BBC News Article - Rail industry urges workers not to spurn the train

[ld0595]

I saw this posted in the Scotrail Industrial Action thread and thought there was merit in creating its own thread.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58502589

Rail industry urges workers not to spurn the train

Unless workers start taking the train again, there could be long-term adverse effects on city centres and High Streets, the rail industry has warned.

Train commuting is still just 33% of its pre-Covid rate, while car journeys have reached pre-pandemic levels, said the Rail Delivery Group (RDG). If workers continued to go by road rather than rail, there would be more pollution, it added. Cities could be hit by a double whammy of traffic jams and business closures.

A 20% shift from rail to road would lead to 300 million extra hours of traffic congestion, the RDG said. "With more workers set to return to offices this month, encouraging people to take the train for their commute will be vital to avoid empty shop fronts and polluting traffic jams in cities across the country," it added.

The RDG said rail journeys to and from work were expected to increase during September, but could take years to return to numbers seen in 2019. It added that train commuters were vital to city centres and High Streets. Research carried out by WPI Economics for the RDG indicated that these commuters spent a total of £30bn a year on food and drink, shopping, entertainment and culture, boosting local businesses.

Andy Bagnall, director general of the Rail Delivery Group, said that for many commuters, the future would undoubtedly involve a mix of home and office working. However, he added the extent to which people returned to the workplace, and whether or not they took the train to get there, would be crucial. "When people take the train, it's more than a journey - it will impact the future of thousands of small businesses, local air quality and the government's net zero ambitions," he said.

The RDG said that although commuting and business journeys by rail were still well below pre-pandemic levels, leisure journeys were recovering more quickly, suggesting that many people felt confident travelling by train. To encourage more people to take the train, the rail industry is running a national marketing campaign with the slogan, "Let's get back on track". Rail companies have also introduced new Flexi Season tickets that provide a discount for commuters travelling into the office two or three days a week.

It's interesting to see some of the reaction online - both with and outwith this forum.

A good point raised in the Scotrail thread is that the article doesn't build a positive case for rail. Rail travel in the UK doesn't have the best reputation. Commuters can often pay thousands for a slow, cramped and unreliable service, and it seems that many people are happy to WFH if they can avoid commuting by train. On shorter leisure journeys, it's also often cheaper and quicker to drive and you have the flexibility to do what you want as opposed to working around the timetable.

Certainly in my experience, taking the train is far less attractive to me for many journeys (though it was hardly attractive pre-Covid). My local station has had its frequency cut from 4 tph to 2tph and reduced to 1tph in the evenings. I also looked at taking a train from Glasgow to Dundee recently for myself and my partner. While I'd love to take the train, the £70 cost for reduced flexibility and a slower overall journey time thanks to poor connections made the train far less attractive compared to driving which was only £20 in fuel. I'll be WFH for the foreseeable future and I only really use the train for occasional trips into Glasgow.

Would be interested to know others' thoughts on the article and how rail should become more attractive.

 

[Darandio]

They could start by stopping the mixed messaging currently being spread around by different parts of the industry. Network Rail recently did a press release informing travellers that during tests on several stations and in different trains, there was no traces of Covid and trains were a fairly safe environment in which to travel. A couple of weeks later the RSSB did their own release stating potentially hundreds of deaths could be caused by people travelling on trains.

If different areas of the industry cannot get on the same page then you cannot build public trust. Considering we are coming out of a pandemic it's clearly at the forefront of minds, it's either safe to travel or it isn't.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I have thought for some time that anyone who has a car will use that in preference to public transport. Late last year, maybe September, I noticed the roads I used to commute on were busier than they ever were pre Covid. That is when I worked it out and I started driving my partner to work even though it meant a detour along two longer sides of a triangle.

I always used to think people commuted to London by train because driving was nearly impossible with little chance of a place to park.

I think most people will always use public transport reluctantly. It will therefore take longer for public transport usage to rise. This is especially true if significant numbers continue to work from home. This will lead to more capacity on the roads and less demand generally so public transport loses twice. The comment about loss of frequency is a good point. Frequency is important. We could be seeing a downward slope taking its ongoing effect.

 

[adc82140]

When the industry (and government) has spent much of the last 18 months telling people to stay off public transport, and the unions going around telling everyone how unsafe it is for their staff (and by default passengers), what did they expect?

 

[Starmill]

If you look at the comments section, the most upvoted ones all refer to value for money. Or rather, the near total absence of it in the passenger railway.

 

[stj]

Too much investment has gone into City centres in recent decades whilst smaller towns have seen none and have very little in the way of public transport.People in these areas can now work from home and bring money into the local economy.Even with high investment most large cities still have high levels of crime and poverty.We now have a chance to balance things out.

 

[yorksrob]

If you look at the comments section, the most upvoted ones all refer to value for money. Or rather, the near total absence of it in the passenger railway.

An extremely good point.

There are so many circumstances where the rail industry doesn't even to attempt to provide good value for money, or forces people to pre plan the minutae of every aspect of their journey just to get a decent fare (even I can't be bothered with it a lot of the time). People want consistently competitive pricing that doesn't restrict them too much and that isn't going to disappear at the drop of a hat when they want to travel, just for the convenience of the railway.

In short, the industry is too dependant on AP tickets and walk on fares are often uncompetitive.

In terms of my commute though, it's the most relaxing it's ever been, due to ease of finding a seat !

 

[Horizon22]

If you look at the comments section, the most upvoted ones all refer to value for money. Or rather, the near total absence of it in the passenger railway.

Yes I did notice that - and also mentioning "good service" and normally some attack on HS2 as well. Quite a few of the commenters are likely to rarely (if ever) use the railway. Obviously fares and reform and reducing complexity are massive issues and need to change in coming years but for some it's just an easy comment to make by lazily checking the fares of a standard anytime ticket which can indeed be eye-watering.

But the focus on commuting is odd - it seems to be as if they're suggesting people would be driving rather than taking the train to work. In London for instance its probably neither and a growth in home working instead which is a risk to all transport modes. A lot of people were a 'captive market' and no longer are.

 

[thealexweb]

The panic is starting to sink in. Like many I used to buy a four figure season ticket and now I commute by car only. Where’s the incentive to go back?

 

[johncrossley]

Even with high investment most large cities still have high levels of crime and poverty.

What's your point here?

 

[richa2002]

I used to be the railway's greatest cheerleader and would use the train wherever possible. It now comes a distant second compared to driving due to comfort (more specifically 800s), prices, lack of connections and what feels like near constant cancellations/delays/short-forms.

Primarily though, I'm frankly not interesed in long distance travel until someone sorts out this god awful trend for ironing board seats & 10 car 'InterCity' EMUs which routinely get cut down to 5. I wonder how many others feel the same?

 

[matt_world2004]

If the rail industry wants people to come back on the train , they need to incentivise people to get back on the train. Including pricing tickets appropriately to get the most yield.

 

[Horizon22]

An extremely good point.

There are so many circumstances where the rail industry doesn't even to attempt to provide good value for money, or forces people to pre plan the minutae of every aspect of their journey just to get a decent fare (even I can't be bothered with it a lot of the time). People want consistently competitive pricing that doesn't restrict them too much and that isn't going to disappear at the drop of a hat when they want to travel, just for the convenience of the railway.

In short, the industry is too dependant on AP tickets and walk on fares are often uncompetitive.

In terms of my commute though, it's the most relaxing it's ever been, due to ease of finding a seat !

I suppose the issue is that some of the railway (local journeys especially in London & SE) are incredibly easy fares-wise with Oyster/Contactless taking out the vast majority of the planning phase and walk-on being just fine. In other places - especially InterCity markets - they do operate more akin to airlines in terms of dynamic prices with most people arranging things in advance.

 

[Starmill]

Quite a few of the commenters are likely to rarely (if ever) use the railway.

Those are of course exactly the people who the railway needs to appeal to...

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standard anytime ticket which can indeed be eye-watering.

And often the only available ticket.

 

[Horizon22]

Those are of course exactly the people who the railway needs to appeal to...

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And often the only available ticket.

Yes but the railway was full to bursting pre-pandemic with only a minority of the population using it. Even with a recovery plan, it still only requires the minority of the population to use it. But of course any way to encourage people to return (or indeed become new users) is vital (especially for peak / anytime fares & differentials) but ultimately I do not that see that coming until some radical fare proposals are actually implemented. Just look at how the flexible 'carnet' ticket was received.

 

[Robertj21a]

Personally, my current concerns with rail travel are usually related to reliability. Too many trains on low frequency routes have been cancelled, or turned short, supposedly due to Covid issues or simple shortage of staff/Union disputes etc. That all needs to be sorted out if I'm going to give up driving my own car.

 

[yorksrob]

I suppose the issue is that some of the railway (local journeys especially in London & SE) are incredibly easy fares-wise with Oyster/Contactless taking out the vast majority of the planning phase and walk-on being just fine. In other places - especially InterCity markets - they do operate more akin to airlines in terms of dynamic prices with most people arranging things in advance.

Well that's one problem. In times gone by, Freddy Laker used to promote his airline by linking it (it was called "Skytrain") to the convenience of the train, but now the train seeks to ape the restrictions of the airline industry !

But even away from the IC routes, the South East genuinely has a Railcard for everyone, it has group save discounts to encourage family travel. Try finding any of those things if you want to take a trip to the seaside in Yorkshire for example. They're not there.

 

[MKB]

I am doing a lot more of my travel by car now, even though I would prefer to take the train.

The reason is simple: the cost of tickets, particularly with Avanti, has rocketed.

The loss of SVH fares, the scarcity of Advance fares in anything but the top fare buckets, if at all, and the reduction in train frequency and much poorer reliability, have been the problems for me.

I have had several recent Avanti trips where I've paid more for standard class than I used to pay for first. Seat Frog is a joke; then I board and walk through deserted first-class carriages. And I know all the ways to minimise my journey cost. I can't imagine how bad it must be for people who buy a simple through ticket without splits, etc.

The railway is broken.

 

[Horizon22]

I am doing a lot more of my travel by car now, even though I would prefer to take the train.

The reason is simple: the cost of tickets, particularly with Avanti, has rocketed.

The loss of SVH fares, the scarcity of Advance fares in anything but the top fare buckets, if at all, and the reduction in train frequency and much poorer reliability, have been the problems for me.

I have had several recent Avanti trips where I've paid more for standard class than I used to pay for first. Seat Frog is a joke; then I board and walk through deserted first-class carriages. The railway is broken.

I wouldn't say the railway is necessarily broken (although its has faults) - but railway fares, quite possibly. And has been for some time. Some people do seem to assume the railway has not at all been affected by the pandemic in terms of staffing / training / resourcing / upgrades but like many other industries it naturally has been.

Without getting too political, there has been an active choice of successive governments to move the cost of running the railway from the taxpayer to the farepayer.

 

[Alteran Ancient]

This has been a problem for a while since before the pandemic - even with commuter railways. Fares increase every 12 months at a rate that either matches or outstrips inflation, whilst there is very little perceivable improvement to the service. If services are irregular and are timetabled such that any connections are hideously inconvenient, then unless your journey connects directly through Central London or your region's main "city hub", a car journey is almost definitely going to be quicker and cheaper.

My local line is now the Hastings Line, and the timetable on it has been notorious for years for not allowing convenient connections with any other line it crosses paths with. You want to change at Orpington to continue to Bromley or Victoria? Have fun waiting the absolute maximum time for the next connection. A journey that should take you 45 minutes ends up taking you 1 hour and 20 minutes and cost you nearly a tenner. The car will do it in 45 minutes for less than a fiver's worth of fuel.

I want to be able to take the train - it should be less hassle than driving, convenient, safe and good value for money. Most of the time, it is none of these things, so how can I convince my family, friends and peers to take the train when I'm struggling to convince myself?

Are there any quick fixes? Maybe not, but we should aim to fix the fares and fix the timetables, at least to start. Public transport should never, ever cost you more versus the equivalent journey in private transport and it also shouldn't be inconvenient to the point where getting in your car is so much more appealing. And I say this as a person who drives.

 

[stj]

What's your point here?

The investment in the "inner cities" was because of crime and poverty,I even remember Thatcher saying it.But it does not appear to have worked.

 

[yorksrob]

The investment in the "inner cities" was because of crime and poverty,I even remember Thatcher saying it.But it does not appear to have worked.

Some inner cities have definitely improved. Some haven't.

 

[Purple Orange]

As an observation, my trains in and out of Manchester have been pretty busy. Not as busy as pre-covid, but between this week last week there has certainly been a marked uptick in crowdedness. Many people are choosing to stand rather than sit right next to someone, buy if all the people who were stood took one of the seats that had been left available, there would still be people left standing. This has all been on 4-car 319s.

 

[johncrossley]

The investment in the "inner cities" was because of crime and poverty,I even remember Thatcher saying it.But it does not appear to have worked.

So do you think there should be more crime in cities?

 

[Horizon22]

As an observation, my trains in and out of Manchester have been pretty busy. Not as busy as pre-covid, but between this week last week there has certainly been a marked uptick in crowdedness. Many people are choosing to stand rather than sit right next to someone, buy if all the people who were stood took one of the seats that had been left available, there would still be people left standing. This has all been on 4-car 319s.

I do wonder when this phenomenon will end or if it will continue long into the future. What used to be "full and standing" is now harder to tell as actually many seats remain unoccupied.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I do wonder when this phenomenon will end or if it will continue long into the future. What used to be "full and standing" is now harder to tell as actually many seats remain unoccupied.

On the south WCML my observation always was that the order of preference was:

1. A double seat
2. Stand in the doorway up to about 6-8 in each doorway
3. Next to someone else
4. Next to someone else in the middle of a 3

 

[Purple Orange]

I do wonder when this phenomenon will end or if it will continue long into the future. What used to be "full and standing" is now harder to tell as actually many seats remain unoccupied.

It’ll end as people keep returning. I am intrigued by the comments from those who have switched from train to car. What sort of journeys are we talking about? I don’t we a situation where driving in to Manchester is better than the tram or train, because the traffic is bloody awful. Perhaps there will be a change in travelling patterns for the long term, where rail travel becomes ever increasingly focussed on travel to large city centres.

 

[Horizon22]

On the south WCML my observation always was that the order of preference was:

1. A double seat
2. Stand in the doorway up to about 6-8 in each doorway
3. Next to someone else
4. Next to someone else in the middle of a 3

Well I've personally hated 3+2 ever since I started taking trains. Don't think 3 people average males can actually fit in there and if it's really that busy its better to be standing in a 2+2. And it wasn't constantly used even pre-pandemic. But anyway this is veering off-topic!

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Perhaps there will be a change in travelling patterns for the long term, where rail travel becomes ever increasingly focussed on travel to large city centres.

That has been a major case for the railways over the last decades: centre to centre travel, commuting from the suburbs that have decent railway links and to some extent rural links that provide a lifeline without any other public transport. We cannot avoid the fact that a business case for public transport is always going to be stronger in more densely populated areas or with connections to big urban centres.

 

[yorksrob]

Well I've personally hated 3+2 ever since I started taking trains. Don't think 3 people average males can actually fit in there and if it's really that busy its better to be standing in a 2+2. And it wasn't constantly used even pre-pandemic. But anyway this is veering off-topic!

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That has been a major case for the railways over the last decades: centre to centre travel, commuting from the suburbs that have decent railway links and to some extent rural links that provide a lifeline without any other public transport. We cannot avoid the fact that a business case for public transport is always going to be stronger in more densely populated areas or with connections to big urban centres.

3+2 (facing) was great in less busy times because you could sit 3 across comfortably !

But yes, I can't see people sitting five abreast again. Northerns 150 layout will be a particular anachronism going forward.

 

[Bishopstone]

I’m not commuting by rail on a Sunday-ish timetable overlaid with ad hoc cancellations. That kind of shenanigans I can put up with for leisure travel, but when I’m working, time is money and stress.

I’m also nervous that there’s going to be lots of industrial action late this year, or early next, around pensions, pay or redundancies - or all three - and having suffered nine months of that in 2016, I’m not going to spend thousands more pounds on a season ticket to become collateral damage (again).