USA level crossing v lorries

[Paul Jones 88]

On YouTube, there are many videos of lorries in the USA coming to grief on level crossings, has the USA a problem with their level crossings?
There aren't any videos of similar incidents in the UK.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Apparently there are a lot of problems, Brightline in Florida was mentioned here recently. There are lots of crossings, residents did not like the loud horns of the trains. The horns were made quieter or used less, with fatal consequences.

 

[43096]

Apparently there are a lot of problems, Brightline in Florida was mentioned here recently. There are lots of crossings, residents did not like the loud horns of the trains. The horns were made quieter or used less, with fatal consequences.

Also there are short times between barriers coming down and trains reaching the crossing, plus with often lengthy freight trains there is a very big temptation to try to beat the train rather than wait.

And that’s before you factor in general idiocy.

 

[67thave]

On YouTube, there are many videos of lorries in the USA coming to grief on level crossings, has the USA a problem with their level crossings?
There aren't any videos of similar incidents in the UK.

Part of this has to do with simply the proportion of level crossings here in the United States, as grade separation is uncommon outside of urban areas and away from the interstates.

 

[NSEFAN]

The crossings in the USA are a bit janky when compared to the ones used in the UK. You can find videos where crossings fail to activate as the train approaches, only triggering after the train has gone past!

Incidentally, there was a similar occurrence in Norfolk, where a new DMU failed to properly activate the track circuits, this caused the crossing to activate and deactivate repeatedly, the barriers raising just before the train got to the crossing, and narrowly missing a car! My understanding is that the equipment used there was the same as USA automatic crossings, but perhaps someone else could correct me!

In this country, our loading gauge means that trains are quite small, so we absolutely must have crossings that work properly. In the USA, the trains are big enough that they will win, in the event of a collision with even a big truck.

 

[ac6000cw]

On YouTube, there are many videos of lorries in the USA coming to grief on level crossings, has the USA a problem with their level crossings?

As others have said, there are a lot of level crossings in the US, and they are almost always, at best, automatic half-barrier crossings or have lesser protection - right down to simple 'crossbuck' signs on quiet lines/roads i.e. just look out for trains before you cross.

One major issue is the length of typical US freight trains means that a crossing might be closed for 5-10 minutes if, for example, a train is climbing a steep gradient at 10 mph. This means some drivers will risk weaving around the barriers rather than be delayed (they obviously don't value their and others lives much). Even as a occasional visitor to the US, I've seen this happen (I once watched - from a safe distance - two guys in pickup trucks weave through barriers in front of a hard-accelerating freight train, hoping I wasn't going to be a witness to serious collision...)

There aren't any videos of similar incidents in the UK.

See this thread for what could easily have become a collision if it had happened at an automatic crossing - https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/another-lorry-through-the-barriers-at-manningtree.207095/

 

[Taunton]

One major issue is the length of typical US freight trains means that a crossing might be closed for 5-10 minutes if, for example, a train is climbing a steep gradient at 10 mph.

Not just moving trains. US railroads think nothing of stopping across a crossing for an hour or so, to meet oncoming trains or for a crew change. They are meant to go and break the train apart at crossings and pull a bit clear. These rules date from the times when trains had a crew of 5, including a couple of brakemen, to do this. Nowadays with a crew of 2 they don't bother.

Some small towns with a rail line through the middle need two fire stations, one on each side. San Fernando in California was one.

 

[ac6000cw]

Incidentally, there was a similar occurrence in Norfolk, where a new DMU failed to properly activate the track circuits, this caused the crossing to activate and deactivate repeatedly, the barriers raising just before the train got to the crossing, and narrowly missing a car! My understanding is that the equipment used there was the same as USA automatic crossings, but perhaps someone else could correct me!

The RAIB report of the incident is here - https://assets.publishing.service.g...8f54d60878a88/R152020_201214_Norwich_Road.pdf

Yes, the crossing uses 'predictor' equipment, which is commonly used in North America (and in many other countries). There was a combination of factors that caused the incident, including railhead contamination, new cl.755 trains with un-worn wheels and the crossing loss-of-train detection protection timeout being set to quite a short time (16 seconds, changed to 99 seconds after the incident).

 

[Paul Jones 88]

Thanks for the interesting responses, I found it surprising that lorry drivers are prepared to take risks with trains, I've always regarded them as professional drivers who know what they are doing.

 

[Taunton]

Thanks for the interesting responses, I found it surprising that lorry drivers are prepared to take risks with trains, I've always regarded them as professional drivers who know what they are doing.

The world has changed. The old pattern of the truck driver in long term employment has to a considerable extent, in both UK and USA, been replaced by it becoming a "first immigrant" job, with drivers engaged through an agency by the day. It's cheaper.. This can particularly apply to local work, where drivers themselves are paid by the load/trip. The RAIB has in a number of crossing accident reports arouns the country picked up on the particular terms the involved truck/van driver was engaged on.

 

[Giugiaro]

I've saw on Youtube a video that shows a married couple that took lorry driving as their core business.
Because they can take turns on the wheel, the vehicle never stops, so they can make more deliveries more frequently as there is less turnaround (for resting, basic maintenance, load/unloading, etc.).

It's the old, but ever more important, "time is money" aphorism that has shaped many sectors of our society. Particularly transportation.
And this leads to particularly aggressive tactics that sometimes brings highly professional workers to take serious risks. Most times they pay off. Others...

Thus one of the reasons why so many Penske vehicles become lighter when meeting up with the 11'8"(+8") bridge.

 

[nlogax]

Thus one of the reasons why so many Penske vehicles become lighter when meeting up with the 11'8"(+8") bridge.

The fact that even with the recent height increases so many drivers still come a cropper under this bridge or at least the crash beam is a never ending source of surprise to me.

 

[S&CLER]

I recall that Greyhound and other buses were obliged to stop at all grade crossings and then proceed if clear. In many cases grade crossings are not gated, only protected by "wig-wag" lights. Also, the usual US term is "grade crossing", while a "level crossing" in American railroad parlance is what we would call a flat crossing (like Newark). There are plenty of them too.

 

[furnessvale]

Some years ago, I recall seeing stats that said there were 10,000 vehicle/train LX incidents a year in the US. That was bad enough, but 1000 of them involved a vehicle running into the side of a train that was there first. This has resulted in hi-viz stripes being applied to the sides of freight cars. I have no idea if this has reduced accidents.

 

[Bob figgis]

Aren’t a lot of the issues with trains verses lorries in the US due to the trailer grounding across the tracks. A lot of the crossings seem to be up fairly steep climbs in the road, a lorry tries to cross the tracks gets grounded and the inevitable happens a train comes. The first clip in this video shows what im trying to describe.

 

[ac6000cw]

I recall that Greyhound and other buses were obliged to stop at all grade crossings and then proceed if clear. In many cases grade crossings are not gated, only protected by "wig-wag" lights. Also, the usual US term is "grade crossing", while a "level crossing" in American railroad parlance is what we would call a flat crossing (like Newark). There are plenty of them too.

AFAIK, the 'stop at all grade crossings, open the doors and look & listen for trains' rule mainly applies to school buses. At unprotected crossings (no lights/barriers) all buses and vehicles carrying hazardous materials are required to do the same. Some crossings are exempt and have signs to that effect.

Aren’t a lot of the issues with trains verses lorries in the US due to the trailer grounding across the tracks. A lot of the crossings seem to be up fairly steep climbs in the road, a lorry tries to cross the tracks gets grounded and the inevitable happens a train comes. The first clip in this video shows what im trying to describe.

I don't think (based on personal experience) that in general the crossings are much worse than in the UK - but I have come across one or two 'mountainous' ones on minor roads.

I suspect the two crossings in the UK village I live in might be sufficiently 'humped' to ground a truck trailer like the one in the video (which has a long, low 'well' section). I've also been across some UK crossings with 'Risk of Grounding' signs and scrape marks on the road surface to prove it...

Some years ago, I recall seeing stats that said there were 10,000 vehicle/train LX incidents a year in the US. That was bad enough, but 1000 of them involved a vehicle running into the side of a train that was there first. This has resulted in hi-viz stripes being applied to the sides of freight cars. I have no idea if this has reduced accidents.

I suspect it's probably helped a bit, as have the 'grade crossing safety education' programmes US railroads have been running for many years.

There was collision in my area a while ago where a car/small van drove past a line of vehicles correctly stopped at an AHB crossing and into the side of a passenger train...

 

[Ediswan]

Aren’t a lot of the issues with trains verses lorries in the US due to the trailer grounding across the tracks. A lot of the crossings seem to be up fairly steep climbs in the road, a lorry tries to cross the tracks gets grounded and the inevitable happens a train comes. The first clip in this video shows what im trying to describe.

And the third shows why emergency services should comply with lights at crossings.

 

[marjoriebates]

When I was driving through America, I saw a lot of amazing things. In the United States, there are sometimes places where there is no road sign indicating that there is a level-crossing ahead. Do you have any idea how dangerous that is? For example, I’ve been to Raleigh, North Carolina. There’s bad city planning, there’s no trains. U can read about it here https://costoflivingreports.com/united-states/raleigh-nc/ I’ve heard a lot of sad stories at crossings. I’ve watched YouTube videos that make me want to cancel the train. Really , I understand that’s impossible. Authorities should pay attention to security. I believe that before every level-crossing there should be a barrier and a warning sign. Truck drivers should follow the rules, too. I’ve seen them neglect safety many times and drive over the fence. Stupid games…

 

[ac6000cw]

I’ve been to Raleigh, North Carolina. There’s bad city planning, there’s no trains.

It does have passenger trains (several per day each way to/from Charlotte, plus other Amtrak longer distance trains), as well as freight trains.

In the United States, there are sometimes places where there is no road sign indicating that there is a level-crossing ahead.

Do you mean at a road crossing of a significant, active, rail line? So not even a 'cross-bucks' sign at the crossing itself?

(I've driven thousands of miles around the US myself)