Still a high speed train tho which the original question was what was the best passenger high speed train? Not what was the best InterCity high speed train!
Perhaps it’s just the age demographic. People just like a comfortable seat at a certain age!
If you're travelling long distance then a comfortable seat is not a "nice to have": it's essential. I cannot understand why anyone would think otherwise.
The extra cabin space probably helps - I reckon HS2 trains will feel much more spacious!
Not ridden an e320, but looking at the pictures I'm inclined to agree. Generally UK trains lack consideration for details, including general passenger comfort!
I'd agree with this, perhaps refining to
I'm sure everyone appreciates it, but I can see it becoming a necessity as you age!
Also build quality. I know people blame the TOCs for the state of the 80Xs, but regardless, they feel cheap and brittle to ride, and that's what matters to most people. Then you get the traction split, and the HST has no competition if talking diesel only, whereas electrics have at least 4 popular options. I'm sure if you combined the votes for diesel and electric, electric would win, but since they have more good options, the vote gets split and HST races ahead, pun intended.
Given that the HS2 trains will be designed to run on the conventional network outside of dedicated lines, I am presuming that we will be disappointed in this respect.
There will be captive and compatible train sets - a fair few services will be able to run fully captive!
Hear hear, I raise a glass to that comment
) - the armrest was daft but didn't bother me *that* much, seats were a little better once they aged a bit - but until First er, refurbished them and then they were run into the ground they were still above Voyagers, which are still on top of the misery that's an IET. Never been on a Pendo, I suppose I'd better try one before someone has bright ideas about redoing those too. The Mk4s I only tried twice back in GNER days so they weren't very old, must admit those were pretty comfortable if occasionally giving you a good wakeup smack...Each generation of train seems to get progressively worse to travel in. I wasn't actually that big a fan of HSTs ( I still remember super comfy slightly sagging Mk2 seats with windows in the right place - so even as a kid I appreciated a comfy seat thanks
it depends on what you consider comfortable. It’s not HSTs that people like, it’s just seats. Stick the interior of a pacer train inside the hallowed Mk3 and have that drag you along at 125 mph, you’d soon be complaining about those damn HSTs!
The Pendo is the biggest downside to the Voyager. Still has the same window alignment problem, but the quality is much better. I mean, I like the Voyager, but the difference between the two is still noticeable. In regards to the MK4s, even if they aren't the best, they do everything to a good enough level. Same with the class 91. I know some people put more value on ability to access the whole network (diesel or bi mode), but really, we should be moving to electrify the whole network. If that is the case, the Intercity 225 would be the yardstick other high speed trains should be aiming for.Each generation of train seems to get progressively worse to travel in. I wasn't actually that big a fan of HSTs ( I still remember super comfy slightly sagging Mk2 seats with windows in the right place - so even as a kid I appreciated a comfy seat thanks
I prefer aisle seats if I'm travelling alone - even if someone ends up sitting next to me. No need to play footsie then...
To be fair, if you placed HST seats in a pacer and dragged it along at 125mph, I don't think people would be much impressed either! Still, I'm sure people would be more sympathetic to the pacers than otherwise!
Voyagers have much bigger windows though, so that's a tick in their box
I admit, the regular passenger does like bigger windows, as it lets in more light and makes the carriage feel bigger than it actually is, but, they also like refinement in comfort. They want to be whisked away at high speed, and not even feel it, for the most part. Sure, a train enthusiast loves the noise and vibration, it makes a train feel alive. But, for the average passenger, they hate that, and if we say general consensus means even none train people, then the Pendo pulls ahead due to said refinement and comfort.
I was trying to highlight that it's not an overwhelming win for the 390s, especially as I don't find the noise of the Voyagers that objectionable inside when compared to say Sprinters. The biggest compliant about the Voyagers is that they're too small, which is hardly the fault of the train.
The seats just need some cushioning and then they would be absolutely fine!
Oh god Sprinter noise is truly objectionable.
Oh 158/9s have aged brilliantly - the vestibule/bathroom areas could do with a proper refurb across the fleet, but generally they feel like brand new trains still!
I'd argue that the ride quality of the mk4s was far worse than a HST, and sometimes worse at 125mph than a Pacer at 75mph (assuming the track quality was comparable in both cases). In all other areas I agree that the mk4 knocked the HSTs into a cocked hat. But that's one of the problems with these discussions, what's good for one person might not be for the next.
Agreed. A lot of people ignore accessibility for example. I for one have never understood how you can call something the best if not everyone can easily use it.
