Bus Manufacturer News & Discussion

[Snow1964]

The devil will I think being the detail. Will they be able to maintain a high quality build if they start doing larger numbers? Will they be easily maintained and reliable and liked by drivers passengers and managers? will they live up to the expectations of the people who bought them? If a company buys a large fleet say 30 in one go and has them on the road for 18 months where they haven't had any major issues and aren't rattling themselves to pieces like some other manufacturers and are generally well received by everyone who has to have anything to do with them then they could be on to a winner.

The electric and hydrogen versions should be fairly immune from rattling themselves to pieces.

But it does seem to be a problem with buses fitted with 4 cylinder Diesel engines especially when idling.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The electric and hydrogen versions should be fairly immune from rattling themselves to pieces.

But it does seem to be a problem with buses fitted with 4 cylinder Diesel engines especially when idling.

You might think so but I was quite disappointed with the Transdev Volvo 7900E that they have in Harrogate. Quite a number of body rattles for a three year old machine.

 

[scosutsut]

It will be interesting to see what happens with Bamford/Wrightbus, as Wright's upset and lost and lot of big volume customers. I think you'll measure progress by how many of those they win back.

The Streetlite should have got the name Kite, as they could then be referred to as Tom Kite's after the golfer, which in turn means "sh*te" up my way!

 

[Swanny200]

It will be interesting to see what happens with Bamford/Wrightbus, as Wright's upset and lost and lot of big volume customers. I think you'll measure progress by how many of those they win back.

The Streetlite should have got the name Kite, as they could then be referred to as Tom Kite's after the golfer, which in turn means "sh*te" up my way!

That was what I was trying to kind of get at earlier. There were complaints when the latest Wrights bodied vehicles came out before the takeover, regardless of drivetrain. The bodies look exactly the same as before, so a lot of the companies that went elsewhere because of those issues will not be swayed by a hydrogen or electric drivetrain.

Bamford, remember is from the family that supported brexit and got a large chunk of government money for it. He wants to be the British Elon Musk which therefore answers my question in a similar vein to Elon Musk's cars.... You cannot polish a large smelly turd and call it an award winning bus that is going to be the saviour of all our futures.

In 5 years I will happily eat my words if there are thousands of Hawks, Streetliners, Electroliners and other Bamford creations running around the UK and beyond, that do not rattle around like a bucket of bolts or are off the road because there is not the infrastructure for it.

Also bear in mind that the same person who helped fund this venture is our all glorious Prime Minister who wants the majority of this country to be heated by Hydrogen instead of Gas in the next 10 or so years.Where in the hell are we supposed to be getting all this Hydrogen from?

 

[Blindtraveler]

If I were in the position of marketing new drivetrains Burt with old style bodywork, perhaps better built this time however based on some comments from posters earlier in the thread, I would be concentrating on on getting a decent fleet of demonstrators built and and encouraging operators to try them. Whilst people like Lothian buses might have recently switched to a DL they are not using any of their full integral products but I'll still buying things on a Volvo drivetrain. And when it came to single decks they bought MCV. I'm sure that despite the problems they've had with their most recent batches of wright vehicles they would be more than willing to try a demonstrator of the new generation ones and might even buy a few. An operation like east coast buses for example might be an ideal place for a few hydrogen vehicles


We are certainly at the start of some interesting times

 

[Tom Gallacher]

That was what I was trying to kind of get at earlier. There were complaints when the latest Wrights bodied vehicles came out before the takeover, regardless of drivetrain. The bodies look exactly the same as before, so a lot of the companies that went elsewhere because of those issues will not be swayed by a hydrogen or electric drivetrain.

Bamford, remember is from the family that supported brexit and got a large chunk of government money for it. He wants to be the British Elon Musk which therefore answers my question in a similar vein to Elon Musk's cars.... You cannot polish a large smelly turd and call it an award winning bus that is going to be the saviour of all our futures.

In 5 years I will happily eat my words if there are thousands of Hawks, Streetliners, Electroliners and other Bamford creations running around the UK and beyond, that do not rattle around like a bucket of bolts or are off the road because there is not the infrastructure for it.

Also bear in mind that the same person who helped fund this venture is our all glorious Prime Minister who wants the majority of this country to be heated by Hydrogen instead of Gas in the next 10 or so years.Where in the hell are we supposed to be getting all this Hydrogen from?

That will also be the same Prime Minister who has been getting £20k a month from the Bamford family for god only knows what.

Who is the Brexit-supporting Lord Bamford of JCB fame?

Bulldozer maker paid Boris Johnson £10k for a speech and David Davis £60k for advice

www.theguardian.com

House of Commons - The Register of Members' Financial Interests (28 September 2020: Johnson, Boris )

publications.parliament.uk

House of Commons - The Register of Members' Financial Interests (20 May 2019: Johnson, Boris )

publications.parliament.uk

 

[Mikey C]

If I were in the position of marketing new drivetrains Burt with old style bodywork, perhaps better built this time however based on some comments from posters earlier in the thread, I would be concentrating on on getting a decent fleet of demonstrators built and and encouraging operators to try them. Whilst people like Lothian buses might have recently switched to a DL they are not using any of their full integral products but I'll still buying things on a Volvo drivetrain. And when it came to single decks they bought MCV. I'm sure that despite the problems they've had with their most recent batches of wright vehicles they would be more than willing to try a demonstrator of the new generation ones and might even buy a few. An operation like east coast buses for example might be an ideal place for a few hydrogen vehicles


We are certainly at the start of some interesting times

I still think Wrights and Optare made a mistake by giving up bodying other chassis, especially when ADL have been happy to work with Volvo on those 3 axle double deckers or BYD on electric buses.

East Lancs had decent double decker business in London bodying Volvo and Scanias, which Optare gave up.

Wrights had an excellent reputation bodying Volvo, VDL and Scanias. It's a major step to go from bodywork to integral buses...

 

[F Great Eastern]

East Lancs were not doing so well in the later years though, especially when Scania was pushing their own integral vehicles for the London market.

The Scania N230/N270 range was not in the same class as the N94 range that it replaced in many peoples eyes also in terms of reliability.

 

[Beemax]

I think it would be commercial suicide for any whole-bus manufacturer to be reliant on diesel (or any internal combustion) propulsion, which is likely to go the way of the manual typewriter. I’m a bit of a battery car sceptic because of issues such as range and recharging options (particularly for flat-dwellers) but for a city bus operator with reasonable depot space and a bit of investment these should not be issues. Experience of operations on London should show that battery operation is feasible and provides passenger advantages (even ignoring the fact that they may become de-facto compulsory in the future) Wright could of course couple up with a Chinese manufacturer to provide the electric drivetrain/chassis but strategically I don’t think that’s the right way to go.

 

[GusB]

There's going to be another entry into the UK electric bus market, according to this:

Quantron zero-emission bus platform set for UK in 2022 - routeone

German e-mobility specialist Quantron has confirmed that its zero-emission bus platform will be offered in the UK from 2022.

www.route-one.net

German e-mobility specialist Quantron has confirmed that it plans to offer its zero-emission 12m single-deck bus in the UK market, starting in 2022. The platform will be available with both battery-electric and hydrogen fuel cell-electric power.

Quantron says that in battery-electric form, the model will have a “similar” pricing point to a comparable diesel bus. The bus will be offered in close co-operation with Quantron investor and strategic partner EvDynamics, which specialises in zero-emission mobility.

Batteries will be from CATL and the hydrogen fuel cells from Ballard. EvDynamics CEO Miguel Valldecabres Polop says that the driveline technology to be employed by Quantron in the bus platform has already been used successfully in “several thousand” vehicles that are in service in Asia.

Battery-electric examples will have a claimed range of up to 280km thanks to a battery capacity of up to 422kW/h, although 242, 281 and 363 kW/h of storage will also be available. Charging will be by DC at up to 80kW, delivered via a CCS2 socket, with a replenishment time of between three and six hours. A 250kW motor will be used and the GVW will be 19,500kg.

Specifications released by Quantron show that the battery-electric bus will have a capacity of between 71 and 95 passengers. It adds that equipment for driver and passenger comfort, as well as the interior and exterior design, will be available in a wide range of specifications and style “to meet individual customer requirements.”

In addition to the UK, the Quantron platform will be offered in other right-hand drive markets, a spokesperson has confirmed.

I have to admit that this is a company I'd never heard of until now. It'll be interesting to see how a relatively unknown name will fare over here.

 

[Mikey C]

I don't get what these start ups can offer over the existing bus manufacturers other than Tesla style valuation hype. They have no monopoly over the battery technology, and don't have the years of experience in making buses or indeed complicated road vehicles that the existing manufacturers have

 

[MotCO]

I don't get what these start ups can offer over the existing bus manufacturers other than Tesla style valuation hype. They have no monopoly over the battery technology, and don't have the years of experience in making buses or indeed complicated road vehicles that the existing manufacturers have

Nor any established after sales support services. Think about ADL's exclusion from Ireland when Volvo had a virtual monopoly - it took Wright's temporary demise to allow ADL to get a foothold in the country.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I don't see any harm in there being competition in the market and and let's be honest, we have a choice of 4 or perhaps 5, maybe 6 known manufacturers of bus shaped objects powered by diesel at the moment so so why then when does the zero emission market have to have less choice in it? If I owned a bus company and decided I wanted to purchase a zero emission vehicle, at the moment I would either have to wait for a build slot with yutong, put my trust in an as-yet untried over a long period of time offering from write or buy some cheap nasty rattling creaking plastic junk from Alexander Dennis. I personally wouldn't touch option three if it was the last bus on sale anywhere in the market. I quite like the product from wright but have not been on one and my favourite so far is yutong who appear heavily committed with the go ahead and McGill's orders



A new start-up or indeed several new startups coming into the market and winning orders from small independent bus operators is the way that they will get them self established. The after sales and other such things will come once they actually have some stuff out on the roads in service

 

[Arriva Fan]

I don't see any harm in there being competition in the market and and let's be honest, we have a choice of 4 or perhaps 5, maybe 6 known manufacturers of bus shaped objects powered by diesel at the moment so so why then when does the zero emission market have to have less choice in it? If I owned a bus company and decided I wanted to purchase a zero emission vehicle, at the moment I would either have to wait for a build slot with yutong, put my trust in an as-yet untried over a long period of time offering from write or buy some cheap nasty rattling creaking plastic junk from Alexander Dennis. I personally wouldn't touch option three if it was the last bus on sale anywhere in the market. I quite like the product from wright but have not been on one and my favourite so far is yutong who appear heavily committed with the go ahead and McGill's orders



A new start-up or indeed several new startups coming into the market and winning orders from small independent bus operators is the way that they will get them self established. The after sales and other such things will come once they actually have some stuff out on the roads in service

Not forgetting the best of them all, the eCitaro.

Price is all that will stop this being the most sold zero emissions option. But as with the Diesel Citaro, you get what you pay for.

 

[MotCO]

Not forgetting the best of them all, the eCitaro.

Price is all that will stop this being the most sold zero emissions option. But as with the Diesel Citaro, you get what you pay for.

But hopefully without the self-combustion feature.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I wasn't aware they were actually making this hence my not listing it. I should imagine that it's a thumping good bus, I'm a big fan of the diesel version.

 

[F Great Eastern]

But hopefully without the self-combustion feature.

A vastly exaggerated problem for the world's best selling bus of all-time.

The Citaro will shortly hit 60,000 sold.

 

[Goldfish62]

A vastly exaggerated problem for the world's best selling bus of all-time.

The Citaro will shortly hit 60,000 sold.

Exactly. Ridiculous that this is still being mentioned.

 

[hst43102]

A vastly exaggerated problem for the world's best selling bus of all-time.

The Citaro will shortly hit 60,000 sold.

Probably more of a maintenance problem. Singapore (also a RHD market) has well over a thousand of them and AFAIK only one has been written off through a fire.

 

[cnjb8]

Not forgetting the best of them all, the eCitaro.

Price is all that will stop this being the most sold zero emissions option. But as with the Diesel Citaro, you get what you pay for.

Wasn’t it mentioned on the McGills thread that the eCitaro had poor build quality?

 

[Man of Kent]

If I owned a bus company and decided I wanted to purchase a zero emission vehicle, at the moment I would either have to wait for a build slot with yutong, put my trust in an as-yet untried over a long period of time offering from write or buy some cheap nasty rattling creaking plastic junk from Alexander Dennis.

There's always Switch Mobility or Caetano with existing products, plus Arrival possibly coming soon. I'm not sure if Go-Ahead have placed a firm order with Van Hool - there have been artist's impressions certainly - while Mellor and EVM offer smaller alternatives, so definitely more than three choices already.

 

[CN04NRJ]

You might think so but I was quite disappointed with the Transdev Volvo 7900E that they have in Harrogate. Quite a number of body rattles for a three year old machine.

Just wait until they get to 7/8 years old, Lothian's ones are a real treat - especially on cobbled streets!

 

[Blindtraveler]

The Lothian 7900 are truly terrible and the fact that the the fleet on city services now only contains two single deck types and one of those is pretty much permanently confined to the service 30 is a little sad because if I make a single that journey on any other route I know I'm going to get one of these horrible machines with horrible hard nasty seats, air conditioning that doesn't work and as pointed out enough rattles to fill an early years Centre

 

[MotCO]

I'm not sure if Go-Ahead have placed a firm order with Van Hool - there have been artist's impressions certainly

There was talk of Go-Ahead's Metrobus subsidiary ordering Irizar le Tram with panotograph chargers at the terminals for route 358 (Orpington to Crystal Palace), but not sure if the order has been placed.

 

[TRAX]

Probably more of a maintenance problem. Singapore (also a RHD market) has well over a thousand of them and AFAIK only one has been written off through a fire.

It wasn’t maintenance, it was a known issue - oil dripping on the exhaust - that was corrected ages ago and which affected a tiny minority of buses.

 

[Man of Kent]

There was talk of Go-Ahead's Metrobus subsidiary ordering Irizar le Tram with panotograph chargers at the terminals for route 358 (Orpington to Crystal Palace), but not sure if the order has been placed.

Thank you - I confused the Van Hool Exquicity with the Irizar product - they are not dissimilar looking (and I've seen neither in the flesh).

 

[Volvodart]

Wrightbus unveiling two new zero emissions buses​

https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/wrightbus-unveiling-two-new-zero-21631206

The Ballymena firm's double deckers are already transporting folk around Belfast in a climate-friendly way​

The minds behind the world’s first hydrogen powered double decker are unveiling two new zero emissions buses at the world-famous Millbrook Proving Ground this week.
Wrightbus zero-emissions double deckers are already transporting Belfast and Dublin's public in a climate-friendly way.

Now the Co Antrim firm Wrightbus will showcase its new single deck GB Kite Hydroliner bus at the Cenex LCV21 - Low Carbon Vehicle - event on September 22 and 23.
The same technology solution will also power a new single deck GB Kite Electroliner battery powered bus.
Jo Bamford, Wrightbus Executive Chairman, said: “We’re proud to be at the very forefront of zero-emission bus manufacturing.

“The creation of our new single-deck hydrogen and single-deck electric battery buses means Wrightbus is proud to be the only UK manufacturer currently able to offer four zero-emission vehicles to the market - which include the Hydroliner, the first hydrogen double decker bus in the world.”

The new single deck buses are expected to go into production in 2022 and will be available across the UK and Ireland.
“We’re delighted to be showcasing the new technology at LCV21,” added Mr Bamford.

“It’s vital that the transport industry continues to take strides to reduce its CO2 emissions to enable the UK to achieve its ambitious net-zero goals, and LCV21 gives the perfect platform to share the very latest innovations.
“The funding from the ARMD (Advanced Propulsion Centre’s Advanced Route to Market Demonstrator) competition has been invaluable in allowing us to develop the technology for our two new zero-emission single-decks at considerable pace."
Both GB Kite models can carry 90 passengers.

THe Hydroliner has a range of up to 640 miles while the Electroliner up to 300 miles on a single charge, while the fastest charging version can be charged in just 2.5 hours.
Both buses share 86% of parts with their Double Deck sisters which delivers significant benefits to operators in terms of reducing complexity and costs for fleet maintenance.

“We’re continuing to invest not only in employees, but in the technological advances that will keep our buses at the very pinnacle of the industry,” said Mr Bamford.
Wrightbus recently announced the creation of up to 300 permanent jobs after winning a string of orders from the UK and Ireland.

The Ballymena firm says it is also converting 120 existing temporary jobs into permanent positions as it looks to ramp up production at its Ballymena headquarters.
“I’m proud to say Wrightbus is firmly back in business, creating jobs not just in Northern Ireland but indirectly across the UK supply chain,” added Jo.

 

[jammy36]

Another manufacturer looking to offer a RHD zero emissions double decker is Equipmake who've partnered with Beulas to produce the Jewel E.

Jewel E offers the longest range of any electric double decker bus

A new entrant has rolled into the electric bus game and might just take things to the next level, taking the shape of a big and bright red people-mover with claims of unparalleled range. The newly introduced Jewel E electric bus boasts the largest battery and longest range of any electric double…

newatlas.com

Jewel E offers the longest range of any electric double decker bus

A new entrant has rolled into the electric bus game and might just take things to the next level, taking the shape of a big and bright red people-mover with claims of unparalleled range. The newly introduced Jewel E electric bus boasts the largest battery and longest range of any electric double decker bus in the world, with testing to kick off later this year.

We're seeing some interesting developments when it comes to electrification of bus transport, from the 40-ft (12-m) behemoth being developed by BYD in China, to long-range versions capable of covering 600 miles (965 km) on a single charge, to the zero-emission school buses taking shape in California. BYD also actually developed the world's first electric double decker bus for use in London, which rolled out in 2016 with a 345-kWh battery pack offering a 190-mile (305-km) range.

The incoming Jewel E marks a sizable step forward for the technology, helped along by the handiwork of Equipmake, producer of the world's most power-dense electric motor. The British company developed a purpose-built powertrain for the cutting-edge electric bus, equipping it with a massive 543-kWh battery, the largest ever fitted to a single-axle double decker bus, allowing for a maximum range of up to 250 miles (402 km).

This so-called Zero Emission Drivetrain produces a maximum torque of 3,500 Nm (2,581 lb-ft) and power output of 400 kW. It also uses a water-glycol cooling circuit to regulate the temperature of the motor, inverter and battery to optimize the overall efficiency of the vehicle. The bright red body, meanwhile, is produced by Spanish coachbuilder Beulas.“

Improving urban air quality is a global problem," says Ian Foley, Managing Director of Equipmake. "At the same time, operators want vehicles that are cost-effective and highly efficient, while governments and local bodies need bus manufacturers to bring advanced technology to market quickly. Equipmake has taken all of this into account and the result is our innovative new EV double decker, Jewel E."

The Jewel E is set to undergo testing in the fourth quarter of 2021 with in-service trials to follow in the first quarter of next year. Sales and manufacturing will also kick off in 2022.

Plus there's the long awaited new electric Volvo/MCV decker, of which at least one pre-production (?) example for Metroline has been pictured.

 

[MotCO]

The London Omnibus Traction Society reports that two of the Metrodeckers from Reading's cancelled order are passing to Central Connect. Two are already at Johnsons, and the other one will be used by Optare as a development vehicle.

(Source: LOTS monthly magazine)

 

[LOL The Irony]

Another manufacturer looking to offer a RHD zero emissions double decker is Equipmake who've partnered with Beulas to produce the Jewel E.

Now there's a surprise player.