Chiltern rail - wrong ticket

[benedv123]

Hi there,

I've read a few of these since when the incident occurred a couple of days ago so thought I'd present my personal situation. I was travelling from Gerrards Cross to London Marylebone the other day when there was a queue at the ticket office, I was late and gate open I went down and stupidly boarded the train. I bought a ticket from the next station (I know this is wrong I feel like an idiot trust me) which was Wembley. When I arrived at Marylebone I noticed my ticket was not a scan code but one which required collection. When the inspector spotted the purchase time he smelt a rat. When he asked where I'd boarded I incorrectly said Wembley and that this was where I lived. Long story short I came to my senses when pressed by the guy as he filled in the form. He later told me to expect a letter asking for my side of events in a month's time (as I see is also common from these forums). I'm not looking for sympathy from anyone I understand I was a total fool and have never once bought from the wrong station before (have a history of ticket purchases on the same route from Gerrards Cross). I'm just looking for some advice as to what to expect in terms of whether the 1 month timescale is correct ? and how is best to respond, I won't bull**** or spin a sob story as I am genuinely apologetic I understand a short concise apology is best? Cheers.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Welcome to the forum

There's a fairly good chance that Chiltern (or possibly Transport Investigations Ltd (TIL), who I think Chiltern employ to deal with this sort of thing) will get back to you in a month - but there's no guarantee. By law, the railway have six months to decide if they want to take you to court, so in theory they could take that long to get back to you, and if for some reason they decide to go straight to court (which they are entitled to do) then that could take a few weeks longer (because the six months is the time that the railway have to tell the court, and then it might take the court a few weeks to tell you). So you can't relax after a month: you need to wait for around seven months before you're certain that nothing will come of it.

But the most likely thing to happen is that at some point Chiltern or TIL will write to you. I think you have already found the advice we generally give, but there's an example of what @Hadders usually says at https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...emr-what-will-happen-next.220098/post-5229901. I fully endorse this as a good route to take.

As to what will happen after you have written? Well, there can be no guarantee but if this is the first time that you have done this it is more likely than not that you will be offered an out of court settlement. If TIL are involved, you often have to go through a few rounds of correspondence before they agree to an out of court settlement, but that still seems to be the usual solution. If for whatever reason you cannot agree a settlement the matter will end up in court, and on the facts you have given it seems to me you will be convicted. That would result in a fine (maybe around half a week's income) plus compensation to the railway (i.e. the fare you didn't pay) plus court costs plus prosecution costs. Depending on the specific charge and what you do for a living / anything you volunteer for, you might also end up with a criminal record that you had to tell a new employer/leaders of a voluntary organisation about. But note that this does not affect all jobs, and even if the worst comes to the worst you will not be sent to prison for a single occurrence of fare dodging.

 

[Haywain]

Hi there,

I've read a few of these since when the incident occurred a couple of days ago so thought I'd present my personal situation. I was travelling from Gerrards Cross to London Marylebone the other day when there was a queue at the ticket office, I was late and gate open I went down and stupidly boarded the train. I bought a ticket from the next station (I know this is wrong I feel like an idiot trust me) which was Wembley. When I arrived at Marylebone I noticed my ticket was not a scan code but one which required collection. When the inspector spotted the purchase time he smelt a rat. When he asked where I'd boarded I incorrectly said Wembley and that this was where I lived. Long story short I came to my senses when pressed by the guy as he filled in the form. He later told me to expect a letter asking for my side of events in a month's time (as I see is also common from these forums). I'm not looking for sympathy from anyone I understand I was a total fool and have never once bought from the wrong station before (have a history of ticket purchases on the same route from Gerrards Cross). I'm just looking for some advice as to what to expect in terms of whether the 1 month timescale is correct ? and how is best to respond, I won't bull**** or spin a sob story as I am genuinely apologetic I understand a short concise apology is best? Cheers.

Welcome to the forum.

This is a clear cut case of what is known as short-faring and will cost a lot more than it saved you. It will take between a couple of weeks and a couple of months for your letter to turn up. As for what to write, @Hadders sums it up rather well:

I've put below the advice I normally give to people who request help from the forum in similar circumstances to yours.

You are likely to receive a letter from the train company (or an investigation company acting on their behalf) which will probably take a few weeks to arrive saying that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company would be well within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be around £100 plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

 

[benedv123]

Welcome to the forum.

This is a clear cut case of what is known as short-faring and will cost a lot more than it saved you. It will take between a couple of weeks and a couple of months for your letter to turn up. As for what to write, @Hadders sums it up rather well:

Appreciate the swift response. Trust me I know, I'm not looking for any sympathy but I'm more frustrated than anything as I'm someone who's never done this before. In terms of my chances of an out of court handling of this matter instead of it going further would you say I have a decent chance?

 

[Haywain]

Appreciate the swift response. Trust me I know, I'm not looking for any sympathy but I'm more frustrated than anything as I'm someone who's never done this before. In terms of my chances of an out of court handling of this matter instead of it going further would you say I have a decent chance?

Yes. If your letter comes from TIL (Transport Investigations Limited) you may have to write more than once, but in general there is an excellent chance of settling the matter out of court.

 

[benedv123]

Yes. If your letter comes from TIL (Transport Investigations Limited) you may have to write more than once, but in general there is an excellent chance of settling the matter out of court.

Perfect, I won't take it for granted of course but thank you. In terms of TIL, would it be advisable to write in a different manner to them or still the same structure as referenced above? Also, any idea what Chiltern are like to deal with? Not seen many previous threads RE them hope it's not a bad omen...

 

[Haywain]

Perfect, I won't take it for granted of course but thank you. In terms of TIL, would it be advisable to write in a different manner to them or still the same structure as referenced above? Also, any idea what Chiltern are like to deal with? Not seen many previous threads RE them hope it's not a bad omen...

Treat TIL no differently to a train company's prosecutions department, because that's effectively what they are. There have been a couple of threads relatively recently with Chiltern and they have been settled out of court.

 

[benedv123]

/Just to follow up to this, will I hear from either or TIL or Chiltern or possibly both?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

/Just to follow up to this, will I hear from either or TIL or Chiltern or possibly both?

Assuming that Chiltern employ TIL (and I think that's the case but I can't prove it either way with a quick Google) you will only hear from TIL, and it will be them you need to correspond with.

 

[benedv123]

Assuming that Chiltern employ TIL (and I think that's the case but I can't prove it either way with a quick Google) you will only hear from TIL, and it will be them you need to correspond with.

Okay thanks, it sounds like TIL are a bit harder to deal with so lucky me!... But makes more sense than dealing with both at once of course. The guy who took details said I'd respond via email to these people but having read a few other threads it sounds like I write a letter in response ? Could you give a little light please.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Okay thanks, it sounds like TIL are a bit harder to deal with so lucky me!... But makes more sense than dealing with both at once of course. The guy who took details said I'd respond via email to these people but having read a few other threads it sounds like I write a letter in response ? Could you give a little light please.

Sorry, but I'm afraid that I don't know if they require a letter or will accept an email.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

The advice I usually give to people who come here seeking advice has already been linked to above and the results of other cases on here indicate that if you follow it you have a decent chance of being offered an administrative settlement.

I believe Chiltern use Transport Investigations Limited to deal with their cases initially, they will ask you to write to them but I think you can also email a signed copy of your reply to them. The letter will tell you how to send your reply. I would not send anything to them until you get their letter.

 

[benedv123]

Haven't yet received my letter (will update when I do) and of course hope it doesn't come to this but say worst case scenario and it does end up in court. How long would it be usually until this conviction is considered 'spent' cheers.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

If the worst comes to the worst, a byelaw conviction is considered to be spent immediately (edit - maybe not - please see post #15 below). A RORA conviction clears after a year

Haven't yet received my letter (will update when I do) and of course hope it doesn't come to this but say worst case scenario and it does end up in court. How long would it be usually until this conviction is considered 'spent' cheers.

 

[pedr]

If the worst comes to the worst, a byelaw conviction is considered to be spent immediately. A RORA conviction clears after a year

Is this correct? A bylaw conviction might not (almost certainly will not) appear on any check of police records/DBS checks, but the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act sets the rehabilitation period of a conviction punished by a fine at one year.

 

[Bertie the bus]

There were a couple of threads close together a couple of years ago where people had lied about their origin station with Chiltern. One admitted lying immediately and was given the opportunity to settle out of court but the other continued the pretence that they had made a genuine mistake and they were prosecuted, so by quickly owning up and taking responsibility you probably have a pretty decent chance of avoiding court.