, 1132, 1316, 1946, 2132, and one trip to Brighton at 1502 returning from BTN at 1726

There is a split at the end of the evening so a 9 car returns ECS to Selhurst at 2300 and the other portion attaching to a 377/2 to form a 7 car on 2334 VIC-SRS

Thank you for posting this. Much appreciated. It has been a long time since i have seen a 4x377/3 formation. I shall definitely be out this weekend to go get some photos of this working. To clarify is this on Saturday or Sunday this weekend? Or on both days?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Oct 2021 ==

How rare are 6 car 377's doing VIC-WCY during the week?
I'm 99% certain that this was a 6 car when I saw it at Balham on Wednesday

Realtime Trains - 2K62 2106 London Victoria to West Croydon

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Yes there are a couple of booked six coach workings as LA50041 mentioned above. I thought they were mostly on weekends but they may occasionally happen during weekdays too if they are short of stock. So it is perfectly possible you saw a six coach formation.

 

[LA50041]

Sorry meant to say Sunday only for the 4x3car working

 

[capitalconnect]

Sorry meant to say Sunday only for the 4x3car working

Thank you. That is perfect. I look forward to seeing it.

 

[Sussex Ben]

A bizarre combination of units seen at Hampden Park 2 years ago.

A 377/6, 377/3 (342 to make it even more unique!) and 377/2. Everything about this formation was rare for the coastway!

I recall travelling on a train with this formation - could even have been this very train as it was a peak London Bridge to Eastbourne service which would have gone through Hampden Park.

Before the service was canned due to the pandemic, it came off Selhurst Depot just for a single peak run. I assume they’d had a few failures that day, so these units were all they could cobble together to ensure it was its usual 12-car formation.

 

[MCR247]

I’m not sure the /6s and /7s can operate with the older ones in service.

 

[NSE]

I’m not sure the /6s and /7s can operate with the older ones in service.

They can I believe. It’s not diagrammed from what I recall but it has happened. People on here have claimed to have been it

 

[louis97]

I’m not sure the /6s and /7s can operate with the older ones in service.

They can, have diagrammed it on numerous occasions.

 

[MCR247]

They can I believe. It’s not diagrammed from what I recall but it has happened. People on here have claimed to have been it

They can, have diagrammed it on numerous occasions.

My mistake, apologies.

 

[RichardKing]

I recall travelling on a train with this formation - could even have been this very train as it was a peak London Bridge to Eastbourne service which would have gone through Hampden Park.

Before the service was canned due to the pandemic, it came off Selhurst Depot just for a single peak run. I assume they’d had a few failures that day, so these units were all they could cobble together to ensure it was its usual 12-car formation.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was the one! In the video it is en route to Lovers Walk as 5H90.

 

[brad465]

In SE land... 6 car (375 3XX x2) are really rare, I've only encountered one once.
7 car are fairly common as are 11/12.
Never experienced a 9 and only a 10 car a couple of times.

I'm certainly not aware of any 12 cars formed of wholly 375/3 stock... although it's worth remembering that SE only have a handful of 375/3 stock. There have been occasions where branch line (particularly the Sheerness line) 375/3 workings have been swapped with standard 4 car 375 units, when 375/3 stock is unavailable for whatever reason.

As there are only 10x 375/3s, of which 5x are reserved for the Medway Valley and Sheerness branches, there isn't much left to be a part of other services. The odd 7 car isn't uncommon, and pre-covid there was an 11-car working from Folkestone-CHX from personal experience. I've been on a 10 car before that was a Ramsgate & Dover Priory splitter, with 2x 3 cars going to/from Ramsgate, but this was before 3 cars largely took over the Medway Valley branch in 2011/12.