Tutbury and Hatton to St Leonards Warrior Square

[LowLevel]

I came across something interesting the other day and I'm afraid I can't be bothered to delve into the routeing guide to work out the answer myself.

I sold a passenger a ticket from Tutbury and Hatton to St Leonards Warrior Square, a single.

There are two off peak single options - a "route any permitted" with a via London symbol for £74.40 priced by Avanti, and a "route Derby" with a via London symbol for £107.40 priced by EMR.

It was a Saturday so time restrictions weren't relevant.

I was wondering why there is an any permitted ticket when the most obvious/shortest route would at first glance seem to be via Derby, yet that has a more expensive specific routeing ticket available? NRE seems to suggest that the Any Permitted ticket isn't actually valid via Derby despite this seeming to me to be the most logical route.

As it happens I figured no guard in their right mind would ever question a Tutbury to St Leonards ticket route any permitted with a London transfer being used between Derby and St Pancras but I have to admit the logic here has foxed me.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

For those who haven't been to Tutbury and Hatton, it's on the Stoke-on-Trent to Derby line, quite near to Uttoexter.

Fare setter for the route "Any Permitted" Off Peak Single ticket between Tutbury and Hatton -> St. Leonard's Warrior Sq is Avanti, so presumably that's primarily intended for travel via Stoke-on-Trent into/via London Euston.

Fare setter for the route "via Derby" Super Off Peak Single ticket is East Midlands Railway, so I'm guessing that's primarily (but not necessarily exclusively) intended for travel into/via London St. Pancras.

Be interesting to know what other routeings the Forum experts consider are permissible on these two tickets, both into an appropriate London terminal, and then down to St. Leonard's, having crossed central London.

 

[Watershed]

I came across something interesting the other day and I'm afraid I can't be bothered to delve into the routeing guide to work out the answer myself.

I sold a passenger a ticket from Tutbury and Hatton to St Leonards Warrior Square, a single.

There are two off peak single options - a "route any permitted" with a via London symbol for £74.40 priced by Avanti, and a "route Derby" with a via London symbol for £107.40 priced by EMR.

It was a Saturday so time restrictions weren't relevant.

I was wondering why there is an any permitted ticket when the most obvious/shortest route would at first glance seem to be via Derby, yet that has a more expensive specific routeing ticket available? NRE seems to suggest that the Any Permitted ticket isn't actually valid via Derby despite this seeming to me to be the most logical route.

As it happens I figured no guard in their right mind would ever question a Tutbury to St Leonards ticket route any permitted with a London transfer being used between Derby and St Pancras but I have to admit the logic here has foxed me.

As far as I can tell, the Any Permitted is valid via Derby, as Derby passes the fares check. NRE and all the booking engines I've checked are happy to offer it that way.

The reason for the disparity is that Avanti recently reduced all of their Off-Peak Single tickets to approx. 70% of the return. Meaning that - as here - where EMR have set fares based on Avanti's single previously being £1 less than the return, this is now undercut.

I wouldn't be surprised if the route of the Any Permitted got changed soon.

 

[LowLevel]

As far as I can tell, the Any Permitted is valid via Derby, as Derby passes the fares check. NRE and all the booking engines I've checked are happy to offer it that way.

The reason for the disparity is that Avanti recently reduced all of their Off-Peak Single tickets to approx. 70% of the return. Meaning that - as here - where EMR have set fares based on Avanti's single previously being £1 less than the return, this is now undercut.

I wouldn't be surprised if the route of the Any Permitted got changed soon, with the wet paper bags at Transport Focus claiming that this is how it was always "intended" to be used and so they have no objection.

I see it will sell the any permitted via Derby - I befuddled myself by setting it up for travel at an invalid time when I used the journey planner to have a look just now.

Interesting. Not very customer friendly at all as seeing a separate ticket "via Derby" could cause you to assume that you had to purchase a ticket at that price to travel that way, if you were simply looking at the headline.

The issue with Avanti altering their price does make sense as to how the fares have ended up how they are.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

So another example of where a more expensive ticket effectively means reduced route availability and no significant advantage as regards when you can travel?

Are all booking engines allowing travel via Derby on the significantly cheaper route "Any Permitted" SVS ticket?

 

[Haywain]

The original intentions appear clear when one looks at the Anytime fares for the same journey.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The original intentions appear clear when one looks at the Anytime fares for the same journey.

So at times when only the Anytime Single tickets are valid, which seem to be earlyish weekday arrivals into London, could one legitimately travel via Derby on the cheaper route "Any Permitted" Anytime Single ticket?

 

[Haywain]

So at times when only the Anytime Single tickets are valid, which seem to be earlyish weekday arrivals into London, could one legitimately travel via Derby on the cheaper route "Any Permitted" Anytime Single ticket?

I think you need to check the prices - Any Permitted is considerably more expensive than Via Derby.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I think you need to check the prices - Any Permitted is considerably more expensive than Via Derby.

Ta. £146.40 SOS via Derby vs £188.30 SOS route "Any Permitted". So, that's a 'yes' then!