Provocative Thameslink Gateline/Revenue Staff

[Alteran Ancient]

So this happened a few weeks ago, but I thought it was something worth mentioning.

A few weeks ago, I purchased an Off-peak Return (+Railcard) from Tunbridge Wells to Stratford International (via London) loaded onto an SE Key Smartcard. I loaded it up via my phone and travelled via the following route...

• Tunbridge Wells to London Bridge (SE)
• London Bridge to St Pancras (TL)
• St Pancras to Stratford International (SE HS)

This was also the route that was suggested by the Journey Planner whilst booking the fare.

So anyway, when I was making the change at St Pancras, the Thameslink gateline wouldn't let me out to make my way over to the Southeastern platforms. So I went to speak to the staff at the side of the gates who immediately became confrontational and started asking me where I'd come from. I told them "Tunbridge Wells", which apparently made them suspicious and one of the two gentlemen "didn't believe me".

So I said "Fine, read my smartcard. It will tell you exactly where I touched in." Which they did. After about a minute of looking at my ticket and talking to each other, the decided to let me out. Once I was through, I said to the less confrontational one "I don't think your colleague's attitude was very professional." and promptly continued with my journey.

The SE Gateline also didn't let me back in, so I once again had to speak to someone, but they were much better about it! "That's strange, but yep, Tunbridge Wells to Stratford. This route makes sense!" and they let me though without quarrel.

So I must ask, is this a common issue with Thameslink Gateline and Revenue staff?

 

[island]

In all these cases, there’s 3 sides to the story, your side, their side, and what actually happened.

As for the gatelines, they only do what they’re programmed to do. I find smartcards tend to get rejected more than paper tickets do. Others’ experiences may vary. But assuming your ticket was not routed ✠NOT VALID ON HS1 I see no issues with validity.

 

[Titfield]

In what way were they confrontational?

 

[Bletchleyite]

In what way were they confrontational?

The phrase "I don't believe you"?

Clearly it's valid for gateline staff not to believe someone, but that isn't an appropriate way to speak to someone even if you don't. "Would you mind waiting here a few seconds while we confirm where you touched in, sir?" is how you speak to someone in such a circumstance.

 

[Tallguy]

If you are unhappy with the levels of customer service received then by all means complain about the members of staff involved, but if this was a few weeks ago then you have probably left it a bit late.

Since my altercation at Waterloo I haven’t come across any bad customer service on the railways, in fact quite the opposite on LNER.

If anything like this happens in the future then you may wish to consider making an audio or video recording of the incident with your mobile phone.

 

[AlterEgo]

If anything like this happens in the future then you may wish to consider making an audio or video recording of the incident with your mobile phone.

I think life is much easier if you accept that 1 in 100 people you deal with are going to be difficult or tiresome and keep your phone in your pocket, stay cool and just roll your eyes when you're done.

Whipping out a phone or video camera risks escalating a pretty banal, eye-rolling interaction into something even more tiresome.

 

[OldNick]

If anything like this happens in the future then you may wish to consider making an audio or video recording of the incident with your mobile phone.

I would be wary of taking that approach - I don't see how you can have a reasonable conversation with anyone whilst simultaneously recording it on your phone. I would say it is highly confrontational in itself, like you are expecting something to happen, and likely to escalate things.

 

[Hadders]

I think it’s far better to submit an official complaint afterwards rather than start recording conversations at a gateline.

 

[ExRes]

If anything like this happens in the future then you may wish to consider making an audio or video recording of the incident with your mobile phone.

At what stage would you suggest recording? either you record every conversation from the start or you record after whatever has upset you has been said

 

[Titfield]

The phrase "I don't believe you"?

Clearly it's valid for gateline staff not to believe someone, but that isn't an appropriate way to speak to someone even if you don't. "Would you mind waiting here a few seconds while we confirm where you touched in, sir?" is how you speak to someone in such a circumstance.

But that phrase was after quote

So I went to speak to the staff at the side of the gates who immediately became confrontational and started asking me where I'd come from

The use of the word immediately suggests "the confrontation" started at the outset ie was not an escalation. The next part of the sentence suggests that the asking of where the OP had come from was confrontational.

As Island states

In all these cases, there’s 3 sides to the story, your side, their side, and what actually happened.

As for the gatelines, they only do what they’re programmed to do. I find smartcards tend to get rejected more than paper tickets do. Others’ experiences may vary. But assuming your ticket was not routed ✠NOT VALID ON HS1 I see no issues with validity.

 

[Vespa]

Problem witn official complaints process, it's designed to block and divert, you will only get an industry standard response and nothing will be done especially as you need to identify the staff in question.

Going via the company social seems to have more of an effect as other people can see it especially with a video upload, the evidence would be indisputable.

 

[pdeaves]

'started asking me where I'd come from' is quite reasonable, in my view. It's a way of starting a conversation, to focus the mind on how to assist. While well-meaning, customers (whether rail travellers, people in shops, etc.) often start the conversation/request/complaint at the wrong part of the story and directing the conversation to the beginning can be an easier way to follow what's happened, what's expected, etc.

Maybe the original poster took something as confrontational when it wasn't (at least originally intended).

 

[Alteran Ancient]

Maybe the original poster took something as confrontational when it wasn't (at least originally intended).

No, it was confrontational. The inspector's tone and body language was intended to intimidate. Their colleague came off as far less intimidating.

I don't mind being asked where I've travelled from, but when they start implying that they don't believe me or that I'm bring untruthful in the fact of something that in my opinion was entirely factually valid, that's when I start having a problem with someone's attitude.

 

[Paul Jones 88]

Once in the past, I had a similar experience but at a different location, I was in a rush to get to an important meeting so because I knew that my ticket was entirely correct, I jumped over the barrier and just kept moving, I don't think that I should be held up while going about my lawful business when I haven't done anything wrong.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Once in the past, I had a similar experience but at a different location, I was in a rush to get to an important meeting so because I knew that my ticket was entirely correct, I jumped over the barrier and just kept moving, I don't think that I should be held up while going about my lawful business when I haven't done anything wrong.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/railway-byelaws/railway-byelaws:

9. Stations and railway premises​

(...)
2. where the entrance to or exit from any platform or station is via a manned or an automatic ticket barrier no person shall enter or leave the station, except with permission from an authorised person, without passing through the barrier in the correct manner

 

[Tractor86]

Once in the past, I had a similar experience but at a different location, I was in a rush to get to an important meeting so because I knew that my ticket was entirely correct, I jumped over the barrier and just kept moving, I don't think that I should be held up while going about my lawful business when I haven't done anything wrong.

So you risked being stopped and delayed even more.

 

[island]

At what stage would you suggest recording?

Not at all. It’s a guaranteed way of escalating and inflaming situations and making a minor dispute into a major scene.

 

[Vespa]

Not at all. It’s a guaranteed way of escalating and inflaming situations and making a minor dispute into a major scene.

Yet the revenue staff have body worn cameras

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Yet the revenue staff have body worn cameras

Revenue staff are interacting with passengers all day, and (I guess) experience shows that a significant proportion of those passengers will turn difficult. Do any of us (leaving aside those who work for the railways) spend all day interacting with railway staff, and of those who do, is their experience that a significant proportion of the railway staff will turn difficult?

 

[AlterEgo]

Revenue staff are interacting with passengers all day, and (I guess) experience shows that a significant proportion of those passengers will turn difficult. Do any of us (leaving aside those who work for the railways) spend all day interacting with railway staff, and of those who do, is their experience that a significant proportion of the railway staff will turn difficult?

It’s not the point. Revenue staff turning on a camera say it almost always de-escalates a situation.

A passenger declaring they are now beginning to record a conversation will, on the other hand, cause a scene.

That’s just how these things work.

 

[jon0844]

Yet the revenue staff have body worn cameras

Which they activate and then tell you they've activated.

As said so well above, when do you get the camera out? Before you've said a word and not even established if there's a reason to film, or after something happens that you feel should have been filmed?

Maybe everyone should wear their own bodycam that's recording every single interaction with other people.

 

[AM9]

It’s not the point. Revenue staff turning on a camera say it almost always de-escalates a situation.

A passenger declaring they are now beginning to record a conversation will, on the other hand, cause a scene.

That’s just how these things work.

They are fair enough comments for many situations, but where a passenger suffers actual loss, either through the gateline refusing to accept a valid ticket and retaining it even causing a significant delay resulting in a missed connection or external appointment, making a formal complaint is quite likely to fall on stony ground if the member of staff denies what was said by either party. There have been repots of particular gatelines here where it seems that they make the rules up on the fly. If there is a presumption that in any conflict, the passenger is always misinformed/breaking the rules/lying, then does everbody wronged just shrug their shoulders and walk away because "that's just how things work".
I might add I have never had a direct conflict at a gateline that has left me in dispute of what was said. Nor to I make a habit of travelling where validity might be an issue.

 

[AlterEgo]

They are fair enough comments for many situations, but where a passenger suffers actual loss, either through the gateline refusing to accept a valid ticket and retaining it even causing a significant delay resulting in a missed connection or external appointment, making a formal complaint is quite likely to fall on stony ground if the member of staff denies what was said by either party.

I know this is the least helpful answer anyone can give, but "that's life".

Filming every social interaction you have is not the answer.

 

[AM9]

I know this is the least helpful answer anyone can give, but "that's life".

Filming every social interaction you have is not the answer.

Then maybe if it is felt that it might get to such a situation how about asking them to put their body cam on? I assume that if they are official issue, so does the wearer have the facility to erase things that he/she doesn't like?

 

[jon0844]

Then maybe if it is felt that it might get to such a situation how about asking them to put their body cam on? I assume that if they are official issue, so does the wearer have the facility to erase things that he/she doesn't like?

No, and I believe the footage can only be downloaded in specific situations too - by someone else. I imagine this will be relating to an assault or other crime, not to deal with a ticketing issue or to simply see who said what.

Of course, if someone is refusing to give details or answer questions relating to an offence that might lead to a prosecution, that is presumably grounds to activate the camera.

The other party whipping out their phone to record and then edit it down to something to put on TikTok or Twitter, or send to the Daily Mail, presumably doesn't have to follow any rules.

 

[WesternLancer]

The other party whipping out their phone to record and then edit it down to something to put on TikTok or Twitter, or send to the Daily Mail, presumably doesn't have to follow any rules.

One of the downsides of living in a democratic free country I guess....

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Aug 2021 ==

I know this is the least helpful answer anyone can give, but "that's life".

Filming every social interaction you have is not the answer.

Indeed - tho it's pretty common to find appeals (by the police) that say 'if anyone has any dashcam footage....', not quite the same but it's on the trajectory - so whilst I agree it's not the answer, I suspect / fear it may become increasingly common.

 

[Vespa]

Switching on the camera can also cause the gateline staff to modify their behavior as much as them switching on their camera to record interactions, quite often if they're going to be rude and obnoxious, you couldn't really escalate it any further than they could already have beyond awkward.

I would like Blackpool gateline staff to be recorded for their famous obnoxious behavior, even Geoff Marshall commented on it

 

[BluePenguin]

I would like Blackpool gateline staff to be recorded for their famous obnoxious behavior, even Geoff Marshall commented on it

I think I might have some Go Pro footage from my holiday there back in June. I’ll have to have a watch of it. Unfortunately they were not rude to me so. I might go back again under cover to film their antics