Off-Peak Return

[carton]

Is it ok to buy an off-peak return from Bournemouth to Penrith then on the journey back get on at a station further down the line (Preston)?

 

[142094]

Yes, although there are some restrictions on what train you can get:

If you have a ticket ROUTE +LONDON:

RETURN TRAVEL
You may travel on any train
that is scheduled to ARRIVE_as
shown below:

DEPART: LONDON EUSTON
At or after 0905.

ARRIVE: LONDON EUSTON
At or after 1005

DEPART: MILTON KEYNES CENTRAL
At or after 0900

ARRIVE: MILTON KEYNES CENTRAL
At or after 1020

DEPART: WATFORD JUNCTION
At or after 0900

ARRIVE: WATFORD JUNCTION
At or after 1020

No Break of Journey allowed on
outward travel, except to
change trains.

If you have a ticket route NOT LONDON:

Restriction : 2T
Return Travel
By any train except those
timed to depart
Mondays-Fridays before 0415.

 

[Oracle]

I miss the Scottish direct trains...I used to need to go to Penrith to get to my HQ in Appleby and now it means going up to Euston or change at Birmingham NS. The former can however be very pleasant if you pick the right (Down) train from Euston...the one that I was on non-stopped quite a lot and got me to Penrith in record time. The journey back via Birmingham was a disaster!

 

[carton]

Thanks, 142094. The route I'm taking involves a change at Birmingham New Street. I read about a couple being fined recently for getting off their train at an earlier stop, so I was worried I might be fined for getting on at a later stop on my journey back because of the terms and conditions of the off peak return.

Oracle, am I right in thinking there used to be a direct train from the Bournemouth/Poole area to Aberdeen? If so, when was this service discontinued?

 

[yorkie]

I read about a couple being fined recently for getting off their train at an earlier stop, so I was worried I might be fined for getting on at a later stop on my journey back because of the terms and conditions of the off peak return.

I very much doubt anyone has been fined for this. People have been charged an additional fare for finishing short, in one case a couple paid up but moaned about it, however they were on a Megatrain ticket, where it is made very clear that it is banned, so that case isn't particularly relevant to National Rail ticketing. They were also on a penalty fare train, although that may or may not be relevant. The only other case I'm aware of involved the Prof from Durham, when EC staff allegedly didn't adhere to policy of letting him through and charged him a ticket (although some EC staff dispute that, saying that their staff would do this) anyway, whatever happened, he didn't pay up front, and was issued with an Unpaid Fare Notice, which East Coast cancelled immediately, and apologised for this.

Starting short when banned is different, and you could be refused entry if you refuse to buy an additional ticket, at the barrier (some people say that a ticket from the station you join at to the origin means you have paid the correct fare, and you can then simply not bother double-backing, however that is a debatable point).

It's a can of worms that has been done to death on this forum (try a search).

As you are on the return portion of an Off Peak ticket, you should have no problems at all.

The incidents that you have heard about were, almost certainly, on Advance / Megatrain tickets.

Oracle, am I right in thinking there used to be a direct train from the Bournemouth/Poole area to Aberdeen? If so, when was this service discontinued?

I am sure there would have been! There have been many changes over the years, with less and less direct trains and more emphasis on 'clockface' timetables where trains go to the same places each hour (or half hour etc) and you have to change.

 

[carton]

I very much doubt anyone has been fined for this. People have been charged an additional fare for finishing short, in one case a couple paid up but moaned about it, however they were on a Megatrain ticket, where it is made very clear that it is banned, so that case isn't particularly relevant to National Rail ticketing. They were also on a penalty fare train, although that may or may not be relevant.

Yes, that is the couple I was talking about. However, it does say in the news item that they were fined £114, twice the price of two standard fares.
http://www.thisishampshire.net/news/8376765.Couple_fined___114_for_leaving_train_too_early/

As you are on the return portion of an Off Peak ticket, you should have no problems at all.

Thanks for putting my mind at rest!

 

[MikeWh]

So, here we have concrete proof that the imposition of rules which appear illogical to the man in the street is potentially putting him off using the train at all. You see, a few weeks down the line the detail that it was a specific sort of ticket has been forgotten. What's been remembered, unsurprisingly, is that the 'offence' was not using all of a ticket and the punishment was a massive 'fine'. Yes, I know 'fine' is the wrong word, but that is what it feels like to the ordinary man in the street.

This is looking like a massive own-goal to the overall railway industry!

 

[yorkie]

Yes, that is the couple I was talking about. However, it does say in the news item that they were fined £114, twice the price of two standard fares.
http://www.thisishampshire.net/news/8376765.Couple_fined___114_for_leaving_train_too_early/

Yes but believe me, they were not fined. They were asked to pay a fare, and they did. Had they refused to pay SWT might have prosecuted them, or they might not. If they had, a court might have fined them, or they might not. I would like to think not, but we will never know as it didn't get to that stage.

Thanks for putting my mind at rest!

No problem

So, here we have concrete proof that the imposition of rules which appear illogical to the man in the street is potentially putting him off using the train at all. You see, a few weeks down the line the detail that it was a specific sort of ticket has been forgotten. What's been remembered, unsurprisingly, is that the 'offence' was not using all of a ticket and the punishment was a massive 'fine'. Yes, I know 'fine' is the wrong word, but that is what it feels like to the ordinary man in the street.

I totally agree. A fare as high as £50 for such a journey, or £180 for London to Manchester, feels like a fine and it will be treated as such.

This is looking like a massive own-goal to the overall railway industry!

Yes, it's an own goal to the whole industry, thanks to SWT!

Why aren't the sensible TOCs demanding in ATOC meetings that companies like SWT stop their anti-passenger crusades?

SWT won't give a damn if the industry suffers, because they will rake in the cash on season ticket holders from affluent areas into London who have no choice but to travel with them. It's not the same as a businessman from Manchester who may choose to fly to London instead, or a family from York who may choose to go somewhere other than London, or a student from Peterborough who may choose the FCC Only ticket to save money. SWT can afford to put people off, as they'll rake it in regardless. Other TOCs that depend more on leisure travel or who are in competition with airlines may suffer as a result of decisions made by the likes of SWT that put the industry in a bad light.

The minority of guards and RPIs who act in a way that is against the interests of customers end up getting a disproportionate amount of publicity compared to the vast majority who follow the rules and/or apply common sense, as appropriate. The majority do not deserve to be tarnished with the same brush. But unless the bad apples are weeded out, sadly the public's perception of rail travel will continue to be poor.

 

[bb21]

Oracle, am I right in thinking there used to be a direct train from the Bournemouth/Poole area to Aberdeen? If so, when was this service discontinued?

There was. Going back to 2000, the Aberdeen - Poole service arrived at Poole at around 21.30. There was also another service originating from Glasgow Central which ran 2 hours earlier and also terminating at Poole. I made a few journeys that year between Bournemouth and Glasgow Central, normally returning from Glasgow on said service at iirc 11.38.

As an aside I checked NFM07 for the fare. It gave me Bournemouth - Aberdeen SVR Y-P Route +Any Permitted as £182.10. I also had a look at my old ticket from November 2000. The same ticket cost £76.35. Increase in exactly 10 years is 138.5% - an average of over 9% per year. Ouch!