Alternatives to train for London

[Vespa]

As mentioned in the title.

It come to mind because Avanti have been putting up the prices for Liverpool to London post pandemic especially First Class tickets even with a railcard is still a hefty amount and Standard Premium is the same price as the old First Class, if they put it up further with no advance fares, it may well be cheaper to drive.

So it had me thinking of alternatives to London being more cost effective such a coach v Plane from Liverpool airport v car with the option of parking outside at a B&B and travel in by tube train.

Even right up to overnight coach travel, I think there was a sleeper coach advertised it appears to have been stopped which would have been a viable alternative for me.


So what do you think ?

 

[Techniquest]

I've no idea on the fares, but LNWR do their own fares that would be far cheaper than Avanti. I can't recall how to get them to show up on journey planners, on my route searching for via Northampton works. I know the fare exists, or at least used to, out of Liverpool.

That is a long journey, compared to Avanti, it has to be said. However, it is far superior to settling for a coach. I speak from much experience of lengthy coach journeys, it sounds like a breeze when the fares are cheap, but it's so mind-numbingly boring. Especially so on an overnight journey, I cannot stress enough how much you should avoid the coach journey if you can.

I'm fairly sure flying to London from Liverpool is not really an option, and as someone who's quite anti-domestic flying I wouldn't recommend it anyway. With all the time to allow for security and getting to/from the airports anyway, it's not a viable option for such a short journey.

So it's basically down to getting a LNWR Only Advance/walk-up fare or driving. Yes I know 350s aren't entirely exciting, and there's the risk of a /2 turning up, but compared to the risk of a traffic jam on the M1, I know full well which option I'd choose...

 

[Vespa]

Plane route is only a consideration for comparison.

Coaches same, I did overnight coaches when I was much younger as It was cheaper than train which took 4h30m to get to London then, I wouldn't consider it unless it had a sleeping berth.

At the moment the only other realistic competitor for the Liverpool-London route is the London North Western Railway, Richard Branson was going to launch Virgin Rail 2.0 using open access agreements, nothing came off that so far.

I've heard great things about Grand Central Railway, I saw them in Newcastle they looked good, if they run from Liverpool I would consider them.
I've heard about Grand Union Railway company being proposed.

So this leaves LNER as an alternative, I will look them up and see how I can make a trip of it.

Theres also the car as the other viable other option, it would come down to would it be cheaper by car than by train at some point, ironically that's what got British Rail in trouble in the 60s and 70s.

 

[yorksrob]

I've caught LNWR between Crewe and London a few times. I've found it very reasonably priced with nice trains.

Very handy if the InterCity TOCS aren't stepping up to the plate.

 

[Techniquest]

Grand Central, yes they are good. I haven't used them since my All Line Rover in 2012, my last journey on their Sunderland services was I believe in 2011 on my 7 day ALR. So I don't know what they're like now, but they used to be good. A shame it's unlikely they'll ever have their West Coast operation going.

I still say your only sensible option is LNWR, none of the others make sense. Like yourself, when I was younger I used to take the coach quite a lot. Ah the days of Olympians on Megabus and £1 fares, and all those overnight journeys, the memories! These days I steer well clear of Megabus, multiple reasons but one of them being an extra charge to reserve seats. That put me off somewhat when I last looked to use them. It appeared to be a compulsory thing too, no thanks, Megabus isn't exactly fun anyway!

Oh and if you were talking about Megabus Gold with those sleeper coach journeys, you didn't miss anything there. I did it once, and once only, from London to Glasgow. No thanks, lousy experience and I was much happier with my sleeper journey from Dunblane the next night! Crazy really, as the seated sleeper should not have been a superior experience to a lie-flat bed on a modern coach!

 

[Vespa]

It's looking like that mate just priced up LNWR First Class, got £31 with railcard discount return with one change and 3h45m journey but no food or first class lounge.

I will look at that next time I go to London assuming Avanti doesn't reintroduce Advance tickets or Trainsplit.

 

[mmh]

The real alternative here is Avanti standard class. It's only a 2 hrs 20 mins-ish journey. LNWR first class is only an alternative if you wish to avoid travelling standard for the sake of it, as it's less comfortable than both LNWR standard itself and Avanti standard.

 

[Kite159]

I've no idea on the fares, but LNWR do their own fares that would be far cheaper than Avanti. I can't recall how to get them to show up on journey planners, on my route searching for via Northampton works. I know the fare exists, or at least used to, out of Liverpool.

That is a long journey, compared to Avanti, it has to be said. However, it is far superior to settling for a coach. I speak from much experience of lengthy coach journeys, it sounds like a breeze when the fares are cheap, but it's so mind-numbingly boring. Especially so on an overnight journey, I cannot stress enough how much you should avoid the coach journey if you can.

I'm fairly sure flying to London from Liverpool is not really an option, and as someone who's quite anti-domestic flying I wouldn't recommend it anyway. With all the time to allow for security and getting to/from the airports anyway, it's not a viable option for such a short journey.

So it's basically down to getting a LNWR Only Advance/walk-up fare or driving. Yes I know 350s aren't entirely exciting, and there's the risk of a /2 turning up, but compared to the risk of a traffic jam on the M1, I know full well which option I'd choose...

The big issue with Liverpool - London in LNwR is that southbound I believe it gives a 40-odd minute wait before the next London Euston via Trent Valley service (which is a lot quicker than changing at Birmingham for a London 350). Heading northbound I believe the connection is a very unofficial +4 at Crewe so journey planners will force an hour wait at Crewe. Although as long as the Crewe train departs Stafford first the connection in theory is possible as normally it's the same island platform.

Although I could think of worse places to spend 40 minutes, and at least you will be able to get a seat on the Crewe - London train for the long journey south.

------------

In my eyes First Class on a 350 is worse than standard class in the 1s/3 & 4s, I just don't like the seats. It's only worth the upgrade if you get unlucky enough to get a pair of grumsome twosomes

 

[Ianno87]

It's looking like that mate just priced up LNWR First Class, got £31 with railcard discount return with one change and 3h45m journey but no food or first class lounge.

.....just bring your own food?

 

[Butts]

As mentioned in the title.

It come to mind because Avanti have been putting up the prices for Liverpool to London post pandemic especially First Class tickets even with a railcard is still a hefty amount and Standard Premium is the same price as the old First Class, if they put it up further with no advance fares, it may well be cheaper to drive.

So it had me thinking of alternatives to London being more cost effective such a coach v Plane from Liverpool airport v car with the option of parking outside at a B&B and travel in by tube train.

Even right up to overnight coach travel, I think there was a sleeper coach advertised it appears to have been stopped which would have been a viable alternative for me.


So what do you think ?

Can you Fly from Liverpool to London ?

Who operates that ?

 

[Vespa]

.....just bring your own food?

Indeed and I may well replicate my Pullman dining experience complete with tablecloths, miniature bottles of wine with glass, china plates, knives and fork and the actual meal itself to give LNWR a very subtle hint to up their game

 

[mmh]

Indeed and I may well replicate my Pullman dining experience complete with tablecloths, miniature bottles of wine with glass, china plates, knives and fork and the actual meal itself to give LNWR a very subtle hint to up their game

First class on LNWR only exists because of home counties to London commuters. If the trains weren't serving that part of the route, they wouldn't have first class. There's no demand for any sort of first class on board service, so it'll never have one.

 

[Vespa]

Can you Fly from Liverpool to London ?

Who operates that ?

Not sure to be honest, I do remember flying from Heathrow to Manchester on Briyish Airways on the last leg of my round the world ticket in 2008, it took 30 minutes.

 

[cactustwirly]

Not sure to be honest, I do remember flying from Heathrow to Manchester on Briyish Airways on the last leg of my round the world ticket in 2008, it took 30 minutes.

BA operate daily return flights from Manchester and Leeds to Heathrow. Mainly for passengers connecting at LHR for long haul destinations

 

[221129]

BA operate daily return flights from Manchester and Leeds to Heathrow. Mainly for passengers connecting at LHR for long haul destinations

BA haven't flown to Leeds Bradford to London for a while now.

 

[Techniquest]

That is a bargain fare, no question of it! You've reminded me I need to book some Advances myself on WMR+LNWR!

 

[317 forever]

I've no idea on the fares, but LNWR do their own fares that would be far cheaper than Avanti. I can't recall how to get them to show up on journey planners, on my route searching for via Northampton works. I know the fare exists, or at least used to, out of Liverpool.

That is a long journey, compared to Avanti, it has to be said. However, it is far superior to settling for a coach. I speak from much experience of lengthy coach journeys, it sounds like a breeze when the fares are cheap, but it's so mind-numbingly boring. Especially so on an overnight journey, I cannot stress enough how much you should avoid the coach journey if you can.

I'm fairly sure flying to London from Liverpool is not really an option, and as someone who's quite anti-domestic flying I wouldn't recommend it anyway. With all the time to allow for security and getting to/from the airports anyway, it's not a viable option for such a short journey.

So it's basically down to getting a LNWR Only Advance/walk-up fare or driving. Yes I know 350s aren't entirely exciting, and there's the risk of a /2 turning up, but compared to the risk of a traffic jam on the M1, I know full well which option I'd choose...

If you go to Trains, tickets & service information | London Northwestern Railway there will be an "our trains only" option. Looking up an example of travelling down lunchtime on Monday September 6th and back the following lunchtime, I have seen some £15.50 Advance Singles and a Super Off-peak Return for £36.60 available on some such connections.

 

[Techniquest]

If you go to Trains, tickets & service information | London Northwestern Railway there will be an "our trains only" option. Looking up an example of travelling down lunchtime on Monday September 6th and back the following lunchtime, I have seen some £15.50 Advance Singles and a Super Off-peak Return for £36.60 available on some such connections.

Thanks That's helpful for me and my planning too, whenever I try to book WMR+LNWR fares at the moment (I normally find them through NRES) I'm getting the frustrating 5 minute connection in Northampton and a lengthy wait in Birmingham. Which would be fine, the wait in Birmingham that is, but with a bike there's no way I'll manage the Northampton 5 minute connection time! So I'll have a fiddle and see what I can do