Crossrail - Construction updates and progress towards opening (now expected 24 May 2022)

[Class 170101]

That’s not a good place to store on track plant - for security and maintenance purposes. They are kept at Romford - by the maintenance depot - for a reason.

But doesn't solve your access problem of everyone trying to get on to the track at once through the limited number of access points and again at the end of the possessions trying to leave..

 

[Dstock7080]

12tph trial running still undertaking
Trial Operations by year-end
Whitechapel will be handed over to LU on Monday 23 August, the temporary entrance/exit on Court Street will close tonight and the Whitechapel Road building will reopen on Monday with step-free access to LU and LO platforms

 

[59CosG95]

As mentioned above, Whitechapel is now officially handed over to LU.

 

[ijmad]

Yeah, IanVisits has been up there and taken some photos already, it looks fantastic I have to say. Gone from a dingy crossing of lines to a world class interchange and I'm sure the step-free access will be of huge benefits to hospital patients among others.

Also video from the Crossrail platforms, looks good but suggests some tweaking of the door alignment is needed!

 

[Dstock7080]

 

[ijmad]

I am a bit surprised Whitechapel only has 3 escalators down to the Elizabeth Line, which means a maximum of 2 in any direction. It seems like it might be quite a busy interchange for the Overground and District Lines. Seems like a lot of passengers might switch from interchanging at Canary Wharf for the Jubilee to interchanging here.

Appreciate it's a cramped site though. Perhaps that's the best they could possibly do. Do wonder how many 'additional escalator' projects we might see at some of the Core stations in future, they all seem a bit underspecified in my amateur opinion, if you consider that Victoria now has nine escalators for the Victoria Line alone now, and Crossrail could carry more passengers. Even stations like Tottenham Court Road only have 6 escalators if I recall correctly?

 

[davews]

Diamond Geezer https://diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/ also has some photos of Whitechapel today.

 

[Aictos]

The disadvantage with the turnback siding is that it is clear of the platforms at Chadwell Heath so the train has to be cleared out before it can enter the centre siding there and this takes time ensuring passengers are off the train, as where as if Ilford could have been kept this would mean it would not need to be checked for passengers before returning in service to London. If they have fallen asleep tough luck.

Just to point out and I'm sure @ChiefPlanner will be along shortly but I don't recall any issues at St Alban's which last time I checked had a turnback siding between the Up and Down Slows to enable trains to terminate in Platform 2 and head back to London from Platform 1 using said turnback siding.

The trains there have to be cleared out of all passengers and this usually only takes a few minutes if that so I question your post stating that such a operation is a performance risk.

 

[kevin_roche]

Just to point out and I'm sure @ChiefPlanner will be along shortly but I don't recall any issues at St Alban's which last time I checked had a turnback siding between the Up and Down Slows to enable trains to terminate in Platform 2 and head back to London from Platform 1 using said turnback siding.

The trains there have to be cleared out of all passengers and this usually only takes a few minutes if that so I question your post stating that such a operation is a performance risk.

It apparently takes 7 minutes for a driver to walk from one end of a 345 to the other when changing direction. At 12tph it has only 5 minutes to get out of the way before the next train arrives, and I think in peak periods there will be 15tph at that point so that's only 4 minutes. It will likely take 2 people to check the train for remaining passengers.

 

[Domh245]

It apparently takes 7 minutes for a driver to walk from one end of a 345 to the other when changing direction. At 12tph it has only 5 minutes to get out of the way before the next train arrives, and I think in peak periods there will be 15tph at that point so that's only 4 minutes. It will likely take 2 people to check the train for remaining passengers.

7 minutes seems excessive, assuming you're timing it from starting to shutdown the cab to opening the other cab up again. Walking time from one end of the train to the other should only account for ~2:20 at standard walking speed of 1.4m/s, so round it up to 3:00 'seat to seat' including opening & closing the doors. That still leaves 4 minutes to shutdown and reopen the cabs, which still seems high to me

 

[306024]

7 minutes seems excessive, assuming you're timing it from starting to shutdown the cab to opening the other cab up again. Walking time from one end of the train to the other should only account for ~2:20 at standard walking speed of 1.4m/s, so round it up to 3:00 'seat to seat' including opening & closing the doors. That still leaves 4 minutes to shutdown and reopen the cabs, which still seems high to me

7 minutes to change ends is from wheels stopping to wheels starting, so is not ‘excessive’. There is a little bit of spare time but you do not plan everything to the last second.

 

[InOban]

I thought that the planned procedure was
1. Train arrives at Paddington, doors open, passengers leave. Driver leaves train (remember the driver isn't necessary, the trains can be operated remotely )
2 A cleaning team join the train and work along it. Maybe there could also be a dispatch or similar member of staff, but I really can't see the necessity. They can alert any comatose or confused passengers that the train has terminated, while train is moved by control into one of the sidings and back into the departure platform.
3. The cleaning team leave the train along with any 'strays'. Meanwhile the driver has strolled 240m to the new front and the train is ready to depart.

Remember that ultimately there will be 24 tph, ie every 2.5 minutes. No time to clear the train before it proceeds to a reversing bay.

Am I wrong?

 

[306024]

Am I wrong?

The driver remains with the train to and from Westbourne Park, but doesn't have to drive it.

 

[Horizon22]

The Pre-Covid service level was the maximum that Paddington High Level could cope with so reverting to that is the best that will happen. Service level expansion on the western side happens in the timetable change after through running e.g. probably December 2022 unless any goes very wrong

I’ve heard from someone reasonably involved it could be as early as March to see through services to Abbey Wood - However there is of course the lack of a timetable to cover this so I was somewhat dubious!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Aug 2021 ==

The driver remains with the train to and from Westbourne Park, but doesn't have to drive it.

They are changing ends during the transition I believe.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Aug 2021 ==

7 minutes seems excessive, assuming you're timing it from starting to shutdown the cab to opening the other cab up again. Walking time from one end of the train to the other should only account for ~2:20 at standard walking speed of 1.4m/s, so round it up to 3:00 'seat to seat' including opening & closing the doors. That still leaves 4 minutes to shutdown and reopen the cabs, which still seems high to me

They’re doing this at Paddington regularly during the day which works.Heathrow / Hayes terminators have 7 minutes which is about the minimum for that length of train. Walking time is normally a Union matter.

 

[iphone76]

A 9 car whilst being longer, also takes longer to set-up than a 7 car. As mentioned, 7 minutes is given to change ends, however, it is tight, especially if you have to replenish water / use the facilities, etc.

I haven't heard anything recently regarding the use of auto-reverse in the sidings. There was rumour it wouldn't be used, but who knows. I personally wouldn't want to walk through a train which hasn't been "swept" by station staff.

 

[Aictos]

It apparently takes 7 minutes for a driver to walk from one end of a 345 to the other when changing direction. At 12tph it has only 5 minutes to get out of the way before the next train arrives, and I think in peak periods there will be 15tph at that point so that's only 4 minutes. It will likely take 2 people to check the train for remaining passengers.

All that will happen is the platform staff will ask for the doors to be closed then they will just walk though the train ensuring nobody is left on, it doesn't take 7 minutes to walk though a 8 coach train which is only one coach less then the trains that will be used on the Elizabeth line.

The only time it takes longer is when you have passengers who don't listen to multiple announcements and who stay on the train who then delay the train as they have to be let out the train using a local door.

 

[hwl]

I’ve heard from someone reasonably involved it could be as early as March to see through services to Abbey Wood - However there is of course the lack of a timetable to cover this so I was somewhat dubious!

Though services will initially be a complete bodge to run what they can with existing surface timetables. Hence low frequency all round.

Feb-March would be Paddington Low Level to Abbey Wood with no through running.

 

[Horizon22]

Though services will initially be a complete bodge to run what they can with existing surface timetables. Hence low frequency all round.

Feb-March would be Paddington Low Level to Abbey Wood with no through running.

That’s what I gathered too although he fairly confidently stated December for the latter. As you say it would be bodge which could get a bit cosy - the pent up demand is there.

 

[ijmad]

Basically the service really needs Old Oak Common and its four platforms to be able to reverse 12-16tph without small issues causing delays through the core.

 

[59CosG95]

Basically the service really needs Old Oak Common and its four platforms to be able to reverse 12-16tph without small issues causing delays through the core.

Six platforms.

 

[zwk500]

Six platforms.

I thought OOC was 8 platforms on the GWML, 4 for the mains and 4 for the reliefs?

 

[Snow1964]

7 minutes to change ends is from wheels stopping to wheels starting, so is not ‘excessive’. There is a little bit of spare time but you do not plan everything to the last second.

How things change, I remember when 12 car trains used to enter Eastbourne and reverse, and driver would be get 3 minutes to change ends and be off again.

 

[hwl]

I thought OOC was 8 platforms on the GWML, 4 for the mains and 4 for the reliefs?

Correct... Assuming reversing 12-16 isn't referring to HS2 before Euston opens!

 

[AM9]

How things change, I remember when 12 car trains used to enter Eastbourne and reverse, and driver would be get 3 minutes to change ends and be off again.

How safety has improved, no slam doors, no droplights and far fewer passengers killed or seriously injured on the whole railway per decade that used to be the norm per year. I know which I prefer.

 

[Ianno87]

How safety has improved, no slam doors, no droplights and far fewer passengers killed or seriously injured on the whole railway per decade that used to be the norm per year. I know which I prefer.

The forum needs a "Good old days seen through rose tinted glasses" klaxon.

 

[59CosG95]

I thought OOC was 8 platforms on the GWML, 4 for the mains and 4 for the reliefs?

Ohhhh - I thought you meant the HS2 platforms!

 

[Horizon22]

How things change, I remember when 12 car trains used to enter Eastbourne and reverse, and driver would be get 3 minutes to change ends and be off again.

Presumably if there was a crew change and someone waiting at the far end that would be perfectly achievable. Otherwise yes, rather extereme!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Aug 2021 ==

Basically the service really needs Old Oak Common and its four platforms to be able to reverse 12-16tph without small issues causing delays through the core.

Can you turn around on the East and West lines at Westbourne Park as well?

 

[306024]

Can you turn around on the East and West lines at Westbourne Park as well?

Yes that’s possible too.

 

[Horizon22]

Yes that’s possible too.

So I guess that's 5 "platforms" which might be more feasible if there's zero through-service.

Anyway to get this to work, the through services are going to be required as otherwise the turnbacks are going to be a major capacity restraint. You'd be essentially making Westbourne Park a 'terminus' with 5 'platforms' otherwise.

 

[306024]

So I guess that's 5 "platforms" which might be more feasible if there's zero through-service.

That’s correct. It’s mathematically possible to reverse 24tph in that way but it is a performance risk.