Til Mitigation

[JXVB]

Hi all,
Back at the end of may i was caught with an invalid ticket (i bought it after getting off the train) I was fully in the wrong, was polite with the person who stopped me and honest as to be honest I wasn't going to pay but i did at the end. So i am guilty but he said as it was my first time doing this and have been a customer on the exact same journey for over 2 years the offer of a admin payment is likely. I then spoke to someone from the prosecutions team who basically advised me on what to put on my letter and said to mention about me going to uni this year as one thing they consider is impact on future. The reason i am here is while I'm fairly confident about what to put in my letter I don't know weather it is a smart choice to say something like " i was was caught without a ticket, despite knowing this was wrong..." as obviously this is admitting fully what I have done and could make it easier for them to go straight to court. Just looking for a small bit of advise, in coming days will post a draft of letter.

Yes i know what i done was wrong, I dodged a £10 ticket and thought if I bought it after would be okay, lesson learnt. only reason I did it to be honest was because oi know people who dodge all the time and like 99% of the time the barriers at this station are never even up and got fed up of being the only person to pay, poor decision making and not a mistake so do not know if i should say something like this in my letter.

Typed this in a bit of a rush so if anything is unclear just say

 

[JXVB]

Hi all,
Was wondering if I could have some help with my mitigation letter, I know roughly what to do but would appreciate any help.
The Event: Back in late may I bought my ticket after getting off the train (because i realised i hadn't and saw the barriers were down for a change and needed to buy one), I was stopped by a member of revenue protection staff whom I admitted to what I had done. I was advised about what would happen next and spoken to by a member of the prosecutions team who told me to address the letter to him and mention going to uni as they consider the impact on future. This was a one time thing and something I have never done before , below is my first draft. Any help appreciated i am desperate to keep the cost of a lawyer out due to moving into London soon and having to pay ridiculous rent.

I am writing you today in reply to a letter sent to me about the event that took place, in X station On X May of which it is my deepest regret that it was myself involved. I would like to start by expressing my deepest apologies, I have now taken the time to research the damaging affects to your company caused by not buying a ticket, this is something i never usually do as for the past 2 years I have been using your trains I always purchased my tickets in advanced and ensured I am eligible to travel on your trains. I am eager to settle out of court, I have gotten into my dream university and having never previously step a foot wrong in my life have worked tirelessly to get into. I understand that i am in the wrong and i am willing to cover the cost of my fare and any other administration costs you have incurred because of me ass well as any fee you beleive necessary. I am eager for your response.

MY NAME
ADDRESS

 

[LCC106]

Welcome to the forum!

I've put below the advice I normally give to people who request help from the forum in similar circumstances to yours.

You are likely to receive a letter from the train company (or an investigation company acting on their behalf) which will probably take a few weeks to arrive saying that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company would be well within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be around £100 plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

The 4 bullet points in this post from Hadders on another thread are relevant to you. Keep it succinct. Don’t talk about deepest regret and deepest apologies, having never put a foot wrong etc. Just apologise, say what the experience has taught you, that this won’t happen again, wish to settle out of court and offer to pay the admin costs etc. as Hadders refers to above. Hope it’s ok to lift a quote from another post and hope all works out for you.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi all,
Was wondering if I could have some help with my mitigation letter, I know roughly what to do but would appreciate any help.
The Event: Back in late may I bought my ticket after getting off the train (because i realised i hadn't and saw the barriers were down for a change and needed to buy one), I was stopped by a member of revenue protection staff whom I admitted to what I had done. I was advised about what would happen next and spoken to by a member of the prosecutions team who told me to address the letter to him and mention going to uni as they consider the impact on future. This was a one time thing and something I have never done before , below is my first draft. Any help appreciated i am desperate to keep the cost of a lawyer out due to moving into London soon and having to pay ridiculous rent.

I am writing you today in reply to a letter sent to me about the event that took place, in X station On X May of which it is my deepest regret that it was myself involved. I would like to start by expressing my deepest apologies, I have now taken the time to research the damaging affects to your company caused by not buying a ticket, this is something i never usually do as for the past 2 years I have been using your trains I always purchased my tickets in advanced and ensured I am eligible to travel on your trains. I am eager to settle out of court, I have gotten into my dream university and having never previously step a foot wrong in my life have worked tirelessly to get into. I understand that i am in the wrong and i am willing to cover the cost of my fare and any other administration costs you have incurred because of me ass well as any fee you beleive necessary. I am eager for your response.

MY NAME
ADDRESS

I agree with LCC106. Maybe more focus on apology than on how you have never done anything wrong before (yet decided the first victim of your wrongdoing is the railway....). Also v minor point but 'gotten' is not a UK English word, but I guess no problem to use it is you are from the USA.
But good luck with this, I think you are heading in the correct direction with your draft, just adjust it a bit.

 

[AlterEgo]

Hi all,
Was wondering if I could have some help with my mitigation letter, I know roughly what to do but would appreciate any help.
The Event: Back in late may I bought my ticket after getting off the train (because i realised i hadn't and saw the barriers were down for a change and needed to buy one), I was stopped by a member of revenue protection staff whom I admitted to what I had done. I was advised about what would happen next and spoken to by a member of the prosecutions team who told me to address the letter to him and mention going to uni as they consider the impact on future. This was a one time thing and something I have never done before , below is my first draft. Any help appreciated i am desperate to keep the cost of a lawyer out due to moving into London soon and having to pay ridiculous rent.

I am writing you today in reply to a letter sent to me about the event that took place, in X station On X May of which it is my deepest regret that it was myself involved. I would like to start by expressing my deepest apologies, I have now taken the time to research the damaging affects to your company caused by not buying a ticket, this is something i never usually do as for the past 2 years I have been using your trains I always purchased my tickets in advanced and ensured I am eligible to travel on your trains. I am eager to settle out of court, I have gotten into my dream university and having never previously step a foot wrong in my life have worked tirelessly to get into. I understand that i am in the wrong and i am willing to cover the cost of my fare and any other administration costs you have incurred because of me ass well as any fee you beleive necessary. I am eager for your response.

MY NAME
ADDRESS

The train company doesn't care about you or your circumstances. They are just looking for a financial settlement out of court. Do not tell them you are super motivated to keep it out of court. Keep it simple; don't prostrate yourself or use stuff like "deepest regret" or "expressing deepest apologies" which are reserved for when something really serious has happened. Failing to pay a train fare is a minor matter, but one which still needs resolving.

A better letter goes:

Thank you for your letter of [X DATE]

I can confirm that it was me who was stopped by your inspector at X STATION on X DATE without a valid ticket.

I am sorry that this incident has caused inconvenience and loss to you, and have learned it is my responsibility to always travel with a valid ticket. I will ensure in future I buy my tickets in advance or at the first available opportunity on my journey.

By way of resolution, I am offering to pay the outstanding fare, as well as any costs you have incurred, in order for us to settle the matter without resorting to the courts. I would be grateful if you could confirm by response what this sum would be.

I look forward to your response.

SIGNED

 

[island]

You’ve not mentioned which train company was involved but it sounds like you’ve done mostly all the right steps (besides fare dodging to start with ).

I would not suggest to admitting your offence in the terms you mention, simply stick to the facts that you omitted to buy a ticket before boarding and sought to buy a “wrong” one, then offer to pay the avoided fare and the costs involved.

Most train companies do not bring run of the mill first time offenders to court, they will usually settle for around £100 they just want to put the scarers on so you don’t do it in future – which I hope will be the case!

 

[JXVB]

I'm going to use the guideline you have provided me, however under the advise of the member of staff i spoke to on the day will ad in a small section saying I am going to university this year, only because h said to do this.


The 'gotten' mistake is just where unfortunately my mother is American so I pick up here accent and dialect sometimes so kind of sucks for me



Thank you for your letter of [X DATE]

I can confirm that it was me who was stopped by your inspector at X STATION on X DATE without a valid ticket.

I am sorry that this incident has caused inconvenience and loss to you, and have learned it is my responsibility to always travel with a valid ticket. I will ensure in future I buy my tickets in advance or at the first available opportunity on my journey.

By way of resolution, I am offering to pay the outstanding fare, as well as any costs you have incurred, in order for us to settle the matter without resorting to the courts. I would be grateful if you could confirm by response what this sum would be. I ask you to consider this as my plan is t go to university this year having achieved the necessary criteria, a criminal record would ultimately stop this happening.
I look forward to your response.

SIGNED

I am planning to send this either Monday or Friday(tomorrow) well within my deadline of 21days and an allowance of 5 business days even though i plan to send 1st class, thank you for all the help! if you think anything is off with this reply please do let me know.

 

[JXVB]

You’ve not mentioned which train company was involved but it sounds like you’ve done mostly all the right steps (besides fare dodging to start with ).

I would not suggest to admitting your offence in the terms you mention, simply stick to the facts that you omitted to buy a ticket before boarding and sought to buy a “wrong” one, then offer to pay the avoided fare and the costs involved.

Most train companies do not bring run of the mill first time offenders to court, they will usually settle for around £100 they just want to put the scarers on so you don’t do it in future – which I hope will be the case!

yeah stupid choice on my end, its just annoying that the 1 time in the 2 years I have been using this station they decide to put the barriers down and have staff there, I've never seen them before and this was a regular journey + time for me, even worse is that i was so uncomfortable the whole journey about doing it, guess I just wanted to prove to myself that I could do it( I definitely cant, felt awful and feel awful about it) but I guess you live and you learn, I didn't think the consequences through and quickly resumed my normal habits

 

[WesternLancer]

yeah stupid choice on my end, its just annoying that the 1 time in the 2 years I have been using this station they decide to put the barriers down and have staff there,

Not my intention to be harshly critical, but maybe read that back to yourself....do you mean it would not be annoying if you got away with it?

Whereas it may be annoying to the railway staff who next time there is a round of cuts due to income reduction get listed for redundancy, or annoying for other passengers who have to pay a little bit extra on their fares because you didn't want to pay for yours?

My advice would be you need to be sincere in your apology, as in actually realise it was the wrong thing to do. I think you do realise that, but you probably need to show that.

 

[JXVB]

Maybe read that back to yourself....you mean it would not be annoying if you got away with it?

Whereas it may be annoying to the railway staff who next time there is a round of cuts due to income reduction get listed for redundancy, or annoying for other passengers who have to pay a little bit extra on their fares because you didn't want to pay for yours?

My advice would be you need to be sincere in your apology, as in actually realise it was the wrong thing to do. I think you do realise that, but you probably need to show that.

I more meant its annoying that the one time I made that choice, and it was a choice, given the fact that I am usually one who pays the annoyance is that I made the choice, irrespective of weather I had got caught I feel like I would've had a feeling of guilt loom over me. Unfortunately I cannot go back and undo my action so now deservedly have to face the consequence, i think ill take time with the letter as to portray the right message. i know what i mean but obviously as you have pointed out I'm not putting it across correctly so will take this into note.

 

[WesternLancer]

I more meant its annoying that the one time I made that choice, and it was a choice, given the fact that I am usually one who pays the annoyance is that I made the choice, irrespective of weather I had got caught I feel like I would've had a feeling of guilt loom over me. Unfortunately I cannot go back and undo my action so now deservedly have to face the consequence, i think ill take time with the letter as to portray the right message. i know what i mean but obviously as you have pointed out I'm not putting it across correctly so will take this into note.

Thanks for your reply and explanation. Yes may be a bit of an edit. And BTW - good luck with getting this sorted out, it does not sound like it was in your character to do this.

 

[JXVB]

Thanks for your reply and explanation. Yes may be a bit of an edit. And BTW - good luck with getting this sorted out, it does not sound like it was in your character to do this.

Thank you for your letter of [X DATE]

I can confirm that it was me who was stopped by your inspector at X STATION on X DATE without a valid ticket.

I am sorry that this incident has caused inconvenience and loss to you, I have taken the time to research the effects of this on you as a company and have learned it is my responsibility to always travel with a valid ticket. I will ensure in future I buy my tickets in advance or at the first available opportunity before initiating my journey.

By way of resolution, I am offering to pay the outstanding fare, as well as any costs you have incurred, in order for us to settle the matter without resorting to the courts. I would be grateful if you could confirm by response what this sum would be. I ask you to consider this as my plan is to go to university this year having achieved the necessary criteria, a criminal record would ultimately stop this happening.
I look forward to your response.

Any comments on this before I write up tomorrow? going to hopefully send it tomorrow and have this resolved soon, although they accept a scanned form of letter through email so may try that as to avoid using mail and having access to my copy of the letter. Any help appreciated

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you for your letter of [X DATE]

I can confirm that it was me who was stopped by your inspector at X STATION on X DATE without a valid ticket.

I am sorry that this incident has caused inconvenience and loss to you, I have taken the time to research the effects of this on you as a company and have learned it is my responsibility to always travel with a valid ticket. I will ensure in future I buy my tickets in advance or at the first available opportunity before initiating my journey.

By way of resolution, I am offering to pay the outstanding fare, as well as any costs you have incurred, in order for us to settle the matter without resorting to the courts. I would be grateful if you could confirm by response what this sum would be. I ask you to consider this as my plan is to go to university this year having achieved the necessary criteria, a criminal record would ultimately stop this happening.
I look forward to your response.

Any comments on this before I write up tomorrow? going to hopefully send it tomorrow and have this resolved soon, although they accept a scanned form of letter through email so may try that as to avoid using mail and having access to my copy of the letter. Any help appreciated

I would think that is a good draft to use.

 

[221129]

Take out the stuff about uni. They seriously don't care, and they'll be wondering if it was that important to you then why did you choose to do it.

 

[Titfield]

Probably being pedantic but I would change "inconvenience and loss" to "financial loss and inconvenience". IMHO financial loss should come first as that is probably more important to the railway company than the inconvenience you have caused them.

TBH I am not even sure if "inconvenience" is the correct word to describe this issue. "Additional work" may be a better way of describing it.

 

[JXVB]

Probably being pedantic but I would change "inconvenience and loss" to "financial loss and inconvenience". IMHO financial loss should come first as that is probably more important to the railway company than the inconvenience you have caused them.

TBH I am not even sure if "inconvenience" is the correct word to describe this issue. "Additional work" may be a better way of describing it.

I can confirm that it was me who was stopped by your inspector at X STATION on X DATE without a valid ticket.

I am sorry that this incident has caused financial loss and additional work and inconvenience to you , I have taken the time to research the effects of this on you as a company and now understand the damaging effects this can have and have learned it is my responsibility to always travel with a valid ticket. I will ensure in future I buy my tickets in advance or at the first available opportunity before initiating my journey.

By way of resolution, I am offering to pay the outstanding fare, as well as any costs you have incurred as well as any other fee's you deem necessary, in order for us to settle the matter without resorting to the courts. I would be grateful if you could confirm by response what this sum would be.
I look forward to your response.

Any notes on this? taken the uni stuff out and have changed the grammar a tad
Also it might sound dumb but I was going to write this out by hand, would it be more advisable to type and print?

 

[30907]

Take out the stuff about uni. They seriously don't care, and they'll be wondering if it was that important to you then why did you choose to do it.

Agreed, and it is highly unlikely anyway that a conviction for travel without a valid ticket would affect your university admission or career path.

 

[JXVB]

You’ve not mentioned which train company was involved but it sounds like you’ve done mostly all the right steps (besides fare dodging to start with ).

I would not suggest to admitting your offence in the terms you mention, simply stick to the facts that you omitted to buy a ticket before boarding and sought to buy a “wrong” one, then offer to pay the avoided fare and the costs involved.

Most train companies do not bring run of the mill first time offenders to court, they will usually settle for around £100 they just want to put the scarers on so you don’t do it in future – which I hope will be the case!

it was chiltern railway, letter was from til

 

[Haywain]

it was chiltern railway, letter was from til

Experience of other posters on this forum suggests that TIL do not usually agree to settle at the first attempt, but often/usually do if you persist by writing a second time (or third, if it comes to it). They seem to want to make people work that little bit harder for their settlement.

 

[JXVB]

Experience of other posters on this forum suggests that TIL do not usually agree to settle at the first attempt, but often/usually do if you persist by writing a second time (or third, if it comes to it). They seem to want to make people work that little bit harder for their settlement.

Just got an email from them today saying they're handing it over to the relevant department, will update you all when I find out.

 

[JXVB]

I've had no reply yet, its been a week, but only 4 working days. their email said it may take up to 28days for a response but I am worried as this obviously goes past the letter saying if they don't hear within 21 days further action will be taken. is it advisable to send an email asking about my case or if I should maybe just send in the physical letter?

 

[skyhigh]

I've had no reply yet, its been a week, but only 4 working days. their email said it may take up to 28days for a response but I am worried as this obviously goes past the letter saying if they don't hear within 21 days further action will be taken. is it advisable to send an email asking about my case or if I should maybe just send in the physical letter?

If the letter you got from them said you could respond by email, I'd say what you've done is fine. If it asked you to respond by post, I would suggest it's best to send a physical letter.

 

[Nipa]

I've had no reply yet, its been a week, but only 4 working days. their email said it may take up to 28days for a response but I am worried as this obviously goes past the letter saying if they don't hear within 21 days further action will be taken. is it advisable to send an email asking about my case or if I should maybe just send in the physical letter?

They should hopefully reply by next week. I’m in the exact same situation as you, I recently sent off my letter of apology 10 days ago. I called up TIL office earlier today and they told me to just sit tight pretty much. Such a nerve racking situation, praying they just slap us with fines.

 

[raspberryberet]

I’m just about to send mine off @Nipa. Keep us posted on what happens with you - alternatively you can DM me if you want to chat! I’m worried sick.

 

[Nipa]

I’m just about to send mine off @Nipa. Keep us posted on what happens with you - alternatively you can DM me if you want to chat! I’m worried sick.

Yes I would love to chat, please DM me!

 

[JXVB]

They should hopefully reply by next week. I’m in the exact same situation as you, I recently sent off my letter of apology 10 days ago. I called up TIL office earlier today and they told me to just sit tight pretty much. Such a nerve racking situation, praying they just slap us with fines.

i got a confirmation email and I sent it last week so I guess I should just wait

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Aug 2021 ==

If the letter you got from them said you could respond by email, I'd say what you've done is fine. If it asked you to respond by post, I would suggest it's best to send a physical letter.

yeah it said email is accepted and I got a reply from them straight away saying it was being handed over, so I'm just going to wait until I next hear something

 

[AntoniC]

Yes I would love to chat, please DM me!

Once you have made 5 posts you can DM people

 

[Nipa]

Once you have made 5 posts you can DM people

Oh I didn’t know this thanks

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Aug 2021 ==

It really doesn’t make sense for them to take you to court though. Court really isn’t in the interest of either parties.

Like it’s actually so long even if you are 100% guilty. They need to actually prove you’re guilty which involves gathering CCTV footage, checking whether ticket machines were working at that time, then finding a court date etc etc which is just so much hassle, time waste and money for them. And for what? Just so they can slap you with an even bigger fine potentially? Of which they won’t even get to keep most of because of lawyer fees, court fees etc. Especially with covid taking a hit on their profits. The most pragmatic and logical solution would be for them to just settle this out of court. That’s just my opinion though

 

[WesternLancer]

Oh I didn’t know this thanks

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Aug 2021 ==

It really doesn’t make sense for them to take you to court though. Court really isn’t in the interest of either parties.

Like it’s actually so long even if you are 100% guilty. They need to actually prove you’re guilty which involves gathering CCTV footage, checking whether ticket machines were working at that time, then finding a court date etc etc which is just so much hassle, time waste and money for them. And for what? Just so they can slap you with an even bigger fine potentially? Of which they won’t even get to keep most of because of lawyer fees, court fees etc. Especially with covid taking a hit on their profits. The most pragmatic and logical solution would be for them to just settle this out of court. That’s just my opinion though

That's not quite how it works, as I doubt they have to present a court with the full suite of surveillance based evidence you suggest...

But - they do have a fairly strong incentive to reach a settlement out of court, and that is because the railway then keeps all of the money you pay in that settlement, whereas fines to courts go into the 'government pot' apart from the victim surcharge type amount, plus a sum for the fare evaded, as I understand it.

But there are cases where they will feel it is necessary to go for a more punitive approach with people who have evaded fares (probably persistent evaders, those who have then sought to avoid the process after having been stopped etc etc).

Evidence from these forums is that if you engage with the railway now and co-operate within processes, apologise etc, there is a very strong chance that things would not end up in court.

 

[Haywain]

Like it’s actually so long even if you are 100% guilty. They need to actually prove you’re guilty which involves gathering CCTV footage, checking whether ticket machines were working at that time, then finding a court date etc etc which is just so much hassle, time waste and money for them.

You’re new to this, aren’t you? Most cases will secure a conviction quite easily without all that.

Just so they can slap you with an even bigger fine potentially? Of which they won’t even get to keep most of because of lawyer fees, court fees etc.

All that is called costs, and that comes on top of the fine.